Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Topple on October 04, 2005, 19:45:26
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Took shorty (200tdi) down to Salisbury to recee the lanes for the treasure hunt later this month.
On the level without a head wind I could easily maintain 60mph towing my 23ft twin axle caravan.
On hills or with a head wind its a different story. - on some of the hills I was down to 45mph
Any suggestions on how to maintain a reasonable speed would be appreciated.
thoughts so far -
big intercooler
tweek the turbo
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Check the EGR valve (some would proabably suggest throwing it away ;-) )
You can fiddle with the fuelling in the pump... (see Gords posts before Belgium)
Give everything a good clean and service
Flush the intercooler.
Ultimately, sticking an uprated intercooler in there will make a world of difference and I would say is the best long term solution
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EGR valve? On a 200? :oops: :wink:
I have had similar on the Discovery, struggling up hill's etc.
I've cleaned and flushed the intercooler but it seems to oil up in the pipes quite quickly again afterwards :evil:
I have fitted Allisport silicon hose's which feels like they have made some difference, the next step I suppose is a tweak on the fuel pump followed eventually by an intercooler upgrade perhaps, one day :lol:
Trouble is, all that extra power can go two ways, either better mpg or big grins! :lol:
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Take the 23 foot windbreak off the back?
More seriously - do you have a roofrack etc? Bigger tyres?
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big intercoolerbig intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler
errrrrrr
sorry
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:idea:
Another 4 cylinders? :lol:
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Take the 23 foot windbreak off the back?
More seriously - do you have a roofrack etc? Bigger tyres?
roofrack with lights fitted to it and 265/70 MT tryres
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....well....they AINT going to help....
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big intercoolerbig intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler
errrrrrr
sorry
And you said i'd regret it!
(cant wait till next weekend)
\:D/
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Sell the engine for around a grand and fit a V8 with LPG kit...................... :wink:
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....well....they AINT going to help....
neither is the fact its a defender!
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Check engine timing
Check turbo boost pressure (0.8bar standard)
Check the lift pump (easy check is to see if the fuel filter is filled to the brim when removed... if not full then usually lift pump is getting tired!!)
Clean the intercooler
Check that there isn't diesel in the pipe that goes from the anode on top of the injector pump to the turbo actuator
Ensure that the throttle cable is adjusted correctly
Check the air filter (and fuel filter are ok)
Check tappets/valve clearences.
Depening on mileage, it may be worth having your injectors checked and cleaned.
If all of the above are ok...
Then adjust the injector pump (have got some instructions if needed)
Put the turbo boost pressure up to 1 bar (by shortening the actuator)
And if you still want more...
Fit a bigger intercooler (was very impressed with Allisport after talking to them at L2B!!)
Remove the centre box (large silencer) - replace with straight through pipe.
More still...
Nitrous or Propane (Allisport do a kit)
Just don't jump in with both feet and fit a big intercooler... there's no point in the the engine isn't set-up correctly in the first place.
My 90 when it had a 200TDi would happily pull my 22 foot car trailer with a car on at above legal speeds, and would still pull 55/60 up hill.
That didn't have a big intercooler, but did have the pump tweaked and the turbo boost wound up a bit.
Ian
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Check engine timing - NEW BELT FITTED LAST MONTH
Check turbo boost pressure (0.8bar standard) NEED TO CHECK PRESUMABLY WITH A BOOST GUAGE
Check the lift pump (easy check is to see if the fuel filter is filled to the brim when removed... if not full then usually lift pump is getting tired!!) - NEED TO CHECK
Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !
Check that there isn't diesel in the pipe that goes from the anode on top of the injector pump to the turbo actuator NEED TO CHECK
Ensure that the throttle cable is adjusted correctly NEED TO CHECK
Check the air filter (and fuel filter are ok) - REPLACED 500miles AGO
Check tappets/valve clearences. - DID WHEN DID BELT
Depening on mileage, it may be worth having your injectors checked and cleaned. - 155,000
Thanks for the advice, I loke the sound of cheap mods to start rather than spending £400 on a new intercooler and pipework. I was going to buy a winch before Whaddon, so I'm now undecided.
I'll try all the 'free' stuff first.
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Clean the intercooler
Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !
Unfortunately Ian would be meaning the INSIDE of the intercooler aswell - If thats 'a bit muddy' your are in real trouble!
:lol:
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Easy, Buy a Jeep :)
If your intercooler is muddy on the outside, then clean that first.... No point having a blocked intercooler :(
Now clean the inside Someone is bound to tell you if I'm wrong, but I have heard that "Thinned" diseasal is good for cleaning it out (Leave it to soak overnight.. oh, and don;t shove the diesel back in your tank :) )
If you haven't had the injectors cleaned, then I would suggest that as a good next step too...
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cheapest thing to do
check the tyre pressures :D
ok its really obvious but you'd be amased at how many people will spend a fortune on mods to go faster and never check the tyre pressures
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loose weight :lol:
it works for motorbikes
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one that i know of is fit lpg to it
tinley tech (http://www.tinleytech.co.uk) do a kit for turbo diesels for about £400 plus vat. if you beleive the blurb on it, you get better performance, cleaner emissions and (if your careful) better fuel economy.
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Clean the intercooler
Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !
Unfortunately Ian would be meaning the INSIDE of the intercooler aswell - If thats 'a bit muddy' your are in real trouble!
:lol:
I know he meant the inside aswel :wink:
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Once you've checked, washed (inside & out) & cleaned everything and it's all as it should be, but you still want some more power then have a look at this site (http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_power/Power_ve.htm) for the Dodge Ram. They use the same injector pump as Land Rover and it's a good guide to get you started.
MAKE SURE YOU READ ALL THE WARNINGS AND ALWAYS NOTE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO YOU CAN PUT IT BACK TO STANDARD IF IT DOESN'T WORK!
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Once you've checked, washed (inside & out) & cleaned everything and it's all as it should be, but you still want some more power then have a look at this site (http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_power/Power_ve.htm) for the Dodge Ram. They use the same injector pump as Land Rover and it's a good guide to get you started.
MAKE SURE YOU READ ALL THE WARNINGS AND ALWAYS NOTE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO YOU CAN PUT IT BACK TO STANDARD IF IT DOESN'T WORK!
Thanks - found that site late last night seems straightforward enough.
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We (read "me" with Neil hovering over my sholder and supping a beer :roll:) did the diaphram on Gords Disco in the campsite in Belgium. It took about 5 mins to do. :wink:
I would start with the diaphram, as it's the easiest to do, and you'll be suprised at the difference. Only turn yours to about 90 degrees MAX with the standard intercooler, any more than that and your just waisting fuel. :wink:
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Check engine timing - NEW BELT FITTED LAST MONTH
Please don't take this as an insult if you fitted it yourself, but was it done properly.... the cam belt on my brothers Disco had been done by a 'Land Rover specialist' just before he bought it... yet it was quite a way out. Probably becasue it had been done by eye, not using all the pins!!
Check turbo boost pressure (0.8bar standard) NEED TO CHECK PRESUMABLY WITH A BOOST GUAGE
Yep... you really need one that reads at least 1.5bar... TIM ones are the cheapest (I can get these a bit cheaper if needed, and check it's correctly calibrated)...
Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !
As mentioned in later posts, I did mean inside and out. I usually use paraffin, brake cleaner or something similar. Just make sure you give it a good shake and that it's dry when you refit it. Easist way to start the engine with the silicone pipe that goes from the intercooler to inlet manifold disconnected... this will blow any residue out.
Check that there isn't diesel in the pipe that goes from the anode on top of the injector pump to the turbo actuator NEED TO CHECK
Easy check to see whether you diaghram in the injector pump has a split in it, or is leaking slightly.
Ensure that the throttle cable is adjusted correctly NEED TO CHECK
This is quite a common thing that gets overlooked!!
Depening on mileage, it may be worth having your injectors checked and cleaned. - 155,000
Once you've checked all the 'free stuff' this would be my next port of call.
would start with the diaphram, as it's the easiest to do, and you'll be suprised at the difference. Only turn yours to about 90 degrees MAX with the standard intercooler, any more than that and your just waisting fuel.
Why??? Depends how the rest of the pump is set up.... on my 90" this was set to max point, and yet didn't give out clouds of smoke (which would be unburnt fuel)
Also, don't fall into the trap of tweaking the mods and testing it by just reving it at standstill. Your turbo will only boost fully under load... i.e. when your driving it.
My 90" did give a bit of a cloud if your reved it hard whislt stationary (but still passed MOT's) but when driving all you got was a light haze.
The real thing you need to worry about is EGT... but without changing overall max fueling you should be safe :wink:
Ian
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Why??? Depends how the rest of the pump is set up.... on my 90" this was set to max point, and yet didn't give out clouds of smoke (which would be unburnt fuel)
Also, don't fall into the trap of tweaking the mods and testing it by just reving it at standstill. Your turbo will only boost fully under load... i.e. when your driving it.
I'm no Diesel engine guru I just go on what I've been told over there years and through tinkering myself. The info I was given was what I said above and I can't see the reason to go to full fuel if it's not needed! :?
Even with the full width intercooler mine is still only set to about 160 degrees (5 o'clock) as it smokes too much when set to full fuel (180 degrees). Maybe the injector pumps have a different setup for the 200/300 TDi Defender than for the Disco. :-k
I agree the vehicle must be driven to see the effect of any alterations, you wouldn't notice any difference (apart from the smoke) at a standstill! :wink:
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Well I got impatient, i've adjusted the diaphragm by 90 degrees, with no noticable smoke and bags more performance.
I'll take the intercooler out at the weekend and give it a good clean, I'll also look at the other tweeks to the pump.
Yep... you really need one that reads at least 1.5bar... TIM ones are the cheapest (I can get these a bit cheaper if needed, and check it's correctly calibrated)...
found them for just under £30, can you let me know what you can get and the cost, alternativelty I'll pop over to demon tweeks and get one.
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found them for just under £30, can you let me know what you can get and the cost, alternativelty I'll pop over to demon tweeks and get one.
Think they work out about the same price..... although mine would be calibrated.
Though would need to check on price as it may have changed.... if your in a rush - Demon Tweeks or do a search on google. There are quite a few places cheaper than Demon.
Ian
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Think they work out about the same price..... although mine would be calibrated.
I just bought mine from an 'over the counter' supplier, what have I missed on the calibration front?
:?:
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I just bought mine from an 'over the counter' supplier, what have I missed on the calibration front?
Well I brought one that was 0.75 bar out....
When I contacted the suppliers, they had no way of testing them!!!
In saying that, other's I've has have been 100% spot on.
If you want, I could check yours??
Ian
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Thanks Ian,
If mine is 0.75bar out, then my turbo is not working at all!! :lol:
I would suspect it's probably about right, but I might take you up on your offer next time I'm across your way (I assume meeting you at an event would be no good).
I bought a TIM guage, as it saved having to write my name on it afterwards :lol:
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Done the run to Salisbury towing the caravan, used about the same amount of diesel so no apparent downside there. Shorty now doesn't struggle up hills and is happy maintaining 60 on the motorway, she does loose a bit of momentum up steep hills but no where near as much as before
Thanks Ian (Porny) for the advise.
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Pressure wash the chassis and crevases, you'll easly lose a couple of kgs of dirt. Fit K+N airfilter, and if you don't have a snorkel fitted, drill 1" holes in the plastic air box lid. (cheap boy racer trick!)
If you have a snorkel fitted, disconnected at the air filter input. That'll give you a couple of BHP back.
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Pressure wash the chassis and crevases, you'll easly lose a couple of kgs of dirt. Fit K+N airfilter, and if you don't have a snorkel fitted, drill 1" holes in the plastic air box lid. (cheap boy racer trick!)
If you have a snorkel fitted, disconnected at the air filter input. That'll give you a couple of BHP back.
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Pressure washing the chassis I agree with.....
K&N filter... main advantage is that you can just wash it and re-oil rather than having to buy a new one. IMHO a filter will not make the + 4 bhp that most manufactures seem to claim!! (unless the air box design is very bad!!)
Plastic air box on a Defender :? (.... well except for the TD5)
Usually the holes are drilled in the bottom of the air box - i.e. pre filter - most cars (i.e. 99%) take the feed from above the filter, so if you drill holes in the top section you would be sucking in dirty air :shock:
Main difference is increased induction roar... which most chav's seem to think gives their cars at least 50 bhp..... :roll:
If you want more from a Tdi.... (IMHO)
The next stage would be a hybrid turbo, better exhaust, bigger intercooler (possibly), a gas flowed head, and if you still want more then a propane or LPG kit.
The most I know of someone getting from a 200Tdi is 198bhp and 360 ftlb of torque - compared to 107 bhp in a Defender (111bhp in Disco and Range Rover) and 198 ftlb of torque as standard.... but the engine needed rebuilding every 20,000.... and it was 'very' modified!!!
Ian
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The most I know of someone getting from a 200Tdi is 198bhp and 360 ftlb of torque - compared to 107 bhp in a Defender (111bhp in Disco and Range Rover) and 198 ftlb of torque as standard.... but the engine needed rebuilding every 20,000.... and it was 'very' modified!!!
specs,pics anything, i wanna see that :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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The spec... haven't got any pics (was built quite a few years ago)
Copy of my email:
We blueprinted the engine, had our own cam ground, balanced the bottom end, changed the pump settings, had a custom hybrid watercooled turbo built, bigger valves in the head which was ported and gasflowed, We balanced and equalised the combustion chambers in the pistons, fitted total seal rings and a metal ring combustion seal around the combustion area.
We had it set up with adjustable boost and fuelling from inside the cab, we had temperature probes placed in key areas around the engine to monitor the temps.
There were loads of little odds and sods changes to get the last ounce out of it and raise the reliability.
The end result was an engine that was capable of 198 BHP with 360 ft lbs of torque in ambient temperatures of 30c degrees. The bores would last approx 20,000 miles before they needed reboring.
The reliabilty was ok. The performance was amazing, it would happily devour a 4.5 V8 up to around 100 MPH. It would then run out of revs. The downside was that more power meant more emmissions. It was not exactly ozone friendly!
We could run up to 2.5 bar boost. I don't have a pictures, but from the outside it didnt look that different other than silicone hoses and a different breather system and bigger aircleaner.
We also had to modify the flywheel to take a Cosworth 500 BHP clutch, it spat the standard one out the first time we turned the power on.
Ian
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mikee are you thinking what i'm thinking?
20000 miles is a lot of off roading and a lot of fun eh
:(biglaugh): :(biglaugh): :(biglaugh):