whats going on?!

[boss]

violance, riots and luting what the hell is happining to this country?!  we live in a state where the police are not allowed to use force anywhere near that of what is  being delt to them! there was a debate on the radio over weather they should authorise the use of water cannons and/or rubber bullets and the arguments against that were things like "there a violation of the rioters human rights" what about the human rights of the officers having petrol bombs and bricks thrown at them.


 i drove past the sony centre on the m25 this morning which was a smoking ruin, then got sent back to highbury (tottenham area) where i saw the destruction of the retail park from saturday and the high street, some people really need to grow up

then i was to hear the yoofs on the radio saying "its becasue were poor and bored" and "people who think there is no need for it or its disgusting are stuck up and obviously have more money than us, becasue this is our way of getting money so were going to do it while we can".....hmmmm, well if you put as much effort into finding a job as you do with your rioting and luting then maby you would be on a diecent wage!


makes me sick!

[Jas278]

Social un -rest under a tory government "NEVER"   LOL.............   A good way of deflecting the attention from  Downing street and Murdoch ??    Conspiracy NEVER   

[Saffy]

It;s good to allow such minor riots to play out, let the nation see on national TV buildings burning and stores getting looted without police in sight for hours.
Such things make it so much easier to bring in tougher civil disobedience  laws and powers without anyone blinking an eye lid. See the public already drawn in and saying bring the water canons, plastic bullets, bring the army in, shoot the lot....... playing right into the hands of future malevolent governments.

Already they are considering shutting down the networks like blackberry IM from 6pm to 6am to prevent the trouble makers organising.  Sounds just like the Egypt and Co during their on going 'revolutions'.

Those US style riot trucks..... where they suddenly come from?

The future is bleak. Civil disobedience incidents will rise in the following decades, we haven't seen anything yet. Wait till things like the oil/fuel crisis *really* hits home in the UK. We will see our fellow UK citizens dead in the street from law enforement bullets.

[LandRoger]

Sorry M8 but your thread  made me break into a verse of that golden oldie,ALLWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHTSIDE OF LIFE!, things usually get worse before getting better ,ATB.

[boss]

we usedto be an industrial super power and "made in england" actually ment something. Seems that were always wrapped up in sorting evereyone elses problems out before our own.

[Saffy]

We used to be an Empire. So was Rome.

I hear the amazon.co.uk has sold out of baseball bats in last 2 days.

A white guy involved in an incident of running over an ethic minority in (and I quote) "their territory" whilst large numbers of that community where standing around at night with cricket bats and other makeshift weapons would you stop?

[V8MoneyPit]

I can see both Boss' and Saffy's side of the debate. However, Saffy, would you be saying this is it was your home or business being looted/torched? Of course people will react with cries of "bring out the rubber bullets". It was my very first reaction on Sunday. It is human nature.

The challenge is finding a balance between suppressing the mindless imbeciles doing the rioting and not moving into a police state. IMHO it's the move away from community that is the root cause. If these people personally knew who they were hurting, they might have less tendency to carry out the act. Certain people no longer have any respect for others or others property. If someone else has something more than they do, it is seen as fair game. This applies right through from petty theft to full on rioting and looting.

[lambert]

water cannon with purple dye and cctv. if you were there you will be purple and rounded up over the next few days. if the cctv demonstrates you were there defending rather than attacking you go home, if not you get to go to the antarctic to help reasearch into the effects of extreem temperature exposure on humans.

[V8MoneyPit]

..........if not you get to go to the antarctic to help reasearch into the effects of extreem temperature exposure on humans.

That would turn them purple for a second time 

[Saffy]

I can see both Boss' and Saffy's side of the debate. However, Saffy, would you be saying this is it was your home or business being looted/torched? Of course people will react with cries of "bring out the rubber bullets". It was my very first reaction on Sunday. It is human nature.

Don't get me wrong, I am right up there with the fantasy of handcuffing these scumbags to the tow hitch and dragging them around until dead. I am just saying BEWARE of possible Government motives, handling and knee jerk reactions. In the future we as a people may want to be a able to protest against or remove a rogue government outside of the normal democratic route but find we are unable to do so because of detrimental policy changes that could occur now. 
At first I really do believe that we will shortly see curfew imposed on the young in the inner city areas.

[boss]

and dont get me wrong im pointing the finger at the government that allow people to have this mentality, with its slack attitude to imigration and making it easey to play the benifit system. The knock on effect of this is there isnt enough room, which knocks house prices up, No jobs to pay for that and because its easey to play the system people dont bother looking for work or aspiring to be anything worth being. Which all then knocks on our pay packets because people are allowed to think this way. Australia doesnt have these problems because of carefull imigration controle and they keep an eye on the money thats going out.

Sorry if my slightly right wing views cause offence btw

[V8MoneyPit]

At first I really do believe that we will shortly see curfew imposed on the young in the inner city areas.

You may well be right, my friend. But it will only be government being seen to do something. However, we all know, including the government, that it has no effect whatsoever on the people (word used loosely!) who are committing the offences we are seeing at the moment. They obviously have no respect for authority, so they are hardly likely to stay indoors quivering at the thought of a curfew!

I had a thought earlier (doesn't happen often!).... some of the most stable countries are the ones with a dictator leadership. Otherwise known as 'democratic republics'! If a country has that in it's name the one thing you can be sure of is it isn't democratic  They can be perfectly stable for decades and only become unstable when someone decides they don't like the leader and starts an uprising! I say bring back Thatcher, she knows a thing or two about a dictator leadership and how to sort out rioters   

Boss.... I fully understand where you are coming from mate. I really don't have a problem with foreign labour, as such though. Most of them are damn hard workers. The problem stems from lazy Brits sitting on their backsides who can't be bothered to do work that's 'beneath them'. It's no small wonder companies are happy employing foreigners who are happy to earn a basic wage doing the stuff many Brits won't entertain.

Of course, there are plenty of Brits trying very hard to get jobs. But many aren't. And, as you say, the benefits system just encourages this. I think this has more effect than the immigration policies. Even if we don't let people into the country, it wouldn't make the lazy element get off their backsides. Companies would just suffer because they couldn't get workers.

After the war, the UK would not have recovered as quick as it did without imported labour. It has it's place, even today.

As with your original post, the excuses these rioters are coming up with are just laughable. They seem to think that just because someone has more than they do, they become fair game to rob. And they happily sit there and state this as if it were perfectly reasonable. They simply can't comprehend that it's a ludicrous argument. I don't suppose many of them would understand what ludicrous means!! Ah, now..... education.......

[boss]

i feel this is getting slightly off topic lol

[dxmedia]

It's a tiny tiny tiny tiny amount of people causing basically a small amount of damage with a huge amount of media on it.

How much cash money does it cost when York floods every year?  I bet more than all of the damage from the looting (it's not rioting).

How many people are actually doing it?  500? - 1000?  Out of a population of 60 000 000???

How many crimes are happening at the moment which are being grouped together with what's going on at the moment to try and make it look worse?  How many times a day do police cars normally have stones thrown at them in larger housing council housing estates in the larger cities?

Cameron's just [!Expletive Deleted!] off that he's had to come back of holiday and the media are doing everything they can to not talk about murdock and the fact that EVERY newspaper will have been doing the phone tapping - what journalists suddenly stop using tricks when they get a new employer?  Oh some civil unrest wooop - 24/7 coverage.

[YT]

 Having been born and brought up in Belfast, and seen this sorta thing day in day out for the better part of 30 years,I could add to this thread at length with possible causes/cures,my thoughts ect, but to be honest, the low lives indulging in rioting and looting just aint worth the  extr coverage,or time to do so. I will add this (in a light hearted way)

 WELCOME TO GREAT BRITAIN,
  Visit Belfast lite, Your chance to expirence Belfast without water canon,plastic baton rounds,CS gas and live fire.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, but looting does hit an all time low when ya see a photo of a 'looter' leaving the area with an arm full of crisps,,,,, FROM POUNDLAND. 

[V8MoneyPit]

Great reality check, YT. You're right, of course. We do need to get this in perspective.

In answer to part of DXM's post, I understand over a thousand arrests have been made (is that in London alone?). In which case the total numbers involved must run into many thousands I assume.

What these idiots are doing is wrong. The causes of it can be blamed on many things. Ultimately, it is the individuals doing it who had a choice and chose to do it. But the fact many of them seem to think it's perfectly acceptable behaviour is what I find most worrying.

[Saffy]

one of the things that are clear from all this...

If wanting to cause chaos, disruption with the extremely slow response from the authorities then carry out such 'attacks' whilst all the top men in suits are on vacation.

[dxmedia]

Great reality check, YT. You're right, of course. We do need to get this in perspective.

In answer to part of DXM's post, I understand over a thousand arrests have been made (is that in London alone?). In which case the total numbers involved must run into many thousands I assume.

What these idiots are doing is wrong. The causes of it can be blamed on many things. Ultimately, it is the individuals doing it who had a choice and chose to do it. But the fact many of them seem to think it's perfectly acceptable behaviour is what I find most worrying.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14486996

888 arrests in total in London. That is out of a population of 8,278,251 that is 0.01% of the population. A TINY amount of people. Yes what these people is going is wrong, but the media are reporting it like it's doomsday.

How many arrests like these are made over a 'normal' 4 day period in London? It would also not surprise me if it's the same people who would be getting arrested.


The figure of about 1000 is for UK wide. That's a population of 60 000 000, that works out at 0.0016% of the population. Figures so small they are just about totally insignificant (not belittling the stress of the people who have been effected, but really, not that many people have been).

Are the insurance claims being put forward at the moment any more than would have been other wise. If someone burns down a shop or a house they are an arsonist. Just because they do it with a group of other people doesn't mean that they wouldn't have done it anyway? If they are that way inclined it can hardly be called peer pressure.

My thoughts go out to people such as the employees of the sony distribution warehouse who were probably on minimum wage picking and packing who might well be out of work for some time. But taken as an average - is it any more than normal?
 

[dxmedia]

And who wants to run a book on london glaziers have just put up their prices?   OOooo there's a glass shortage you know ***cough***. There's plenty people going to be coming away from this with a lot more than they would have done otherwise.

[V8MoneyPit]

The media will always run with whatever 'news' is what they see as 'current'. Follow up's don't sell newspapers, etc. It's the shock, horror, this is happening on your street stuff that sells. You can't deny that what has been shown is dramatic. That's why they show it. Ultimately, they have to present what sells, not necessarily what you or I would like to see. And it would seem the majority of newspaper buyers like to see the over embellished fiction that they provide.

I actually suspect many of the people involved might not steal if they were on their own. There will be others, probably the majority, that would. Just like you say.

I suspect the crimes committed in these so called riots, are in addition to the 'normal' crime being carried out. As are the resulting insurance claims. It would, indeed, be interesting to get a feel for the normal levels compared to what's happened in the last few days.

And who wants to run a book on london glaziers have just put up their prices?   OOooo there's a glass shortage you know ***cough***. There's plenty people going to be coming away from this with a lot more than they would have done otherwise.

Such a cynic! Where's your belief in human goodness? OK, so you are probably right 

[Saffy]

gave somic to watch on late night tv for a couple days anyway

[boss]

Im happy to hear there are talks of suspending benifits of anyone convicted of rioting/luting. Thatll give them something to moan about!

[dxmedia]

Im happy to hear there are talks of suspending benifits of anyone convicted of rioting/luting. Thatll give them something to moan about!

An absolutely disgusting idea which could only be thought up by the toffs in charge.

You take away money from a criminal, how are they going to get more money?  Um they are already a criminal.

I take it this is the front page headline of the sun / daily mail?

[richardpalmer]

Social un -rest under a tory government "NEVER"   LOL.............   A good way of deflecting the attention from  Downing street and Murdoch ??    Conspiracy NEVER   

Mate I was already on the same page when I herd about the Tottenham riots, I thought about 50 paid rioters ensighting the local youth and bobs your uncle full blown riot.

I wonder if they already had development plans for the buildings that the fire brigade let burn to the ground. If Sony were short of cash or just wanted to move out of Enfield they could have closed their factory and made everyone redundant like ordinary companies have to do.

That's it the cats out of the bag, I'm dead.

[YT]

RICKYLEAKS hS hit the interweb !! You'll be up for extradition next mate :)
Nice to see ya over here mate.

[Saffy]

 I am just saying BEWARE of possible Government motives, handling and knee jerk reactions.

http://action.openrightsgroup.org/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1422&ea.campaign.id=11632

[dazzawhipple]

reading with interest, left uk 4 years ago, remember that most of the western world have the same issues

we have illegal's rioting, at the detention centres, to be let in to Australia!!!!