oh bother, 200tdi disco motor

[NiteMare]

tootling home at around 55mph last night (10pm) and suddenly i heard a "thwack" and my engine died (big yellow taxi time  )...

no loud bangs or clattering just the "thwack", i suspect it was my cambelt snapped, immediately i dipped the clutch and coasted to a halt, torch under the bonnet and no evidence of damage externally ...

now not having worked on one of these engines before i need a little advice from the experienced for things/damage to look for/expect ...

i  believe i have to check the pushrods for bends (is it likely to have damaged any valves)  ??

i think i've heard talk of cam followers getting damaged, is it likely and how do i check ?? can they be changed without lifting the head ??

i need the quick and dirty answers to my fault finding and potential problem areas

this engine is in my old 88" (daily driver) so getting at everything is going to be easy enough (wings and grille will be removed) i just want to know what to look for before buying anything and making multiple bus trips for parts

all and any "knowledgeable" advice appreciated, generics are no help, i'm experienced enough with spanners so won't struggle with this i just need the "knowing" to advise

Thanks in advance

[Saffy]

if it were me I'd first be looking through timing plug holes/inspection covers to try and see if belt intact or not. Removing rocker cover looking any signs of damage, see if engine rotated freely with spanner on crank (not forcing) see if rockers move.

[stretchy]

im breaking a 200tdi so if you need the push rod set etc pm me

stretchy

[ChrisW70]

9 times out of 10 it will just bend a few of the push rods although it can snap one or some of the rocker arms. Not heard of it doing a follower before but there's always a first time.
Easy check is to take the oil filler cap off and get someone to flick the engine over so you can see if the rockers are moving or not, not likely to do any more damage as that would have happened when the belt went.

I'm only up the road from you, if you need anything picking up let me know.

[NiteMare]

Thanks for the reassurance on the damage limitations Chris  :dance: fingers crossed that'll be all i find ...

also thanks for the offer of parts collection but i've managed to scrounge the loan of an LDV pickup for my shopping trip(s) so that's saved me a bit of hassle

i've a spare parts engine that i bought last year so if i've got anything broken/bent, with luck i'll be able to rob them from that one, ordered my cambelt and tensioners via a mate in the trade so should be collecting those about lunchtime ...

all i've got to do now is rig up a bit of a work shelter (canvas and scaff' poles) and crack on with the job...

finally if it turns out for the worst i can fall back on robbing the engine i have/had planned for going in my 109 when i build it

all i need now is for the sun to put in an appearance  :roll:  :lol:

[NiteMare]

ok i've started stripping it all out and found this  :roll: ...



all cleaned out now and i've found that the crank seal has been replaced at some time and is nowhere near square so i'm guessing that is why i have the accumulated muck(there was an awful lot of it), i've now got to figure out how to pull the toothed pulley off the crank so i can replace the seal (i'll guess the genuine tool is damned expensive)

shiney



lifted the rocker cover and rocker gear, found that i have three push rods definitely bent and will be checking the rest carefully in daylight tomorrow once i've been and bought my cover, waterpump and crankshaft seals (already got my timing belt and tensioners)

has anyone got a link to a good diagram of the camshaft timing marks, my pulley appears to have two dots on it  :doh: i've put the crank keyway up to the arrow just got to find my 9.5mm drill to lock the pump

[Range Rover Blues]

The fuel pump and camshaft are located using dowels, IIRC 9.5mm for the fuel pump.  The crank is timed up using a notch that is visible through the drain plughole in the bellhousing, on the outside rim of the flywheel.

[jay2578]

is there not a very detailed thread somwhere on the site for timing belt change? sure i saw it the other day..... posted by solihull-mick??

[ChrisW70]

is there not a very detailed thread somwhere on the site for timing belt change? sure i saw it the other day..... posted by solihull-mick??

http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/topic,65553

[jay2578]

just found the one i thought was timing belt, but its cambelt on a 300tdi..... you get the idea though

[ChrisW70]

On these engine's the timing belt and cambelt mean the same thing don't they?!

The write up is for a 300 but once you're inside the belt chamber the principle is the same.

[jay2578]

 :oops:i think so :oops:

[NiteMare]

The fuel pump and camshaft are located using dowels, IIRC 9.5mm for the fuel pump.  The crank is timed up using a notch that is visible through the drain plughole in the bellhousing, on the outside rim of the flywheel.

unfortunately my engine is in an 88" Series chassis so i can't see the flywheel timing mark due to there being a crossmember in the way so i'm going to have to make do with the arrow on the front casting and the key in the crank  (i'll probably bore a hole thru my 109 crossmember and weld in a nice tube to facilitate locating pegs for possible future failures once i get into doing that conversion)

thanks for the link to that timing thread, it gives me more stuff to refer to, i may get that crank pulley if landrover tell me it fits and isn't stupidly expensive

[mark-d]

replace all the pushrods not just the ones that look bent, they only cost a couple of quid each. mine belt snapped at the same speed as yours and only bent 3-4 push rods.

[NiteMare]

ok we have a little progress and i took onboard a little modification that was suggested elsewhere and have fitted a breather to the top of the timing housing ..

pictures


fitted disco axle breather


then it was time to pull the bottom pulley, it was suggested that i use a prybar to drag it off but i thought that was a little aggressive, so took a small screwdriver and pushed it behind a gave a little twist, the pulley moved nice and easily enough for me to just pull it forward a little by hand until it stuck, i then used an ordinary three leg puller the drag it the rest of the way



oilseal was removed with a strip of 2mm steel bent into two hooks, wriggled into the seal, then with the aid of a lever quickly and cleanly tugged out, i couldn't photo putting the new one in but it was fitted carefully using a hammer and the old seal to site it nice and square

2mm steel  used


then it was onto setting the timing up, there's two dots on both the IP pulley and the cam pulley, the IP marks correspond with a pair on the housing mating face which allows you to fit the obligatory 9.5mm drill and then slacken the three bolts...
then the cam pulley lines up with one dot on the housing mating face and a rib in the centre of the housing ..
crank woodruff key lines up with an arrow in the casting....

fit new tensioner and roller and fight to fit the belt, check all marks are still correctly aligned, adjust tensioner and tighten the three bolts on the IP, now rotate the crank twice (clockwise) to ensure everything is still aligned and retension the belt



this is as far as i've got at present, still got to refit the rocker gear and check the gaps, i'm happy with my progress

[jay2578]

well done mate, looks like youre not to far off finishing :clap:

[Range Rover Blues]

i can't see the flywheel timing mark due to there being a crossmember in the way

Just double check that, IIRC the drain plug is in the very bottom of the bellhousing and looking up inot it you see the outer edge of the flywheel  It's incredibly important you have the negine sppot on at TDC because the valves pretty much touch the piston in a deisel engine, if the timing is off it could get nasty.

[NiteMare]

ok a little update, i've crawled in at 11.15pm totally cream crackered (last night was midnight) i'm very nearly finished just the bonnet to refit along with the airbox after i repair it and a couple of wires to reconnect (when i can get at my new connectors) i've had the engine running but of course everything sounds different and i was under a big canvas, so i've only run it for a minute or so but it's sounding ok, so first thing tomorrow is finish off the last bits and out for a quick road test to see if it still pulls as before...

i'll add pictures and any new info tomorrow as i'm too crackered to bother at the moment

[Axetamer]

I don't know if you can do this on a disco 200, but on my defender 200, I've modded the cover so I don't have to remove the water pump to do the belt, my timing case keeps filling up with mud from wading so I remove the cover every so often the clean it out

Imagine the picture is the cover, where the red line is I've jigsawed the lump off which fits behind the water pump so it can stay attached, the blue dots are new holes for m6 bolts and the dotted line is where I seal the gap with silicone.