Non-Sppeding related road safety article (SHOCK!)

[carbore]

Saw this on the BBC of all places

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10454356.stm

An article and report that make recommendations that are not just "people go too fast" and makes sensible recommendations for small scale road changes to improve safety.

For example A dual carriage way near where I live has a lay-by sited just over the brow of a hill party obscured by trees. People com over the hill and don't see people pulling out of the lay-by until very late. They put a Gatso there, but all that means is traffic in the outside lane slows so you cant pull out to let cars out the layby as you get bunching. If the lay-by had been put further away there would be no problems at all. Bad design especially as the road was built form scratch so there were no existing issues re boundaries/buildings etc.

[JumboBeef]

Yes, but: a driver should be able to stop within the distance they see to be clear.  Layby or not, you shouldn't hammer it over a brow of a hill/around a bend as there could be a breakdown there.

[dxmedia]

Only ever drive as fast as you can stop.  You'll never have an accident unless of outside influence.  Hardly rocket science.

[V8MoneyPit]

I agree. If everything, including road design, panders to the idiots it simply makes them more confident of their misguided immortality. We are right back to that old gem, "perceived safety". The safer you make people feel, the more likely they are to have a crash. I think there is plenty of evidence out there to back this up.

[SteveGoodz]

<climbs up on hobby horse>

The first thing to say is there is no such thing as a dangerous road. Unless an unforseable mechanical failure makes the vehicle uncontrolable then all "accidents" come down to one thing ... driver error. This may be an unpalatable comment but it is true.

There has been millions of pounds thrown at improving roads over the past two decades with virtually no decrease in the number of KSIs each year. What we have had is a staggering increase in the number of convictions for speeding due to the prevalence of safety sorry speed cameras. At the same time there has been a significant decrease in the number of prosecutions for driving offences that need an actual police officer to witness the offence.

Driver education has more effect on road safety than any other single factor ..

<puts hobby horse back in stable>

[landmannnn]

Are you sure?  I heard road deaths were 2200 last year compared to over 4000 in the early 90's.
Probably more down to abs and airbags than petty speed controls

[Disco Matt]

I really feel ABS should be the only standard driver aid, especially for new drivers. You don't need stability control or traction control, you should be able to use your right foot to control wheelspin and your backside to sense when the car is about to slide. That said, ABS is a menace on snow and ice so it would be nice to be able to turn it off in those conditions, you might stand a chance of stopping then rather than just carrying on with the pedal buzzing under your foot!

Make cars predictable and neutral handling, and train people better. Don't let them come through the driving test only able to drive by numbers and with no ability to feel the car. They shouldn't be thinking "The sign says to drive at 30mph around this bend", they should be thinking "looks sharp, ease off, brake, change down, settle the car into the bend".

[V8MoneyPit]

They shouldn't be thinking "The sign says to drive at 30mph around this bend", they should be thinking "looks sharp, ease off, brake, change down, settle the car into the bend".

My brother-in-law tends to take that approach. He scared the living daylights out of my wife when he drove her home down the lanes. Round blind bends on single track roads at totally inappropriate speeds. Sarah made a comment to him and his answer was "What's wrong? I'm well inside the speed limit"  :shock:

[carbore]

Ok I wont labour the point and I do sometimes think a darwinian approach to h&s is needed, but as with any form of education, driver education works for some but not for others, id rather sensible changes were made to roads where appropriate than become a victim of someone elses failed driving standards.

The example is this, next time you pull out of a petrol station onto a busy road, and you cant see because there is a blinking great price sign blocking the entire view. Honestly ask yourself if you will be thinking "What P@

[V8MoneyPit]

Indeed. You are, of course, quite right. It will never be possible to educate every road user to a better standard of driving. The challenge is finding a balance in spending public money on pandering to the people who are incompetent drivers and improving the training/testing procedure.

[jjsaul]

As someone who in 5 yrs of driving has done car, trailer and lgv tests, I don't think the current car driving test goes anywhere near to people being able to actually 'drive' a car. It simply seems to test their ability to operate the controls in a safe manner.
Admittedly this opens up a minefield of costs etc but making people experience a car on a skidpan, or the lack of visibility from larger vehicles etc etc might hopefully make some of them at least think a bit more about what everyone else on the road is up to, and also learn a bit more about dynamic vehicle control.
I'm lucky in that i've had many opportunities to do a lot of driving in different vehicles in varying conditions, and it all adds to the knowledge and experience required for driving. It just scares me when I realise that half my contemporaries (when i'm sat shotgun with them) fail to notice things and react accordingly in good time then it all comes as a shock when someone pulls out,...when will they teach people to look past the end of the bonnet?!

Just my 2p worth...

[SteveGoodz]

Are you sure?  I heard road deaths were 2200 last year compared to over 4000 in the early 90's.
Probably more down to abs and airbags than petty speed controls

Yes, I'm sure. The Government's own statistics show a fairly constant figure around the 3500 KSI mark. Some years have been a bit better and some worse.