Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: gords on June 27, 2006, 21:22:57
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My Discovery 300TDi ES (1994 M) went for it's MOT today and failed in spectacular style :(
Some of the problems were expected, but it looks like the list is making it uneconomical for me to have fixed.
The list:- Horn does not function
- Parking brake has no reserve travel
- Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault
- centre front steering damper seal failed and leaking oil
- Nearside registration lamp not working
- Power steering component(s) leaking
- Offside rear shock absorber has negligible damping effect
- Offside rear shock absorber has a serious fluid leak
- Nearside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped
- Offside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped
- Nearside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing
- Offside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing
- Parking brake efficiency below requirements
On top of these MOT failures, it also has a coolant leak somewhere, the gearbox is very notchy, the air-con pump (?) may be on it's way out, at least one UJ needs replacing and the engine smokes!
... all in all, a bit [!Expletive Deleted!] :shock:
So, what do people think is my best option?
1. Repair it?
2. Sell it as it is for what ever I can get?
3. Strip the offroad extras and sell seperately?
4. Break and sell the bits?
The extras are:
4 x 235/85-16 BFG Mud Terrains
+1" springs
ES9000 shock absorbers (I would get the faulty one replaced)
Scorpion winch bumper
Southdown tank guard and tow kit
QT diff quards
LR Short roof rack
Ladder
Dog guard
All suggestions, estimates on prices, etc most welcome...
Mods - sorry if this should be in the Discovery topic, but I wanted as many people to see it as possible. Move it if you need to though.
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There's nothing too scary on that list Gords :-) Chin up - I haven't MOT'd Piglet yet as I am looking at at least £900 if I replace the cracked Y-Pipe ... feeling better yet????
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to be honest
a couple of days with some replacement bits and i would hazard a guess that the majority can be sorted
horn cable maybe dislodged and the number plate bulb is easily replaceable
i would think replacing the shocks wouldnt be too expensive if you arent fussed on top spec
i didnt think the smoke would fail the test but the emissions?
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In general, the MOT failure list is not all bad but the ABS light is a continuing problem. The sensors won't stay in the right place and I'm told that it could be a very expensive job to fix!?
As well as the MOT issues, it's the other issues as well. All this on top of a few previous heavy garage bills. Unfortunately, I don't have a garage where I can work on the car, nor do I really have the time :roll:
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Anti lock abs system............ probably just a dirty/fouled sensor.
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Anti lock abs system............ probably just a dirty/fouled sensor.
No, it's happened quite a few times before - the sensor moves (or gets pushed out) and the air gap becomes too big. Push them back in and it's OK for a while.
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In general, the MOT failure list is not all bad but the ABS light is a continuing problem. The sensors won't stay in the right place and I'm told that it could be a very expensive job to fix!?
As well as the MOT issues, it's the other issues as well. All this on top of a few previous heavy garage bills. Unfortunately, I don't have a garage where I can work on the car, nor do I really have the time :roll:
:lol: :lol: You posted to quick, missed this one :lol: .
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Gords,
If your bearings are rough I'm not surprised your sensors are working their way out.....cause and effect.
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Unfortunately, I don't have a garage where I can work on the car, nor do I really have the time :roll:
Get it trailered up to Billing and I'm sure there'll be a few of us that can help out for a long weekend . . . :wink:
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Studlock will hold the sensors in under normal conditions, and the ABS is the only expensive thing on your list
There is a way round the ABS for mot purposes as well........involves a bit of wiring but a cheap and quick way to get that bit of paper...
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- Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault
for the MOT just put a piece of black insulation tape over the ABS light, I have never had a problem, put loads of Vehicles through like it. :lol:
I know it is a bodge but it works :wink:
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If you need to save on garage bills gords let me know have spanners will travel :wink:
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Quick fix quide from somebody who's relatively useless with a spanner:
Horn does not function - probably wiring/earth, rip it off and fit an air-horn (keep BTM happy and fit a dukes of hazard one)
Parking brake has no reserve travel - tighten it :roll:
Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault - err, i'll pass on that one, but it sounds liek you can already fix it for long enough for the MOT
centre front steering damper seal failed and leaking oil - take it off (it's the fact that it's leakking that failing you) or replace it for £10-£15
Nearside registration lamp not working - bulb?
Power steering component(s) leaking - errrrrrrrrrr - no!
Offside rear shock absorber has negligible damping effect £30 from paddocks - really easy to change the rears
Offside rear shock absorber has a serious fluid leak - see above
Nearside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped - cable ties
Offside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped - more cable ties
Nearside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing
Offside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing
For both - new bearings, about £10 a piece, and this might help your
ABS problem
Parking brake efficiency below requirements - see above (tighten it).
So nothing there too problamatical, except the steering which would depend on where it is leaking.
So I vote for a FIX IT!
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- Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault
for the MOT just put a piece of black insulation tape over the ABS light, I have never had a problem, put loads of Vehicles through like it. :lol:
I know it is a bodge but it works :wink:
Err, no it won't, as the light comes on with the ignition and goes off at 5MPH!
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Got to agree, it looks like a lot, but most of it is easily sorted
Horn does not function - probably wiring/earth, rip it off and fit an air-horn (keep BTM happy and fit a dukes of hazard one)
Be nice, but musicals are illegal on a post 1.1.73 registration :cry: (or I'd have them myself
Standard mono-tone twin air-horns are only about £12.00
centre front steering damper seal failed and leaking oil - take it off (it's the fact that it's leakking that failing you) or replace it for £10-£15
Nearside registration lamp not working - bulb?
Power steering component(s) leaking - errrrrrrrrrr - no!
Offside rear shock absorber has negligible damping effect £30 from paddocks - really easy to change the rears
Offside rear shock absorber has a serious fluid leak - see above
Nearside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped - cable ties
Offside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped - more cable ties
Nearside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing
Offside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing
For both - new bearings, about £10 a piece, and this might help your
ABS problem
So I vote for a FIX IT!
Shockers seem to be available from about £10.00(?) mail order
Don't know about the bearing similarities,but I once used Series 3 wheel-bearings in my old 110Tdi as they were identical (but half the price)
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- Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault
for the MOT just put a piece of black insulation tape over the ABS light, I have never had a problem, put loads of Vehicles through like it. :lol:
I know it is a bodge but it works :wink:
Err, no it won't, as the light comes on with the ignition and goes off at 5MPH!
Take the bulb out :D
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- Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault
for the MOT just put a piece of black insulation tape over the ABS light, I have never had a problem, put loads of Vehicles through like it. :lol:
I know it is a bodge but it works :wink:
Err, no it won't, as the light comes on with the ignition and goes off at 5MPH!
Take the bulb out :D
it will still fail :wink:
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Shockers seem to be available from about £10.00(?) mail order
You can get cheap ones, but Gords has the Procomp ES9000's already so I was working on the basis that he'd want the same.
But another :idea: , could you claim on the warranty for the shock? don't they have a lifetime warranty :?
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hmm :lol:
i need a job,
you need your disco fixed
what would you pay me to come down n do it?
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nothing but a weekends work there. 'brake pipe not clipped'? thats not even a proper job, that will take all of 5 seconds to fix.
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The rear shock has a lifetime warranty, so that can be replaced.
The handbrake needs stripping down and investigating as the adjuster does not work/tighten.
Wheel bearings just need replacing (I expect).
I agree, most of this is fairly easy to fix but I don't have the time to do it, plus there is the list of other problems lurking about ... and it just makes me worried that more problems are waiting to spring on me!
It's just getting a bit boring spending shedloads of money on the car just to keep it on the road - leaving me no money for winches, bumpers, etc.
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nothing but a weekends work there. 'brake pipe not clipped'? thats not even a proper job, that will take all of 5 seconds to fix.
Yes, it probably would ... but that's not really the issue here! In the time I've had this car (< 2 years?), I've probably spent the purchase price again on job after job after job :evil: And it still goes on ... the gearbox is on it's way out and the engine is chucking out more and more black smoke. It doesn't appear to have been an MOT issue, but it's not right!
This is my only car and I need to drive it most days, so as of Saturday I have a bit of a problem :roll:
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Repair it and stick with it.
Off roading takes its toll but its money well spent.
Thats about my usual annual list but the way I see it, how many 200,000 km, 1993 vehicles are still going?
My car's market value has dropped dramatically and depreciation makes buying new laughable. Spread all those bills over the lifetime of the car and it dont seem so bad.
I also believe that MOT plays a valuable role as a 3rd party safety check for most part time off-roaders but without a doubt the tightening of MOT standards is making life dearer :wink:
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Err, no it won't, as the light comes on with the ignition and goes off at 5MPH!
Er Gords ... that is what it is SUPPOSED to do. IF that is the "fault" then I'm afraid the only fault is that someone hasn't read the handbook, or the MOT tester has never had an ABS equpped Discovery in before.
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Have you used this MOT station much before? Do they have much knowledge of Land Rovers?
I would be inclined to have a look for a Land Rover independent or a 4x4 garage with a test station.
Although saying that, like you say the failure points are likely just the tip of the iceberg, you're probably looking at a £6-700 bill for the gearbox if you don't DIY plus the smoking and coolant loss issues (which could possibly be cylinder head related with a similar bill to the gearbox).
I have the same problem with mine being the everyday car and no access to other transport so it is imperative that it is maintained. I keep looking at these cheap little couple of hundred pound runabouts as something to keep in the garage for when the disco breaks down or even to use for work and keep the disco as the weekend car but I can't make the figures stack up yet when you take insurance and all the rest into consideration.
In my opinion, if I were in your situation, I would be seriously considering something along the lines of stripping all the hardware and putting in the shed and breaking the car to finance a reasonable everyday car with a few quid for an older disco to play at weekends.
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Err, no it won't, as the light comes on with the ignition and goes off at 5MPH!
Er Gords ... that is what it is SUPPOSED to do. IF that is the "fault" then I'm afraid the only fault is that someone hasn't read the handbook, or the MOT tester has never had an ABS equpped Discovery in before.
What Gords means is that putting tape over the light/taking the bulb out will not work BECAUSE the light is supposed to come on with the ignition & then go out..... and the MOT tester knows this, so if it doesn't come on at all it's not working
Two ways round it: remove all sensors & disconnect all ABS connectors - vehicle is no longer ABS equipped, so no longer a fail (remove bulb if neccessary). Or wire a time- delay relay into the bulb circuit - as long as the light comes on with the ignition & goes out after a few seconds the tester will be none the wiser.
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Well, the current plan is to take it off the road this weekend (MOT expires Friday) and for me to fix as much as I can. The garage can do anything I can't manage.
Then once it has an MOT, sell it.
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Well if your selling it will you replace it?
my thinking is some landies get some serouis abuse ie rock climbing in wales so yes things will break and need replacing etc I think it goes with off roading and every has to expect it so if you replace it expect to spend the same again repairing it etc
Mine will need a new front axle rusted around the hockey stick, rear axle needs to replaced oil leaking along the seem but i will replace them
Just my thoughts
Darren
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Well if your selling it will you replace it?
Yes, probably ... with what I don't know yet.
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If I hadnt just put the deposit down on a disco, and didnt already have 2 MOTless motors on the inlaws drive I'd have been interested in buying it without a test!
As it is it looks all pretty simple mechanical stuff, none of the dreaded tinplating :) A lot of MOT testers will fail landy ABS, I ended up "training" a tester by showing him in the owners manual that the warning light does not go out until you get moving along.
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If I hadnt just put the deposit down on a disco, and didnt already have 2 MOTless motors on the inlaws drive I'd have been interested in buying it without a test!
and what might you have offered? A serious question ... feel free to PM if you'd prefer.
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Gords
I might be interested as well!!!
Darren
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I might be interested as well!!!
well, make me an offer then :wink:
Let me know if the offer is for "with" or "without" MOT.
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The ABS light comes on as a bulb test with the ignition, the ABS is in diagnostic mode then untill it sees all 4 sensors record over 5mph at which point it goes out. Strictly speaking as the car will not be driven in the MOT bay this cannot be checked, it's a loophole.
If the sensors keep recording air gap to big and you are finding they are moving it's becasue they have been disturbed and should have had a new retaining clip fitted. I've not done this yet but it's supposed to be easy. The wheel bearings will not be helping matters but we all know how easy they are to do, don't we Tim :wink:
As for the leaks, try my mate here http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Dukeries-Engineering-Ltd. the PAS stop leak works!
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As for the leaks, try my mate here http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Dukeries-Engineering-Ltd. the PAS stop leak works!
Err, that link doesn't work...
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As for the leaks, try my mate here http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Dukeries-Engineering-Ltd. the PAS stop leak works!
Err, that link doesn't work...
Funny, it did when I posted. Ok try this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Power-Steering-Stop-Leak-That-works-PAS-Seals-Etc_W0QQitemZ4616648346QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and then go to the shop for anything else you need.
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I think the following are easy fixes, parts are relatively cheap and the work easy to do at home. For me that makes it repairable.
- Horn does not function - Earthing or replace with Halfords special (£10?)
- Parking brake has no reserve travel - Re-adjust
- Anti-lock braking system warning lamp indicates an ABS fault[/color]
- centre front steering damper seal failed and leaking oil - Four nuts and a new damper (£20 to £40 depending on preference)
- Nearside registration lamp not working - How much is a bulb these days?!
- Power steering component(s) leaking[/color]
- Offside rear shock absorber has negligible damping effect - Change it or the pair (£20 to £40 each depending on preference)
- Offside rear shock absorber has a serious fluid leak - See above
- Nearside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped - buy some clips/zip ties!
- Offside rear brake pipe inadequately clipped - See above
- Nearside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing - Replace, takes about 3-6 hours per wheel depending on how many hammers you have :wink: (£10 to £20 per wheel depending on source)
- Offside rear wheel bearing excessive roughness in rear wheel bearing - See above
- Parking brake efficiency below requirements - NEw shoes, drum & transfer box seal (as it's probably leaking into drum affecting grip) again. relatively easy to do and pretty cheap (£30 tho £50 depending on source but including new handbrake cable if necessary)
Might take a few weeks to do it at home but for minimal effort you've solved the biggest part of the list leaving some spare cash :lol: to spend on the more serious bits!
Good luck
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I think the following are easy fixes, parts are relatively cheap and the work easy to do at home. For me that makes it repairable.
As I've said previously, it's not necessarily the MOT failure list - it's the list of stuff that's happened before and the list of stuff still looming.
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I think the following are easy fixes, parts are relatively cheap and the work easy to do at home. For me that makes it repairable.
As I've said previously, it's not necessarily the MOT failure list - it's the list of stuff that's happened before and the list of stuff still looming.
sounds like a friday afternoon car :lol:
my frontera was like that. :(
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Dont bother with the garage route Gordon
Give Neal a shout.
He has offered :wink:
I've changed all my wheel bearing now (never done a wheel bearing in my life) and they wer'nt that hard.
I'd gladly help out too if you need a hand.
:D
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Dont bother with the garage route Gordon
It will only be a last resort but hopefully I can do everything ... with a little help from my friends :wink:
Give Neal a shout.
He has offered :wink:
Already have ... just waiting for him to check his schedule :wink:
I've changed all my wheel bearing now (never done a wheel bearing in my life) and they wer'nt that hard.
I'd gladly help out too if you need a hand.
:D
What you doing this weekend? :D
The plan is to take it off the road tomorrow (actually, I don't have any choice!) and do the work myself (-ish, see above). Unfortunately, the (warranty replacement) shock absorber is out of stock until mid July, so it's going to be out of service for a few weeks :(
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These bloody MOT stations can really crank it up if they think your not savvy. . . . .
My daughters just been ripped off from a garage near Tregoyd just up the road from brecon . . . . . . i wouldent mind but id just give her the car an it was allways serviced. . . . . . [!Expletive Deleted!] must av seen er coming . . . . . .
apps for ranting but it makes me blood boil :x :x :x
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for a start i'd find a new MOT station... sounds like they don't know what they are doing, are REALY picky and quite possibly fishing for work, hoping you were going to ask them to fix it.... there are some real wa**ers out there.........
go to someone who does Landrovers regularly, i'd certainly recomend RJ Harvey in Essex but they are a bit far from you.
most of those faults can be solved with minimal money and time, wheel bearings are probably the cause of your ABS probs, and can be rebuilt in about 2 hours each side.
the handbrake drum needs removing and checking for oil leaks from the rear of the transfer box, then clean and sandpaper the inside of the drum and shoes, sanding increases the friction and helps it grip.
steam clean all the power steering fluid leaks...
i'm sure there are a few people on here that'll help you out, some have already offered... if i was a bit nearer i certainly would.
ask around for people to recomend a Landrover friendly MOT station.... i took my old 110 H/T to a local garage (not landrover friendly) a few years ago, who refused to test it as they said it was too heavy!!!!!
local Landy experts (RJ Harvey) tested it straight away.....
good luck, you will get sorted, and if you do want rid of it, it'll be easier to shift with a new MOT.....
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for a start i'd find a new MOT station... sounds like they don't know what they are doing, are REALY picky and quite possibly fishing for work, hoping you were going to ask them to fix it.... there are some real wa**ers out there.........
The car went to a garage first for a few tweaks and they took it to the MOT station. Both the garage and the MOT station have a good reputation (as far as I've heard) ... and I'm sure they are doing the MOT tests to the letter (and I'm fine with that)!
Unfortunately, we have a hosepipe ban so jet washing stuff is not possible! I might try Gunk (or similar) though.
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jet washes are not covered by the hosepipe ban...... theres a loophole in the law.... (might be wrong, but pretty sure i'm right)
i would find a landy friendly place and take it for the test yourself... its all well and good having stuff tested 'to the letter' but quite a bit of it is subjective, and a 'common sense' tester won't pass vehicles that are dangerous, but they might be a bit more realistic.... there are a lot of silly things on the MOT test, and if you get a tester who had a row with his mrs before work, or has been told to 'look for work' they can find all sorts of things wrong......
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Hi Gordon, don,t know if it is any help but if you can get the landy to Pauls barn I am sure we could sort out most of it for you and you can pick it up when its done.
On the other hand you do sound as if you have reached the point of giving up. This does happen often and to some of us more often than others :wink: . We all know that running a landie of any description is not cheap(fuel costs), they all need jobs doing,( all the time) :evil: parts are cheap enough but labour is not. Couple this with other nagging none MOT problems and a garage that sound as if they are short of work (HOLIDAY SEASON IS UPON THEM!!) and you can get really miffed off. If you can put up with the train for a while and can fund the bits that need replacing than we can have you back off the road (pun) in no time.
I do have some rangie power steering bits (and thay are all the same) I also might have the wheel barings and definatly have a steering damper laid about some where. All it will cost you is a 24 pack of Carlsberg.
The engine smoke though is either a fouled injector or a heater plug a very common problem on 300 tdi's and as long as the smoke is black this is all it will probobly be. The coolant leak is more likely the P gasket and this would be about £90 at a garage ie Joe Edwards. Gearbox though you are on your own I don't know much about them, I might hazard a guess or two if and when I see you. I could though also lend you an es9000 till your new on turns up as I happen to have a set that I wont be using for a while.
All said you do have to bear in mind though you will probably have a list as long next year, its how land rovers are and the way we drive them,
let me know Ian
wont bother again, it would have been polite to say no thankyou but to just ignore is rude in anyones book[b][/b]
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A Big Thank You to Neal (beast5680) for helping me with the wheel bearings today :D (plus a few other bits)
We also managed, against all odds, to clip the brake lines back into their holders on the axle - so that's another job off the list :lol:
The steering damper has been replaced. The ABS issue should also be cleared now the bearings are sorted. The defective horn has been removed (leaving the other working one). The rear shock has been removed pending the arrival of the (free) replacement.
The handbrake shoes have magically worn themselves away in a very short period of time :? a new set will be on order tomorrow.
The rear number plate bulb possibly does not work ... it's also possibly due to the fact that the holder has almost disintegrated :shock: Something else for the shopping list!
So, that just leaves the steering box ... a job for another day.
If anyone has a left hand horn or a number plate bulb holder, let me know :)
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Glad to have been of assistance Gordon :D
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Well, out of the blue, the replacement shock turned up today :shock: That was a quick 2 - 3 weeks :roll:
I'm getting worried ... things are going far too well ... ooh I shouldn't have said that ... poop, I already have :lol:
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I love it when a plan comes together
Indeed
8)
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wont bother again, it would have been polite to say no thankyou but to just ignore is rude in anyones book[b][/b]
Ian - I thought I had sent you a Private Message, but it appears that I hadn't :oops:
Please accept my apology for not replying to you - your offer was very kind, but it wasn't feasable due to my work commitments, etc.