Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Dirty Gertie on December 17, 2005, 22:54:17
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There's a heated discussion going on elsewhere, sparked by this issue; your comments please.
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One can only assume that a ban is imposed for a very good reason!?
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:) well, yes, and in this case it was excess alcohol.
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:) well, yes, and in this case it was excess alcohol.
So, what's the "discussion" about then?
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Caught driving whilst banned = cant be trusted = gaoled for rest of ban
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just voted. if i had been banned for doing something silly like dd then im affraid i wouldnt be behind the wheel on public roads. its not yourself you have to worry about. its the idiots that jump out in front of you. so no insurance as banned so no go :wink:
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I voted no driving.
But, i'd like to point out that on private land it is ok.
Drive all the mud you like.
Ps
Sorry about your ban.
:(
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Don't actually thikn its their ban from what i can make out, but i am damn tired so might be wrong! :oops:
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I wouldn't drive after drinking excess alcohol anyway but, if I was banned and found myself in a situation that was life threatening for someone where I was the only one who could drive, then yes, I would drive and face the consequences. I might just have help save someones life.
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:) well, yes, and in this case it was excess alcohol.
So, what's the "discussion" about then?
Well, it began on a speeding conviction, but has digressed somewhat, as these things have a tendency of doing....http://threads.lro.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forum&Number=718336&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=all
BTW, I've not been banned, I'm just interested in peeps opinions, personally, I think if you do the crime, you do the time! Simple!!
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most accidents are caused by people driving blindly, not seeing where they are going and aware of what is going on around them and most of those are below 30mph.
if your banned your banned. if your driving whilst banned with no insurance and accidently hit a child,, well doesn't bare thinking about does it :?:
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Well, it began on a speeding conviction, but has digressed somewhat, as these things have a tendency of doing....http://threads.lro.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forum&Number=718336&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=all
Jeez ... not a nice place over there :shock:
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Jeez ... not a nice place over there :shock:
Why do you think I stay here ?
It might seem like the moderation on mud-club is a little heavy handed at times, but you can probably sense why :)
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As has been said before. If you do the crime, you do the time. I cant believe that anyone has said, in an Emergency. If you not taxed and insured, and in this instance, dont even have a license, then get off the road. How would you feel, if they ploughed into your pride and joy, with no chance of it being replaced.
A freind of mine has his 2 yr old car written off by a drunk driver, and the driver was found at the wheel by the police. He had to claim on his own insurance, because the police said there wasnt enough evidence to convict him ????????
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Looks like the thread has been pulled.
What can I say? If you are banned for any reason, you are banned- end of story. No circumstances justify you driving and i feel you should not be allowed to drive on private land either. If its your own land(yeah right) and noone else is there then who could object?but i guess what is meant by that is driving on playdays- sorry no, a banned driver should not drive on playdays. what is there is an accident? Most play day venues have families there, it aint worth thinking about.
Im not a do gooder, i have ridden my bike at speeds that would have had me banned but that was my choice in remote places and if i had been caught and banned I would have not been riding.
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Even in an "extreme emergency" you will have NO insurance cover so a bit rough for the poor succer you hit & any involved peoples family's. Should be a definate NO NO in my opinion--Cogs
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Well, it began on a speeding conviction, but has digressed somewhat, as these things have a tendency of doing....http://threads.lro.com>>>>>>
Jeez ... not a nice place over there :shock:
Thats why I dont go there anymore .... the moderation is biased to say the least
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I chose "extreme emergency" - I'd rather be driven to hospital with a ruptured appendix by a banned driver, than wait for an ambulance. But I'd say it should be pretty much a life-or-death situation, not somebody about to miss a flight!
And even though the insurance is theoretically automatically void in this case, IIRC in the few cases when this has arisen the insurers have assessed on individual merits.
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I chose "extreme emergency" - I'd rather be driven to hospital with a ruptured appendix by a banned driver, than wait for an ambulance. But I'd say it should be pretty much a life-or-death situation, not somebody about to miss a flight!.
Would you really put your life in the hands of a banned driver, with no medical training, no equipment on board and un marked vehicle rather than a fully trained , fully equipped N.H.S. paramedic/ med practitioner?
Okay, I know I'm biased towards N.H.S. but to trust your life to some
one as irresposible as a drink driver is , in my opinion, not an option.
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Well, that depends on how long you'd have to wait. If both vehicles were there with the engines revving, I'd opt for the ambulance. But I'm currently in a fairly remote village in Devon, and I'd say it would take at least 20 minutes to get an ambulance here, so I might take my chances.
With a banned driver you are at least talking about somebody who knows how to drive and has passed a test. They may even be an exemplary driver, when they're not getting drunk.
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Well, it began on a speeding conviction, but has digressed somewhat, as these things have a tendency of doing....http://threads.lro.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forum&Number=718336&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=all
Jeez ... not a nice place over there :shock:
Which is part and parcel of what makes MC what it is. Our Mods very rarely need to step in and members playing by the "rules" make it a nice place to be.
I can't think of any other fora where flame wars aren't a daily occurence.
I don't think we've even got near a flame war in the two and a half years we've been running.
Not so much to do with the Admin and Moderators but the members.
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Well, that depends on how long you'd have to wait. If both vehicles were there with the engines revving, I'd opt for the ambulance. But I'm currently in a fairly remote village in Devon, and I'd say it would take at least 20 minutes to get an ambulance here, so I might take my chances.
If you're in Devon, and it's that remote, chances are they would send one of the Air Ambulances :wink:
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For me I feel that if you're banned then you're banned.
If you're caught driving while banned then you should get a ban for life as you've demonstrated you have no respect for the laws of the road or the other people who use them, so why should be given the privilage back?
Get caught a second time and lock 'em up as they are a danger to public!
With regards to drink driving:
0% blood/alchohol limit on the roads, that way everyone knows the limit they can drink too and still pass the test and be safe to drive!
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For me I feel that if you're banned then you're banned.
If you're caught driving while banned then you should get a ban for life as you've demonstrated you have no respect for the laws of the road or the other people who use them, so why should be given the privilage back?
Get caught a second time and lock 'em up as they are a danger to public!
With regards to drink driving:
0% blood/alchohol limit on the roads, that way everyone knows the limit they can drink too and still pass the test and be safe to drive!
I thought I was the only idiot who thought like that.
A driving license is not a fundamental human right, it is a privilege, and it should be considered as such. If you drive while banned, you should be sent to prison, full stop. It is not a case of wether it should be acceptable or not. It is against the law, and it is against common sense.
Oh, and regarding that argument "they could have been fine drivers before being disqualified" and such, my reply is short and concise: "MANURE!!!!" (read it as you like).
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I have to say, if you're banned, you're banned. End of.
But, if I were in that situation (for whatever reason) and my daughter or wife needed urgent medical attention there would be nothing that anybody could do to stop me getting behind the wheel of a car in order to drive them to it.
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Oh, and regarding that argument "they could have been fine drivers before being disqualified" and such, my reply is short and concise: "MANURE!!!!" (read it as you like).
I think you're referring to my post, and if so, then you misunderstood what I said.
In the context of a banned driver driving somebody to hospital in the event of a dire emergency, it's wrong to assume that because they are banned, they're a lousy driver. I imagine as many good drivers get banned as lousy drivers, if they're banned for driving whilst drunk, for example. I make no criticism of the fact that people are banned; I'm wholeheartedly behind the idea. But at the same time, if I were being rushed to hospital on death's door by a banned driver, I think it's a fallacy to assume they were necessarily also a bad driver.
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But at the same time, if I were being rushed to hospital on death's door by a banned driver, I think it's a fallacy to assume they were necessarily also a bad driver.
Except I wouldnt be very happy if your "banned driver" then crashed into me injuring me and my family, or even our lives. As they wouldnt have any suitable cover and I would be in a biggest pile of doggy doo.
If you banned, your banned, if you drive whilst banned, you need your hands cutting off. It is not worth the risk to any other member of the public. And people should think about that first before they commit the crime to get banned in the first place.
Quite simply. If your driving, do not drink "anything" alcoholic.
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I wasn't making reference to your post, Thermidor. That's the excuse I got from a chap in my company caught driving while disqualified.
He should not be banned because he is a good driver. The fact that he persistently tailgated other cars until he did it with an unmarked police car that stopped him and breathalized him did not make him a bad driver in any way.
I was just ranting. And I would be the first to rush to the car even if disqualified, if my wife or little girl needed emergency treatment. But if I got caught, I would have no one but myself to blame.
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Except I wouldnt be very happy if your "banned driver" then crashed into me injuring me and my family, or even our lives. As they wouldnt have any suitable cover and I would be in a biggest pile of doggy doo.
At the risk of repeating myself (see above), this isn't necessarily the case regarding insurance, although I do take your point.
If I were hit and injured by a driver, the biggest concern would be what happened to me, not whether they were insured or not. A friend of mine was seriously injured by a normal driver, and it's screwed up his life, regardless of the fact that the other driver was fully insured, because although he lost his job and his house, he's not seen any compensation, and this happened 4 years ago. The insurance seems very much secondary to the nature of the event, to me.
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I wasn't making reference to your post, Thermidor.
Oh - sorry!
But if I got caught, I would have no one but myself to blame.
Totally agree. Like you, I don't see it as an excuse, but I can see circumstances where it would appear to be the lesser of two evils.
Without wanting this debate to get out of hand - let's say somebody is out laning with a friend, whose vehicle he's not insured to drive (not all policies cover you third-party on other vehicles). The friend has a severe allergic reaction to a bee sting and needs a tracheotomy / adrenaline / antihistamines otherwise they may well die, and they are out of mobile reception.
Should this person drive the vehicle illegally and without insurance, and risk the consequences, or should they run several miles to try to get mobile reception, by which time the friend may be dead? I know which I'd do, in those circumstances.
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With regards to drink driving:
0% blood/alchohol limit on the roads, that way everyone knows the limit they can drink too and still pass the test and be safe to drive!
Agreed in principal; but how do you deal with the person who has a few drinks on Friday night, and on Saturday morning has a small amount (less than the current limit, but >0%) of alcohol in their bloodstream?
I think the most effective way so far to combat drink driving has been to make it socially unacceptable; to many (most) groups of people it now is. I think they should re-run those "he's an as****e" adverts which were on telly a few Christmases ago.
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I agree with many of the other setiments that if you are prepared to do the crime you should do the time or ban as in this case.
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do the crime and do the time
if you need to drive for a life or deth thing then do so and admit it to the cop shop and see what thay say about it ..........
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I thionkk that in real "extreme" circumstances, anything is acceptable, not just driving while banned.
Take a look at the Gary Glitter scenario. Caught once as a paed, do some time. Caught a second time .... kill him, he'll never change. Circumstances will always dictate the necessary action regardless of what that may be.
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Agreed in principal; but how do you deal with the person who has a few drinks on Friday night, and on Saturday morning has a small amount (less than the current limit, but >0%) of alcohol in their bloodstream?
Easy: If you know you have to drive the following morning, don't drink the night before! :wink:
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I voted for in an emergency.
I've no problem in explaining to a Judge if I were banned that I drove purely to save the life of another. This would be the only time I'd ever consider it. I'd even call the police and tell them prior to setting off.
I too have lived in the Country and whilst we were fortunate and when an Ambulance was required it found us, on a different occasion the house was allight and Fire and Rescue couldn't find us. We could hear them driving up and down the nearest main road with Blues and twos.
Dad was less than impressed, "Glad your here, we've been keeping it going for you!", he was a tad tense at this point. They had been out no less than a month before and attended the address to do a survey as we had a Massive Calor gas tank on site. So you can't rely on Emergency services being able to find you in the wilds even when they know where you are.
There seems to be some presumption in some replys that if you do drive in an Emergency whilst banned then you must also be drunk. Many people are banned as a result of totting up offences, including are beloved Gatsos.
With regards to driving whilst banned to save a life and not being insured then it's a question of proportionality. Again many replys seem to assume your going to crash and kill/mame some one on route to hosptial/help. You would have to be having the mother of all days for that to happen!
Given the choice of standing in Church asking myself if my driving would have made a difference, I'd rather do 6 months.
I've never been in Prison, never been banned and the views are expressly my own and not of my employer for those who know me. :D
Would you pour water on to some one on fire in a drowt if it were the only bucket of water in the village :?
Lee D
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Budgie, with you ALL the way on your comments--Cogs
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Agreed in principal; but how do you deal with the person who has a few drinks on Friday night, and on Saturday morning has a small amount (less than the current limit, but >0%) of alcohol in their bloodstream?
Easy: If you know you have to drive the following morning, don't drink the night before! :wink:
As many of us do. I can't afford to lose my licence, therefore, I don't risk it for the sake of a few pints.
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Hi
He should not be banned because he is a good driver. The fact that he persistently tailgated other cars until he did it with an unmarked police car that stopped him and breathalized him did not make him a bad driver in any way
I don't imderstand this sentence - how can anyone who persistently tailgates be a good driver - a tailgater is a crap driver hassling other people. Brake in an emergency and he is in your boot.
And regards to driving whilst banned - i can't say no in any circumstances as if my kids needed emergency treatment and the only way was me as a banned driver - i would do it.
However i hope to never be in that situation and i feel much the same as the others on this forum - cars are lethal weapons and should be treated with respect, this is not highlighted enuff to new drivers.
regards
ela
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Hi
He should not be banned because he is a good driver. The fact that he persistently tailgated other cars until he did it with an unmarked police car that stopped him and breathalized him did not make him a bad driver in any way
I don't imderstand this sentence - how can anyone who persistently tailgates be a good driver - a tailgater is a crap driver hassling other people. Brake in an emergency and he is in your boot.
I think it's ment as a sarcastic remark Ela!! :wink:
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Hi
He should not be banned because he is a good driver. The fact that he persistently tailgated other cars until he did it with an unmarked police car that stopped him and breathalized him did not make him a bad driver in any way
Ela, the way I understood it was the banned blokes own " logic" as to why he 'didn't deserve the ban'; fairly similar to the drink driver who prompted me to post the poll.
Basically, I think anyone who has been banned will have some purile excuse as to why their ban is not their fault!! :(thinkhard):
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as a so called professional driver (hgv) (meany people think we aint and just call us wat thay want ect ect ) i dont think by far iam the best driver in the country but i do think that i have a good judement on other road users seeing some of the things ive seen in 20yrs on the road 15 beeing hgv driveing i wish i could be the law with the things ive seen just cus some one likes to put there boot down now agine letts face it we all do some time or other wether in car van bus truck and yes i know trucks and busses are fitted with speed limiters but there is allways a way around them but when it comes to drinkin beeing on the fone or genral reclesness then take the valueble bit of paper from your hand and yes for extreem emergency drive if its life and death i rember years ago a 8y/o driveing his grandad to hospital with a hart attack
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Ela, what Budgie and Janie said :D
Whenever I talk to someone who has been fined/banned/given points (and in my company, where most of the blokes come from somewhere deep in Essex there are a lot :D) they always blame the Police for their misfortune. The fact that they jumped a red light, drove on a bus lane or sped past a camera is not their fault, they have been setup by the police, deliberately trying to get them.
Oh, and they are the best drivers in the world.