petition

[JeepCher53]

4373 now,
kill joys are out again then!! :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

[gords]

5436 :D

[Guy90]

Not wanting to put the cat amonst the pidgeons but anyone actually read the underlying legslislation.

Following the DEFRA press release that everyone had got the wrong end of the stick I thought I would. I can't see the problem or what has particularly changed. Maybe someone with an knowledge of farming subsidies knows diffrent but I can't see the problem :?

[muddyweb]

Same here Guy, I have to be honest.

Sounds like a game of Chinese whispers going on with very few people actually reading what was written.

[hobbit]

Sounds like a game of Chinese whispers going on with very few people actually reading what was written.

Sound like politicians to me

[Henry Webster]

I have done a bit of reading around and can tell you that it is being taken very seriously.  What it comes down to is that DEFRA is advising that Motorsport is inconsistent with agriculture and therefore anyone allowing motorsport events (and that would include playdays) on their land might be jeopardising their subsidy.  Effectively this will cause the availability of land to drop yet further and the price to rise.

The MSA (Motor Sports Association) reckon it could threaten 50% of UK motorsport events.

I'm not usually a big fan of online petitions, but I feel that this issue warrants a response and the MSA and Motorsport News are encouraging people to sign up.  If you want to do some reading around then have a look at the links below.

Have a read of the links below and then sign the petition at
http://www.petitiononline.com/som/petition.html,this is a very serious threat!

This is a link to the latest news section of the Motor Sports Association website:

http://www.msauk.org/admin/news/ListNewsView.asp

LARA is the motoring organisations' Land Access and Recreation Association, who are helping to overturn the threat - lots of useful info here.

http://www.laragb.org/

Bike sport is also affected - this is the link to the Auto Cycle Union (Governing body for motorbike sport.)

http://www.acu.org.uk/

Regards

Henry

[muddyweb]

I have done a bit of reading around and can tell you that it is being taken very seriously.  What it comes down to is that DEFRA is advising that Motorsport is inconsistent with agriculture and therefore anyone allowing motorsport events (and that would include playdays) on their land might be jeopardising their subsidy.  

Yes.... but before anyone starts ringing alarm bells, you need to know what proportion of land currently in use for motorsport is currently in the subsidy scheme.  None of ours is, so it won't make the slightest difference to events here.

I'm not saying we shouldn't take the issue seriously, but I seem to remember the harbingers of doom proclaiming the 'end of motorsport' a while ago when DEFRA made some recommendations....   2 years on, it never materialised.

[muddyweb]

Just an afterthought, and I know some land owners are already doing so, there is often more money to be had from the occasional and legal use of land by motorsport than there is from subsidy anyway, so all we need to do is get the land owners on our side and the issue is much reduced anyway.

[Henry Webster]

Agreed, Tim I am always keen to err on the side of caution, but I think that where organisations such as LARA, the MSA and the ACU are looking at this as an urgent priority and have advised people to sign the petition then I too am keen to encourage people to sign up.

I have to admit that I do not understand all the issues, but there are plenty of people more capable than me who do.  

Your second afterthought there is a poignant one

I know some land owners are already doing so, there is often more money to be had from the occasional and legal use of land by motorsport than there is from subsidy anyway, so all we need to do is get the land owners on our side and the issue is much reduced anyway.

Absolutely right - however it is another obstacle for the landowner to deal with before they allow motorsport to take place and it will put even more landowners off getting involved.  We are short enough of good venues without any further obstacles getting in the way.

I am also particularly worried about the grass roots use of farmland for sport.  My old student motorclub used to borrow a field in exchange for a bottle of whisky.  This just wouldn't be worth the farmers while in terms of time alone, checking whether this may impact him let alone cover any shortfall in subsidy.

Getting landowners on side is something that I and the organizations that I am involved with take very seriously.  I doubt this ruling would have a strong effect on the big motorsport events like the Hillrallies and BORC, but could have a major effect on grass roots events such as club trials, autotests, gymkhanas etc.

Thanks for your thoughts.

H

[muddyweb]

I am also particularly worried about the grass roots use of farmland for sport.  My old student motorclub used to borrow a field in exchange for a bottle of whisky.  This just wouldn't be worth the farmers while in terms of time alone, checking whether this may impact him let alone cover any shortfall in subsidy.

I don't disagree at all, and it does need to be investigated, and I'm glad the relevant organisations are looking into it.

There are a couple of issues which also need to be factored in of course...  first off, many small farmers don't bother with the subsidy scheme because of the levels of bureacracy and complication involved in doing so.  The bottle of whisky for land deals can still exist for the folks who don't have subsidies.

Secondly, we often seem to forget that DEFRA is essentially a bunch of civil servants... they aren't politicians and have very little to do with the government.    Whilst a petition is good to show the level of people affected and who have an opinion, it reality I'm not sure they will pay it much heed.

Sorry if I seem to be negative about this, the last thing I want to see is the further reduction in available land, but I am concerned that no-one else seems to be publically presenting all the information and arguments.

[Henry Webster]

Secondly, we often seem to forget that DEFRA is essentially a bunch of civil servants... they aren't politicians and have very little to do with the government.    Whilst a petition is good to show the level of people affected and who have an opinion, it reality I'm not sure they will pay it much heed.

Sorry if I seem to be negative about this, the last thing I want to see is the further reduction in available land, but I am concerned that no-one else seems to be publically presenting all the information and arguments.

Muddyweb,

Thanks for your interest, most of your concerns are ones that reverberate with me - it is much better to argue from a point of knowledge.

Thanks for your insight into how subsidies are taken up - that's useful to know.  As I say I don't pretend to be an expert and I don't have much spare time at the moment to research it as thoroughly as I would like.

I agree with your point about DEFRA being civil servants, that's exactly why the legal measures that organisations such as the MSA and ACU are looking at may well be the best solution.  On the petition front, I am neither a particular fan of this method, nor convinced it will have much effect, but it might count against us if now it has been started it doesn't show a significant amount of support for the cause - hence why I am keen to promote it!

Cheers

H

[davidlandy]

6.5k now

[muddyweb]

I hope they remove some of the duplications before they send it.... there seem to be a fair few in there.

Seriously though, I am not against this.. I have 'signed' it myself to show a weight of support for motorsport rather than in any belief that it will be effective.... and as I said before, don't fool yourself into thinking that a change in government will make any difference to this... Defra will carry on regardless under the Conservatives or Lib Dems.