TD5 Glitch

[drum]

Since the defender was serviced, I've had a small glitch a couple of times, anybody any idea what it is?

If I drive hard and underload, say maintain 70+ on the motorway (not that I would you understand :D ), for maybe half an hour. I get a sudden loss of power, it feels like it's jumped out of gear, but without the sudden high revs. Before I've had time to react, everything is back to normal. The only thing I have time to notice, is that the temprature guage, goes off the scale, but only for a second.

It's done it to me maybe 4 or 5 times now. If I just pootle along it never does it.

My gut feeling is electrical, but obiously in a TD5 That's a fairly decent bet, anybody come accorss it before??

[scooby]

Hi it might be a slight heat sizceron the truck but i will look into it to find out more for you. never come across it b4, but i now you could get the same problem on a motorbike. Which was down to heat sizcer. It might be a fuel problem, If it clears in sec" the best thing to do is wight intill it gat worse earse to work out then. Or pay out for it to go on a flault finder which will coast loads and they still will not know.

[drum]

I would have thought it was nigh on impossible for the temprature to go up that suddenly and straight back down. Probably takes 2 secs, to go from mid way, to off scale, and back again. Which is what made me think it was electrical.

My first reaction was dirt in the fuel, bunging an injector or something, causing a misfire, but then getting pulled through by the momentum of the running engine\speed. But why would it only happen under heavy load, and why would the temp guage, fly up when it happens?

[scooby]

As you say you could have a bloke in the fuel but the over heating not sure. Never come cross this b4. norm is block thermosat for over heating etc, and lack of power would be fuel or pump giving up or crap in tghe fuel but the same at the sametime not sure inless you have two things wrong with the truck. and they come up at once.

[drum]

Is it possible that the TD5 cuts the fuel\power if it senses an overheat??

If so I diagnoise a faulty temp sensor\loose connection. Giving a dodgy temp reading for a fraction of a second. Result - ECU Cuts power. Then Sensor returns to normal, and normal service resumes.

What do you reckon?

[scooby]

Go to your local land rover dealer and get the ecu re atived propbley. they will tell you also the peoblem by the computer.  The ecu might be picking up the temp reading to early.

[Xtremeteam]

id be wary bout taking it to ur landy dealer,had a motor in a few weeks ago that had been back n forth to the local dealer  & had taken around £200 of the customer to put on the autologic & still couldnt cure the fault so wanted to replace loads of items to try n cure it,brought it in to my work & using the same autologic found & cured the problem within 20 min for bout £150 less

[drum]

Just read it could be the air-flow meter either. This can cause hesitation when under heavy load.

Strange how you puzzle over something, but when you start talking it though with some one you come up with half a dozen idea. Well 2 so far :D

The Truck is under warranty but the problem has only happened since it last had a service. I don't have confidence in the main dealer. So my approach with them is to only give them warranty work, and if possible to go in knowing (or atleast having a good idea) what the problem is.

[scooby]

It could be the air flow meter but to be honsit i have never come cross alot of air flow meters going down. alot of places do say air flow as it will cost a small fortune to rplace or repair. the air flow meter is a strong little thing really, In your case get a fault finder on it and that should be able to let you stright away. if you where closer to me i would plkace my one on it for you. But you should pay out for this to find the right problem. As i thoink there could be a couple off things wrong with it like i said b4, but doing one might make the truck run alot better. as one thing leads into 2 or maybe 3 things going wrong.  becareful wher you take it as all mech" like to make loads of money out of poeple.

[drum]

My money is still on the temp sender, but unfortunately I don't know enought about these TD5's yet to be 100%. I think I'll give it a wiggle, and check the connections, then if the problem persists, it's going to have to go back to the dealer.

I appreicate, what you both say about main dealers, and I don't trust our local one at all. However the truck is under warranty so if they want to replace the entire engine to fix the problem, that's fine with me, as LR are paying  :lol:

[thermidorthelobster]

It could be the air flow meter but to be honsit i have never come cross alot of air flow meters going down.

Actually, I'd disagree with this - I *have* heard of plenty of air flow meter problems on TD5s and also 4.0/4.6v8s.  It's easy enough to diagnose;  you just swap with somebody else and see if the fault transfers with the meter.

As you say you could have a bloke in the fuel

Quick, let him out before he drowns!  :roll:

[drum]

Actually, I'd disagree with this - I *have* heard of plenty of air flow meter problems on TD5s and also 4.0/4.6v8s.  It's easy enough to diagnose;  you just swap with somebody else and see if the fault transfers with the meter.

Hmmm, I wonder if the boss will let me borrow his discovery for a couple of hours mid-week.  :twisted:

[scooby]

It could be the air flow meter but to be honsit i have never come cross alot of air flow meters going down.

Actually, I'd disagree with this - I *have* heard of plenty of air flow meter problems on TD5s and also 4.0/4.6v8s.  It's easy enough to diagnose;  you just swap with somebody else and see if the fault transfers with the meter.

As you say you could have a bloke in the fuel

Quick, let him out before he drowns!  :roll:

Its always worth giving it ago. you never do now, intill it works again wright like all cars its only guess work. intill you come across it and if you or the lost bloke to come across it you know all by the custmer.

[Jimbo]

Drum,

The Td5 engine will go into 'safe mode' (restricted power) if the temperature goes sky-high. My '00 Disco did this as the head gasket was starting to fail........and it only did it when you drove above 70mph, if I kept the speed down to 60-65 it would run all day with no problems !, but try and accelerate to overtake something and the temp gauge would go up, and ooops - no power !!!, most embarrassing having to cut up the wagon you were trying to overtake on the dual carriageway  :oops:  :oops:

Have you checked your coolant level ? - my cooling system was getting pressurised and venting out the expansion tank filler cap. A new head gasket solved everything...........but I wonder if yours could be electrical (as has already been discussed). If the temperature sensor is going south, or there's a duff connection somewhere - the ECU might be getting a false reading and going into safe mode.

What's the mileage on your truck ? - my Disco had 60k on it when the HG went.

Jim

[drum]

In that case you've confirmed what I was thinking about a duff sensor, causing a shutdown\safe mode. The Temp change is far too rapid for it to be "real".

I was about to look at the sensor this morning but got rained off  :(

Only 14k on the truck and still under warranty so not overly worried yet :D

[Jimbo]

Time for a trip to the dealer then !!!!

Jim

[Xtremeteam]

had a disco in 2day that went into limp home mode last night with the opil light on,it was dfriven 15 miles with the light on & not knocking & also is full of oil,its an inbuilt thing that if the computer senses something  "different" it auto matically goes into limp home,i rekin urs is the sensor

[scooby]

Hi there drum forgot the new ones have this limp mode built intill them.

[drum]

Right I now have reasonable idea what it is, so when I go to the dealers I can tell them what to fix (or atleast where to start)  :D

[drum]

Finally got somewhere with this.

It's so hard to diagnoise when the problem only happens on the motorway.

I think the coolant had air in it somewhere. I've bleed the thing repeatedly over the last week. And I reckon it's getting better. Now I just have to keep an eye on the coolant levels makesure they don't go down at all.

[LOFTY]

This might seem daft, but, my TD5 did this, driving along, then temp gauge went mental red hot in a couple of seconds, loss of power.
The problem, sender unit position is poor, if you have very low water in engine, the gauge only shows normal, until engine gets seriously hot, then steam gets to sender giving hot reading.
This happened twice to me, wasnt until i checked condenser bottle and filled up to correct level , the next time it got hot it blew all the water out, but would then drive with normal temperature, after blowing water out 3, 4 times, i had head gasket done, been ok since. This all happened in the first week of ownership.


 

[drum]

I think the problem was an Air lock in the system, somehow caused after the last service. At the begining of the week, I started bleeding the system, when I got home using the little bleed screw in the top hose. At first I added about a pint of water, and this has progressively reduced during the week. Now the system bleed coolant straight away, and the water level does drop after a run.

I'm also blaming steam on the sensor proabaly cause by pressure\temp of a hard run pushing the bubble around and past the sensor.

I'll keep an eye on it over the coming weeks, to see if the levels change anymore.

[Range Rover Blues]

This might seem daft, but, my TD5 did this, driving along, then temp gauge went mental red hot in a couple of seconds, loss of power.
The problem, sender unit position is poor, if you have very low water in engine, the gauge only shows normal, until engine gets seriously hot, then steam gets to sender giving hot reading.
This happened twice to me, wasnt until i checked condenser bottle and filled up to correct level , the next time it got hot it blew all the water out, but would then drive with normal temperature, after blowing water out 3, 4 times, i had head gasket done, been ok since. This all happened in the first week of ownership.


 

Sound to me like the sensor position is spot on then, as soon as the coolant level drops and before it becomes potentially disastrous the problme manifests itself.  Perfect bit of design I'd say.

[drum]

Fair point. except atleast in my case, you check the water level, clean the radiator etc. and it still does it. It's only when you bleed the huge amount of air out of the sytem that the water level drops (as it would), and you realsie that you are low on water.

[LOFTY]

Dont follow your logic there, i had done a lot of miles in first week, you could drive all day with normal temperature showing, yet the system was nearly empty of water, surprized i didnt do real damage to engine, one can only assume previous owner knew this, but doing a 20 mile test drive didnt show a problem, nor did it until i realised the level showing on the bottle was a stain, not level of water. After filling it to correct level, irealised how low system was, then when it blew it all out, i knew i had a real problem.
test dye kit showed head gasket had gone, got from Fosters restoration site, advised from a mud member.