Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: bezzabsa on March 29, 2007, 15:45:15
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as a biker as well as a 4x4'er this report just hits totally the wrong spot.....read the max speed proposed :evil:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/29032007/325/motorcycle-top-speeds-capped.html
where will it all stop???????
wouldnt mind but all the extra training we have to go through compared to car drivers...and if they cap bikes speed when will they do cars? all hgv's are done - 7.5 tonners are in the process.... :evil: :evil: :evil:
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You might as well buy a moped!
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ive heard that on the news today too, i must agree though its a good idea for young inexpereinced riders, like the boy racers getting their rs turbos and like, there should be a test to prove experience (on private grounds)
But i'd take that would open a whole new argument.
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Can't see this coming in too soon, but can understand it on some roads. 65mph seems a little low, I'd have said 90mph but then it's entirely down to the rider riding at speeds suitable for the road and conditions at the end of the day. If we all stick to the speed limits this wouldn't be an issue, unfortunately many don't and end up as the stats they quote.
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it will never happen... but weve said that about too many things.
They seem to miss the entire point. Most accidents on bikes have nowt to do with speed. Most are at well under the national limit and involve short sighted car drivers. There ive said it car drivers dont see bikes...i mean ive been knocked off twice and i may as well have been invisible....and no i wasnt speeding and both took place at less than 50 mph.
so how would you feel if your car was limited to 62?? youd tell em to sod off sharpish!
they will never be able to resrict my little bike.
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I also read somewhere (i am trying to find out where) that an insurance company statistic said that the majority of accidents involving motorbikes and cars ended being the motorbike riders fault.
I say they should be limited, as with cars as well, there is no need to go above 70mph as that is the top speed limit in this country.
And no, i generally dont like bikers as their attitude generally stinks and i am fed up with nearly running them over because they think the lines between lanes are a special lane for them.
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jobsworth. nuff said
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Living in Wales a popular blogspot is the chief Plod's one, one reads it to see who will be targeted next
Went on recently and he wants a complete ban on all motorbikes on all roads in the National parks cause he does not like the noise when he is walking in the countryside
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I also read somewhere (i am trying to find out where) that an insurance company statistic said that the majority of accidents involving motorbikes and cars ended being the motorbike riders fault.
I say they should be limited, as with cars as well, there is no need to go above 70mph as that is the top speed limit in this country.
And no, i generally dont like bikers as their attitude generally stinks and i am fed up with nearly running them over because they think the lines between lanes are a special lane for them.
How many bikers do you know or have talked to? I know dozens and i used to work for one of the biggest dealers in the UK. I find them a very friendly buncg who are quite often into 4x4's as well. You may be suprised how many on here are also bikers or were bikers.
please dont give out possibly miss remembered quotes from fictional stats...we should all know by now there are lies, dmaned lies and statistics.
What next a maximum tyre size or a cc limit to cars?
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So then a vehicle should not be limited to the top speed allowed in this country?
Also it was a statistic issued by one of the major insurance companies, and it was something that was definately quoted as being said.
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I also read somewhere (i am trying to find out where) that an insurance company statistic said that the majority of accidents involving motorbikes and cars ended being the motorbike riders fault.
I say they should be limited, as with cars as well, there is no need to go above 70mph as that is the top speed limit in this country.
And no, i generally dont like bikers as their attitude generally stinks and i am fed up with nearly running them over because they think the lines between lanes are a special lane for them.
Filtering between lanes is one of the reasons we love bikes - and YES it is legal..I find most of your statement slightly offensive - and quite bigoted..imagine if someone posted that on here but instead of BIKER they placed 4x4 driver?? We are all entitled to our ownm opinions - but i think yours would be better kept to yourself, as Bulli has stated 99% of bikers are the kind of everyday person that you wouldnt give a 2nd look to....I darent post anymore as I think it would be moderated to death..
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I can see both sides. I've had to shoehorm one or more bikers out of the sides of things they've hit because they were being an arse and racing. I've been hit by a biker doing 70, in a 30mph limit, in thick fog and no lights, hard enough to bend a Ford Cortina. Then again I've sene the same happening with chav-mobiles.
I've also been taken off my bike enough times I gave up and sold it. More than once I ended up sat on som old ladys bonnet wondering where my bike was. I've also sat in 26+ plus heat in a jam with the TL's exhausts slowly roasting my backside, do it once and you decide that hell yes, you will use that empty space between cars.
Limiting them, yes and no, the TL had an insane top speed and I wouldnt mind if either that OR the Audi were restricted to 120MPH as many veichles from Europe are (Audi was 'unlocked' for track days). If the limit is low you start to run into sutuations where overtaking starts to get REALLY dangerous.
At the end of the day, cars, bikes and importantly (and I REALLY wish people would get this into their head) speed do not kill people, people do!
Bikers are like any group, they will respond badly to people that try and convince them that they are wrong, hmm, just like us 4x4 owners.
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At the end of the day, cars, bikes and importantly (and I REALLY wish people would get this into their head) speed do not kill people, people do!
Too right! Cars, bikes, buses, etc are all inanimate objects and as such cannot possibly be dangerous in their own right. They only become so once you install the last nut during assembly....... the one behind the wheel or bars!
I've always maintained that speed doesn't kill, it's the misuse of speed that kills. Pretty much what you said in a different way.
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...could not see why anyone needed a bike with a top speed of more than 65 mph...
...and what's the motorway speed limit again? Yes, it's 70.
What the ol' government needs to undertsand is that not everyone keeps their cars/bikes/4x4s on the road. You can't say "...well, you must have it limited to 70 because you shouldn't be going faster than that anyway..." because many bikers use their machines on track days and suchlike, where 70mph will get you nowhere. As, do we need bigger tyres, wider track widths and more powerful engines for when we compete in 4x4 challenges.
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Nice to see this was unlocked - Thank you to whoever did ;).
The original point of this thread was to show that its Not only 4x4-ers that are seen as social leppers..Bikers have had that honor for years...and the other thread seems to bear out this point quite nicely!
Bikers train more just to get a licence - you have the horrors of CBT (COMPULSARY BASIC TRAINING - something that I think car drivers would benefit from) - then the Theory test - Hazard perception test - and then the actual test - and if you are under 21 - ANOTHER test to ride Large machines - Over 500cc....So in theory we should be safer road users...So if the same Training Ethic was applied to car drivers the roads would be an infinately safer place for ALL road users.
Only problem is If car drivers had to endure Power limits - and more training the 'Do-gooders' would have a fit!!! and claim Breach of human rights - and freedom of choice.
Which brings me back to the original point - if we CHOOSE to ride a Motorcycle - then we have the right to choose what size of bike we want to ride, and if that bike can exceed the national speed limit - then so be it - Do we hear a fuss if a 17 year old passes his test and then gets brought a 1 ton chunk of metal that is capable of speeds in excess of the national speed limit??????
Im all for safer roads - but through instruction rather than exclusion.
Rant over - For a while anyway ;)
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I agree with many of the comments above. Better tuition for car drivers (perhaps even guidance and tuition on how to handle a bike when it starts to slide?), and a better system is what is needed.
I say they should be limited, as with cars as well, there is no need to go above 70mph as that is the top speed limit in this country.
Are you mad? :shock:
The legal limit is there. But, there still remains that little word that is quickly disappearing in today's society called "Choice".
Oh, and you do sound awfully like an anti, especially with a little editing to show you how you really sound.
And no, i generally dont like 4x4 drivers as their attitude generally stinks and i am fed up with nearly ran off the road because they think the roads are for them only.
No offence of course. :wink:
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No offence taken, but like with everything everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it doesnt fit in with what other people think.
No i dont like what anti's say about 4x4 drivers and our vehicles, but i have never had a problem with their personal opinion.
And to the person who quoted about "choice", it is my choice to be anti motorbike, and when i said about the white lines i mean between 2 cars travelling side by side on a motorway and a motorbike goes between them.
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Limiting speed, umm .... those little scooter things that are all the rage at the moment, they do 30mph if you're lucky. That's fine in and around town, but it's far from ideal (or in any way safe) outside of town!
Limit all bikes to 70mph (or what ever speed)? Well, they can still do 70mph down the High Street or past the School gates! So where is the point in limiting the speed?
You can't legislate for idiots!
Oh yes, riding between cars on the motorway ... if there is space and it's done at a reasonable (relative) speed, then it's perfectly safe. Doing it at 60mph when the cars are doing 30mph is a death wish.
By the way, when I commuted around the M25 on a bike I lost count of how many drivers (while moving) were reading a map, a paper, a book :shock: , directions, putting on make-up, etc, etc :evil:
When I rode (daily, all year round, all weathers), I considered that every single vehicle was out to knock me off - and it seemed like they tried daily!
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No offence taken, but like with everything everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it doesnt fit in with what other people think.
No i dont like what anti's say about 4x4 drivers and our vehicles, but i have never had a problem with their personal opinion.
And to the person who quoted about "choice", it is my choice to be anti motorbike, and when i said about the white lines i mean between 2 cars travelling side by side on a motorway and a motorbike goes between them.
Well if we didn't have idiots constantly changing from one lane to the next because he/she is fed up of driving at 20mph when the next lane is travelling at 21mph. Motorcycles filtering would be a perfectly safe practise. Oh and those shiny things on the sides of the car mirrors I think they're called and those orange flashy things if every driver used them correctly. you know mirror signal manouvre. I can't see why filtering would ever be a problem.
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Trouble is we live in a world run by idiots, it would appear the over-riding requirement for a politician to open their faces about somehting is to know nothing about the subject or be massively prejudiced against it.
Then I say that no-one who wants to be a politician should ever be allowed to hold office.
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when i said about the white lines i mean between 2 cars travelling side by side on a motorway and a motorbike goes between them.
Ok point taken its a silly manouver to do, its something i wouldn't do, just like that Vectra that pulled out in front of my disco exiting from a fuel station last week causing me to stand on my brakes.
But why are 2 cars driving down the motorway side by side, unless they are overtaking they should be in the inside lane (the one on the far left btw) so is that not a silly manouver in its own right.
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when i said about the white lines i mean between 2 cars travelling side by side on a motorway and a motorbike goes between them.
Ok point taken its a silly manouver to do, its something i wouldn't do, just like that Vectra that pulled out in front of my disco exiting from a fuel station last week causing me to stand on my brakes.
But why are 2 cars driving down the motorway side by side, unless they are overtaking they should be in the inside lane (the one on the far left btw) so is that not a silly manouver in its own right.
it is indeed and I'm amazed at the number of times I have trundelled down the inside lane at 70mph whilst happily undertaking everyone sitting in the middle lane at 60/65mph. And before anyone tells me what I'm doing is illegal the Highway code states the following
"traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
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if you in a car doing 55 overtaking a car doing 50 your going to be side by side. the last time i nearly took out a motorcyclist was when i was overtaking a van, i was doing 70 and a gust of wind took me sideways, i missed the biker (who was between me and the van at the time on the white lines) by milimetres.
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I say they should be limited, as with cars as well, there is no need to go above 70mph as that is the top speed limit in this country.
So if we limit your RR to a top speed of 70mph - that'll be going down hill of course - how fast do you reckon you'll be going to get back up it?
To limit speed you have to limit power, that is why every vehicle can go faster than the max sppeed limits in any country :roll:
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You dont have to limit power to limit speed. :roll:
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You dont have to limit power to limit speed. :roll:
my 220 bhp scania does 54 - as does the 340 bhp scania we have - only difference is he does it uphill too!!
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If you read my posts about the speed limiters i said all vehicles should be limited to 70mph max, which yes includes my range rover.
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If you read my posts about the speed limiters i said all vehicles should be limited to 70mph max, which yes includes my range rover.
Did you read my post?
What the ol' government needs to undertsand is that not everyone keeps their cars/bikes/4x4s on the road. You can't say "...well, you must have it limited to 70 because you shouldn't be going faster than that anyway..." because many bikers use their machines on track days and suchlike, where 70mph will get you nowhere. As, do we need bigger tyres, wider track widths and more powerful engines for when we compete in 4x4 challenges than would be needed on the road.
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bager rover have you taken your bike test in the last five years?
I'm guessing you have'nt as you seem to be a bit over anti biker.i will grant you that in the biking world there are some morons manly on sports bikes but that is a very sml number. As like most 4x4 onwers most are good fellows who do follow the law.Have you heard of the term road craft'that is a big part of the bike training and if you talk to alot ot bikers they will tell you that passing there bike test has made them a better car drivers as they have become more in tuned to whats going on around them.
Ive seen some real crap driving by 4x4 motors but that dos'nt mean all 4x4 drivers are morons behind 3 tonnes of motor.
You seem to me like the kind of bloke who while in a traffic jam would stay as far over right as to block a bike from filtering through just because you think its your lane
Iv'e lost good friends to bike crashes and guess what the car driver said they didnt see them same excuse every time.I'm no saint on my bike or in my landrover but i don't ever put others or my self in danger maybe if you tryed to ride a motor bike around our roads you might change your mind and see what its really like instead of giving off your anti biker views.
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There is idiots in all motoring i just think singling out one type is wrong, I had a car written of by some young morron in a ford ka, http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=27195&highlight= but i don't go off on one about 20 something year old's or ford ka's it was one individual, who's court appearence is due soon, who's won't get what he really deserves due to this country's justice system, (well i would be surprised if he did) so to tar all bikers with the same brush is wrong,
Sounds like a Victor Meldrew with a chip on his shoulder :roll:
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Restoring a bit of a sanity check here. I think the point of the debate is being lost somewhat.
I think what has prompted this thought by our delightful politicians isn't that they have no sence of thought, but that everytime a law is introduced, people decide it's morally okay to break it (not saying that's right or wrong). Our speed limit is 70mph, yet you'll hear endless lines of people justifying why they can exceed that, or extolling how much they exceeded it by. Or that it's only dangerous because of somebody else, or I'm a better driver than you therefore.... etc etc etc.
However, the simple fact is that the more laws are broken, ignored or bypassed, more laws and penalties will be introduced - and everyone suffers as a result. In many repsects and for many laws, we are well and truly hoisted by our own pertards. In this specific case, the suggested law is to control the speed of motorbikes that can exceed the speed limit. If bikes / cars didn't exceed the limit, it wouldn't be considered a problem. :wink:
Again, before anyone leaps at my jugular, I'm passing no moral judgement here.
My only issue is that it doesn't make riding or driving any safer, just slower. Limits in residential areas and inappropriate places, or even the drivers/riders capabilities can still be well and truly exceeded at less than the legal maximum. I've seen as many vehicles wiped out by the inadequacies of the operator, as I have because of the inadequacies of other people. :roll:
Makes you wonder. :-k
Cheers
8)
Eeyore*
*Poking Hornets Nests with a stick since 1971 :wink:
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I for one would like to see speed camras out side every school in the country as they would'nt be a money maker but a safty device.
As for speed limits for bikes where will it end speed limits for walking on the pavment as you might run in to each other.
Your right eeyore as the powers at be really don't know what there on about regarding speed limits but they have to come up with something to debate about because there payed to by us and will all know how our govenment like to waste our taxs on a reports .
Have they ever thought that there might be more road deaths each year because there are more drivers/riders on the road anually
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Eeyore,
i agree to an extent but i firmly believe that the pratts in the commons are simply trying to make a name by proposing radical this and that.
They dont really believe it will help or even make a difference they just want to get noticed. I went to work today on the bike and it was lovely. Didnt speed excessively and only when passing on the motorway to show courtesy to the fast cars....
Oh yes i filtered...shall i hand myself in?? No because i was courteous again and when the thoughtful drivers who are used to bikes filtering move over i always say thanks. I rarely get a thanks when in the car and letting someone out or change lanes ...thats because most car drivers are smoking on the phone and asleep, toss pots! The reality is that bikers are better driver as a rule and are far more alert than anyone sat in a tin box on the way to work!
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I agree with richo...speed camera's outside every school in the country.
Most of the villages around here are limited to 20mph.
I am a biker & 4x4 man & have to admit my driver awareness improved after passing my bike test & riding on the roads.
What's going to happen if bikes are speed limited :?: either the limiter will get removed, remapped or people will get imported bikes killing the UK bike market [-X ](*,)
It's been said but for those who don't listen....people kill people...NOT Speed ](*,)