Your thoughts on driving at 159 mph

[datalas]

Strictly speaking a wind tunnel has the same scientific forces,  but it's a lot easier to drive down :)

and alot more scenic :lol:

you don't happen to live in london do you?  I don't find the inside of windtunnels all that scenic :)

[driftwood]

Strictly speaking a wind tunnel has the same scientific forces,  but it's a lot easier to drive down :)

and alot more scenic :lol:

you don't happen to live in london do you?  I don't find the inside of windtunnels all that scenic :)

sorry misinterprited ( cant spell) thought you were on about driving on a road, the wind tunnel i know the car doesn't move.

[datalas]

sorry misinterprited ( cant spell) thought you were on about driving on a road, the wind tunnel i know the car doesn't move.

the question is...  if a car drives down a windtunnel and there is nobody in it to witness the driving... is it still cursed by Ben ?

[lowey]

Speeding cop.

Somebody has got to do it somewhere on a patch near you.

Advanced driving training takes the red mist from the driving experience that would otherwise be an adrenalin rush at the top end of the performance envelope of a performance car. The thrill of the chase. These emotions have to be drilled out from the police driver psyche.

When driven for three reasons I believe the law enforcement agencies we depend on are absolutely entitled to do these activities.

reason 1: To test & evaluate the suitability of a high speed vehicle.
reason 2: To train the police driver to acquire the skill and risk awareness of high speed driving under blue lights.
reason 3: High speed blue light official police business.

Training to concentrate on the driving task seperates the advanced driver from the less able driver whose mind is elsewhere when driving. Police driver training is an essential element of keeping the skills honed and will be inevitably treated with disdain by the public at large. This is the price we pay for law enforcement.

(Lowey was typing with his I.A.M & ROSPA/ROADA observers hat on)
Lowey now putting his slow oily Landie hat back on again.

[Andy.]

He was still breaking the law, no matter how you try and cover it up.

Why not a test track which I think has been mentioned before  :?:

[muddyweb]

Nobody is trying to cover anything up.... there is no question as to the speed he was travelling...  the question is whether what he did warranted him being dismissed.   I, and I believe Lowey at least believe that it doesn't.

[Andy.]

OK covering up was probably the wrong way of putting it, lets saying justifying his actions.

At the end of the day he's kept his job, lets hope he never again has to reach those speeds in the name of the law  

[Colin 009]

Throw him out of the force, sack the judge.

[gords]

People keep mentioning that "he was breaking the law" - so what happens when the towrags they're chasing exceeds the speed limit?

Pull up, radio base and say "sorry, couldn't catch them, they went over the speed limit"?

Or continue to chase them, track them and attempt to stop them?

If it's the latter, then they (the police) better be bloody good drivers!

I did IAM training when I came back to biking a few years ago. I considered myself to be a perfectly capable and quick rider - until I started doing the training :shock:  

Travelling quickly and safely on Britain's roads is not necessarily natural - it needs to be trained and continuously practised.

From the quick read I had of the BBC news item, it appeared as though there were (are?) not any clear guidelines for this sort of thing - possibly the fault lies with his superiors?

[Nugget 4x4]

If as his defence says he was evaluating the car surely he would not have done this alone, I thought patrol car operators worked in pairs . At that speed he was not driving with due care and attention :shock:

[gords]

If as his defence says he was evaluating the car surely he would not have done this alone, I thought patrol car operators worked in pairs . At that speed he was not driving with due care and attention :shock:

You can be pretty certain there was significant attention and unless he was on a death-wish, there would have been a whole load of due care going on too

[Bobtail]

he was just out on a jolly..............

oh we have a new pursuit motor souped up whatever
he was not chasing a joy rider he was ONE
simple as that
if it was me or you we would go to prison like the bike riders
even if you were a racing driver.
there has been drivers in the past caught speeding on britains roads
and banned and heavily fined

so it is one rule for one  :twisted:  :twisted:

[Frankie-Boy]

Good heavens,

The behaviour on this thread is appalling, perhaps we should all join the anti 4x4 brigade too, we could then spout off a load of rubbish because like them we're not in full knowledge of the facts.

Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but what does it matter now, no-one was hurt, so why keep moaning about it.

I have no views on the subject one way or the other, I just don't like to see usually highly refined people in a heated discussion.

[davidlandy]

Good heavens,

The behaviour on this thread is appalling, perhaps we should all join the anti 4x4 brigade too, we could then spout off a load of rubbish because like them we're not in full knowledge of the facts.

Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but what does it matter now, no-one was hurt, so why keep moaning about it.

I have no views on the subject one way or the other, I just don't like to see usually highly refined people in a heated discussion.

I have been watching this thread to and think thats its a good healthy debate and done in the right spirit - let it continue I say, its a good read! I certainly dont think that the behaviour is 'appalling'  

I might even stick my 2p  worth in later!

[Frankie-Boy]

Yeah but, No but, Yeah but, you just like a good arguement.  

[davidlandy]

Yeah but, No but, Yeah but, you just like a good arguement.  

I know !  u know me lol  

[Dirty Gertie]

Well, having read this thread, the top and bottom of it seems to be; Bloke (who happens to work as a copper) gets a high-speed vehicle to play with; he plays, and RECORDS his jollies!!  -[ed: naughty]!!!!
Now he may be highly-trained, able to cope with high speed driving etc etc, but the bloke isn't very bright, lets face it!!
He may be authorised for high-speed pursuit  when necessary:  BUT this wasn't!!! He messed up, shot himself in the foot and was stoopid enough to leave the completely incriminating evidence behind :(stoopid):  For being that dim; he deserves to be sent to sit in the stoopid corner for a goodly time!!




A friend of mine died some years ago when a drunken idiot in mummy's shopping rocket spanged their car up the backside on the M1 at 100 + in the early hours, my mate was fired out of the back window. Speed kills peeps travelling in the same direction too!!
 :(bigcry):

[Thrasher]

Gosh!

In America, if the chase would endanger the Officers - they call it off. However, in the UK, at 3am - on an empty motorway - how many people in here would actually stick to the speedlimit. And I want honest answers. I know some would, and I know some would not.

I have been "pulled over" by flashing blue lights at speeds well in excess of the speedlimit at 2am and 3am - they simply slow you down and you continue on your journey - I have never been physically stopped - just had the waggling finger.

It would be interesting to know what vehicle they were driving as I was under the impression that by law vehicles (cars) are limited to 155mph (if the engine can exceed it) maximum, and I think around 180mph for bikes. Also, I note with interest that he was actually caught by himslef ... what an odd situation to be in ;-)

[Frankie-Boy]

You can see the picture, him looking in the mirror and saying, "Who do you think you are, Stirling Moss?, you're nicked", slapping cuffs on himself and dragging himself off to the cells.    :shock:  :?  :lol:  :D

[datalas]

<moderators hat on>

Note, this thread is being watched very closely.  A number of people (myself included before anyone accuses me of hypocracy) have expressed some very strong opinions, however for the moment at least this has been reasonably jovial and not accusatory.

Please try to keep it this way :)

</moderators hat>

[scooby]

I thought police head quaters brought a new law out on traffic control cars or police vech" that they were not to speed anymore on a chase dew to the amount of injurys happen a report they whent into.
If we or not allowed to do speeds up to that, They should not be doing them aswell. But they do get away with alot more then we do. I say ban him and others doing that sort of speed. He probley did not get his brain back from henddon yet, But still lose his lience for 1yr big fine and retake his test again we do if cought but it's hard to catch a 4x4 at those sort of speeds anyway. Anyone at 159mph is a twit to all road users.

[lowey]

If I was a copper I would be looking to the Police Federation for advice about the Health & Safety at Work Act and see if driving a cop car at high speed is contrary to health & safety to the driver in the course of his job.
Not to mention the general public put at risk as a consequence of the behaviour.

Just thought I would throw that one in to keep it on the boil.

[Bush Tucker Man]

Apologies if I replicate anyones words, but I 'haven't read all 4 pages
Surely if he's been trained, examined, continually assessed, (& thus) authorised to drive at this level of speed & competance, he needs to keep 'up to speed' (no pun intended)

It has been suggested in the press (by journalists & readers) that a track be used.
Utter Tosh!!, how can a track replicate the varience of conditions that occur on a road?

It seems that the main problem was the lack of management control over the assessment & the actual videoing. Was the video for evaluation/training purposes?

I've been passed on numerous occasions up in North Yorkshire by unmarked cars (Omegas, Vectras, B*Ws, Imprezas) at vast increases over the speed limits.
But, they always have appeared to have been driven to the conditions & driver-visibility.


After all do the 'scrotes' stick to the legal niceties of driving when on the run?

Now, if he'd messed up & caused accident/injury/death, that would be a large book thrown at him.



Neil, the vehicle in question was a 3.2 Vectra (GSi?) that had had its ECU 'played with' (presumably by Vauxhall/Opel)

As a side-thought', What an advertisement for them, no ad company on earth could get better publicity for the performance of their cars

[lowey]

It has been suggested in the press (by journalists & readers) that a track be used.
Utter Tosh!!, how can a track replicate the varience of conditions that occur on a road?

I agree that a track would not be representative on a driver training mission but I would regard the vehicle approval assessment driving which is more of a technical undertaking is better suited to a track.

The elimination of this element from public roads would in itself be an improvement.

[Bush Tucker Man]

Yes, but how do they test top speed on a track without using somewhere like Bruntingthorpe?
A national standard of performance for each eligiblecar would have to be agreed on , so forces in (for example; the north of Scotland) could make a traffic car choice based on evidence

[lowey]

Yes, but how do they test top speed on a track without using somewhere like Bruntingthorpe?
A national standard of performance for each eligiblecar would have to be agreed on , so forces in (for example; the north of Scotland) could make a traffic car choice based on evidence

Police are people like anywhere else, there is no way any agreement will ever be forthcoming when personal preferences will dominate. Cars with identical specs in the final analysis will come down to availability & budget in the final decision. The evidence you suggest is in a driving experience context very subjective. It is the feel, the handling that matter to drivers, but might just be 'How many traffic cones can we squeeze in the boot' for other appraisers. There will be different constraints for mountain regions compared with fen regions or city regions or Mway patrol for example.

Let a local force choose their own I reckon they know best.

I know a local force who will be buying silver metallic cars next since their white cars lose value quicker.

Fleet management can be a nightmare, but I reckon local cops know what they like.

[Range Rover Blues]

What a b****y waste of tax-payers money.
1, train a driver to go very very fast indeed.
2, buy him a car that goes very, very fast
3, prosecute him for going very, very fast.

It wasn't like he even got caught, his colleagues grassed him up!

If an officer is ever likely to be called upon to drive like this then surely he should be confident in the knowledge that he can do so, safely, and that the car is capable.

As for training at MIRA, well actually it's not that easy to go really fast on a proving ground.  The neutral speed for the banking at Milbrook is I think 100MPH on the outer lane, but you are scrubbing 2mph off your top speed just trying to hold the left hand side of the lane (inside line) so you can't get the vehicle to it's max speed.  Even that place in Italy (think it's called Mireval or something) with a 10Km radius curve knocks a few MPH off, that's how Jaguar managed to claim a top speed of 220 even though they never reached it.

[Wanderer]

One vital bit of information has been left out of the discussion.
I saw some video clips from the video that was taken.

He was doing over 80mph in a built up residential area which I would have thought would be the main reason it was brought before the courts whereas 156 on a motorway would have been dealt with in house.

I'd have thought anyone would question the sanity of the officer involved. When firearms officers have to undergo psychiatric evaluation you'd think a vehicle in the hands of someone capable of making such a gross error of judgement would be seen in the same light.

The police have a hard enough job without some speed freak having a bit of a jolly.

I've often come across the training teams in the past, usually around Warwick/Stowe area and they certainly give it some but drive to the conditions.

Ed

[Sooty]

It wasn't like he even got caught, his colleagues grassed him up!

He drove a car on the public road faster than the speed limit permits and was reported by an officer of the law for doing so.
If that is not getting caught then what is???
As far as I can see the guy can be forgiven for doing 159mph on a deserted motorway were if you are crossing the road you must be trying to commit suicide any way(we would all like to do that and get away with it) but to do 60 in a 30 limit and 100 in a 50 limit (and don't quote me on that) but he did crazy speeds in built up areas were somebody may be wandering home a little worse for a drink or two and step off the pavement for a second.
That man should not be allowed to drive anything faster than a desk until he can tell the difference between a housing estate and a motorway.
Sooty steps down off his soap box.

[Wanderer]

I've hd a look to see if there's anything on the net about the speeds involved. I specifically remember seeing at least 80mph in a 30 but a repot from the Telegraph says

He was also accused of "grossly excessive" speed and driving dangerously on the A5 near Telford at 137mph, and on the town's Redhill Way and St Georges Road at speeds of around 100mph.


Ed