Climategate, What do you think?

[carbore]

Im surprised that no one else has posted about this.

What do you think about climategate http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/30/crugate_analysis/  baically the fact that the "highly influential" Climate research unit haev been "accused" or even "Discovered" via hacked emaisl/reportts of sexing up climate research.


The head of CRU has steped down today.

Lots of very interesting quotes about ahat he said, lots of legitimate argument about out of contexts etc, but still very hard to ignore.

[crazymac]

It just confirms to me what i've always thought!

The government in successive years have latched onto these people as a way of getting more revenue from taxes etc and not allowed any challenge to their theories.

Yes the earth "may" be warming up, but it has historically done this, so whats the problem?

[dxmedia]

It's doing it at an unpresedented speed.

If it's doing it.

[mike142sl]

It just confirms to me what i've always thought!

The government in successive years have latched onto these people as a way of getting more revenue from taxes etc and not allowed any challenge to their theories.

Yes the earth "may" be warming up, but it has historically done this, so whats the problem?

Not at the rate it has been doing since the late 70s, and anyway, if you're going to use an argument like this where are you getting your evidence from - the scientists per chance? :doh:

[dxmedia]

It just confirms to me what i've always thought!

The government in successive years have latched onto these people as a way of getting more revenue from taxes etc and not allowed any challenge to their theories.

Yes the earth "may" be warming up, but it has historically done this, so whats the problem?

Not at the rate it has been doing since the late 70s, and anyway, if you're going to use an argument like this where are you getting your evidence from - the scientists per chance? :doh:

The problem with the CRU is that they wouldn't release their data for other scientists to verify. The situation is that the CRU have said 'x' is happening, and not provided any citation.

The released emails (which have been veified by the guys who's just stood down as being authentic) show lovely snippets such as requests that the original data is destoryed and conformation that some of the figures for presentation are just fabrications.

The big issues is the hockey stick effect where the global tempereature is increasing exponentially, the raw data for this is a fabrication. Also the CRU are at the global fourfront of climate change science.

[Disco Matt]

My main arguments are with the evidence that has come to light with the leaked emails. There's plenty to suggest data being manipulated and attempts to ignore freedom of information requests.

The attempts to squash any opposing viewpoints are not remotely scientific. If the evidence is so perfect and convincing then why are they labelling those who disagree "deniers" (implication being that they're as academically and socially unacceptable as holocaust deniers)? Generally science progresses by adapting theories as more evidence comes to light rather than trying to stamp on opposing evidence. If there is an overwhelming pile of evidence in favour of man-made global warming then why do they feel the need to smear and belittle those who disagree? Let the facts do the talking. 

The efforts visible in some of these emails would be a better fit for a fundamentalist religious group rather than a supposedly scientific body!

I would also point out that certain elements of the media are equally guilty of ignoring data that doesn't fit their editorial line. The Independent, for example, printed a gleeful piece about the demise of the Scottish ski trade shortly before two or three excellent years for the industry (which oddly enough they didn't comment on!)

[beast5680]

be nice if it does warm up a bit and stop raining :D

[wormster]

Ho Hum, here we go again.................

We've been raping teh planet senseless since Abrahm Derby started producing worught iron in Colabrookdale.
Before that MOST industry was small, self contained AND sustainable.
We are in a climaticaly "warm" period, that is to say that IT will either, get warmer, causing the ice caps to melt and sea levels to rise, OR, cool down, letting the ice caps spread once again.

WHICHEVER way you look at it mankind is on a hiding to nuffing, all teh postulation by govenments, scientists, eco freaks and the rest is just hot air.

There's enough oil/gas to last another couple of hundred years! - GO and DRIVE baby.

To quote Groucho Marx: I not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it.   

[gtomo2]

Would these be the same people that told us that we are all going to die because of using tins with cfc in that has made a hole in the ozone and now because the said hole in the ozone is getting smaller the ice caps are melting and we are all going to die...........

Oh and just a qucik one for you all imagine a cube of ice in a drink is the ice cap. When you put water in the glass put the ice cube in mark were the water is, then when the ice cube has melted mark were the water level is and hay presto as if by magic the water level will be the same........

The world is changing but rember we are in a new part of the universe with new magnatic fields pulling at the earth so strange things are going to happen. Its called the way of life in time everything dieds.

[carbore]

If they really gave a dam

A ban on building any important building (school, hospital etc) less than say 5m above sea level (or similar)
Relocate significant business in London to outside any risk area "protected" by the thames flood barrier (Finance and Government etc)
A ban on building ANY housing development over 3 houses on land known to have flooded x times in the last 100 years
A ban on all imports not produced in factories governed by the same H&S/Emissions legislations as the UK
A school children must go to their closest school, ending the "choice" sham and forcing them to make ALL schools equally good
Relocate as much as possible up North or Cornwall , helping regeneration, removing pressure on South East infrastructure (and so I dont have to commute to London!)
End the concept of "farm diversification" growing food should be all they need to do
Make all (reasonable) gardening products VAT free (Seeds, sustainable compost, non-crap tools, etc)
Ban public funded wildlife programs that proudly say that they took four years to film, traveled the world, and then say I cant drive down to the shops in a 4x4 or everything they show on TV will DIE, Just run repeats of "Wildlife on 1" you sodding hypocrites.

[Saffy]

Oh and just a qucik one for you all imagine a cube of ice in a drink is the ice cap. When you put water in the glass put the ice cube in mark were the water is, then when the ice cube has melted mark were the water level is and hay presto as if by magic the water level will be the same........

 that icecube in glass argument only works because the ice is in already floating in water where as one of the polar icecaps is mostly sitting on top of a land mass. So sit your icecube in the glass on a lillypad and when it melts the water will rise.

[dxmedia]

That'll be down south - that ones on landmass.

[V8MoneyPit]

And it is not srictly true..... ice is one of those rare occurances where the solid form is of greater volume than the liquid form IIRC.

[Saffy]

And it is not srictly true..... ice is one of those rare occurances where the solid form is of greater volume than the liquid form IIRC.

that's why the water doesn't rise when the cube melts in the glass, but when cube is sitting on an island it will rise.

[Jas278]

My opinion           


                               It begins with B and ends with an S                     .....     

[Bishops Finger]

Where the f is Colabrookdale. ?????????

[dxmedia]

 :roll: :roll:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=colabrookdale

[Saffy]

:roll: :roll:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=colabrookdale

screen coffee spat

[trecfive]

:roll: :roll:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=colabrookdale

That link takes you to Coalbrookdale, not Colabrookdale, is that where they make coke?

[Sider]

My main arguments are with the evidence that has come to light with the leaked emails. There's plenty to suggest data being manipulated and attempts to ignore freedom of information requests.

The attempts to squash any opposing viewpoints are not remotely scientific. If the evidence is so perfect and convincing then why are they labelling those who disagree "deniers" (implication being that they're as academically and socially unacceptable as holocaust deniers)? Generally science progresses by adapting theories as more evidence comes to light rather than trying to stamp on opposing evidence. If there is an overwhelming pile of evidence in favour of man-made global warming then why do they feel the need to smear and belittle those who disagree? Let the facts do the talking. 

The efforts visible in some of these emails would be a better fit for a fundamentalist religious group rather than a supposedly scientific body!

I would also point out that certain elements of the media are equally guilty of ignoring data that doesn't fit their editorial line. The Independent, for example, printed a gleeful piece about the demise of the Scottish ski trade shortly before two or three excellent years for the industry (which oddly enough they didn't comment on!)

Just to give you 2 names: Galileo and Miguel Servet (or Michael Servet for you'll heathens :D)

The scientific community is affected by inmovilism in the same manner as the rest of society is. You really have to hit the stablishment with a big sledgehammer to even get them to admit that there's the remotest, tiniest possibility they are wrong. And if they are getting paid for being wrong, then you better get yourself one of those big jackhammers mounted on a 360, and a lot of patience.

[Manicminer]

Global Warming Scientists from all over the World are being paid by the British Taxpayers. They will say what the government wants them to say as long as they can keep pocketing the vast amount of money.

The non paid scientists are more worried of a large global cooling within the next 3 years.

What's on the way is a 'Global Government' and things like this are designed to keep our eyes off the ball until it's too late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvcuylMrkXk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2KVuwaIH70

The next step is a global financial collapse which was started deliberately oh ... about 18 months ago

[Bishops Finger]

Flip...never knew Coalbrookdale was in the shire :lol:

Wonders off muttering why was Abrahm Darby named after a local school... :lol:

[Chris Putt]

Climate change is a known phenomena.

There is evidence, I feel you have to be a little naive to deny it- this graph pretty much says it all.....
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/images/historical03.gif

I strongly suggest that those of you saying that it is a hoax look at the other side of things- go and rent yourself a copy of Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient truth' to have a look at the flipside of propaganda. WHILST there is a lot of 'showbiz' in this film, the evidence is hard to ignore.

The comments along the lines of 'the earth temperature goes up and down' well yes, it is cyclical BUT again, looking at the evidence this is the largest ever mean increase.


The melting of the ice caps, ice in water will not cause sea levels to rise, however ice on land will cause a mean rise. (somewhere in one of my old assignments I have the data but don't have it to hand)

Now, I know that there is a lot of media scaremongering, and equally there are the extremists but the evidence is very very difficult to ignore, however we do know the climate is changing- we have both numerate data of temperatures, rainfalls, receeding glaciers and polar ice as well as ecological evidence in the changing of distribution of species globally.

As a relaxed environmentalist, I look on whats happening as frankly- future generations are 8oll0%ed. The earth WILL find its way back to its natural stable state through feedback mechanisms (look it up- interesting theories) we have likely gone past the point at which our intervention can change what is going to happen to the earth.

If anyone would like to discuss this any further please add to this post- its a compelling and much misunderstood topic- Im happy to discuss in further detail any of the above.

Chris

[Disco Matt]

The conspiracy theories are entertaining but I have to follow the old saying:

Never put down to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity

The global financial collapse was caused by a mix of people spending money they didn't have to buy things they didn't actually need, and a few overpaid idiots high up in banking firms taking stupid risks with other people's money. Looking at the culture of these offices I'm rather surprised it hadn't happened before. They need fewer 911-driving red braces wearers and more Captain Mainwarings to stabilise things.

There is a lot of money being made in the "green" area. Just take a look at how formerly respected organisations such as Greenpeace have now turned into frankly creepy media-manipulating groups who seem to care less about fine details than about moulding public opinion to match theirs. Not global government so much as a lot of groups and companies depending on climate change for their income...

[crazymac]

Climate change is a known phenomena.

There is evidence, I feel you have to be a little naive to deny it- this graph pretty much says it all.....
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/images/historical03.gif.

I'm by no means an expert on this, BUT.............................................

Why did the power mongers change the name from "Global Warming" to Climate change?? Because for every piece of so called evidence of warming, there is another of cooling or status quo!

The "evidence" being produced by the universities has been claimed to be fraudulant, just this last month Emails from a prominent British climate research center have been published with statements in them about a plan to "hide the decline" in temperatures and an e-mail wrote in 1999: "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd [sic] from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."

Fact is, if the power mongers agree that there is only cyclical temp change then they will have to stop taxing us poor mugs for it! They're not about to do that are they??

They are trying to encourage recycleing, but then want us all to buy new cars!! The new cars "may" be less polluting individually, but what about the emmissions producing them?? Conveniently not talked about! Electric cars will save the environment?? But you still need to produce that electricity somewhere!! Just means that the cities "may" get a little bit cleaner! Look up Sudbury in Canada, its dead from acid rain from the mining of nickel used in the Prius batteries!! But the Prius is an environmentally friendly car?? Don't make me laugh!! My Discovery is more environmentally friendly than that. It is 18 years old, gets serviced regularly and uses recycled (2nd hand) parts where possible, THAT is better for the environment!

I strongly suggest that those of you saying that it is a hoax look at the other side of things- go and rent yourself a copy of Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient truth' to have a look at the flipside of propaganda. WHILST there is a lot of 'showbiz' in this film, the evidence is hard to ignore..

This program was TOTALLY debunked by "The great global warming swindle" program, using prominant scientists as well!!

The comments along the lines of 'the earth temperature goes up and down' well yes, it is cyclical BUT again, looking at the evidence this is the largest ever mean increase.

Who's evidence? Scientists that recieve their grants from governments! Conflict of interests??

Now, I know that there is a lot of media scaremongering, and equally there are the extremists but the evidence is very very difficult to ignore, however we do know the climate is changing- we have both numerate data of temperatures, rainfalls, receeding glaciers and polar ice as well as ecological evidence in the changing of distribution of species globally.

Again, who's evidence??

If anyone would like to discuss this any further please add to this post- its a compelling and much misunderstood topic- Im happy to discuss in further detail any of the above.

Your right, it is compelling and much misunderstood, buy only because of the hype and scaremongering from the media and governments!

[Bob696]

I strongly suggest that those of you saying that it is a hoax look at the other side of things- go and rent yourself a copy of Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient truth' to have a look at the flipside of propaganda. WHILST there is a lot of 'showbiz' in this film, the evidence is hard to ignore.

The comments along the lines of 'the earth temperature goes up and down' well yes, it is cyclical BUT again, looking at the evidence this is the largest ever mean increase.

You are aware of course that this film has been effectively banned in schools  because it has been proved (in a court of law) that it is fabrication and full of untruths (to me and you that means it is full of lies).

Al Gore makes money by selling carbon offset so is hardly impartial.

In roman britain they grew vines and olives as far north as york

Despite popular belief Greenland wasn't called Greenland to get people to move there.

During the period all the great medieval cathedrals were built in europe farmers were getting 2 crops of cereals per year.

Geologically speaking our current age is unusual in that we have a northern ice cap. For the vast majority of the earths existence no northern ice cap has existed.

[muddy90]

one or two volcano's having problems can do more damage to the planet that we ever can do , i think

[Saffy]

one or two volcano's having problems can do more damage to the planet that we ever can do , i think

yeah my mrs is like that too

[dxmedia]

one or two volcano's having problems can do more damage to the planet that we ever can do , i think

yeah my mrs is like that too

That's not taking into account the oxydization of peat. That's the whole of the north of sctland, the fens, large chunks of the moors, holland... just quickly off the top of my head.

[lambert]

quantam mechanics suggests that 1 thing can be in two or more places at one time. this allows us to see the fundamental problem with nature; it is mind bendingly complicated and as such anyone toting a simple solution is quite possibly motivated by some form of self interest be it power or avarice or ego.