Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Bush Tucker Man on July 12, 2007, 21:04:45
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I've been browsing of the many Police Officers 'blogs' and embedded in one of them is this little clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfeWhpPjhE
Full marks to the Officers for getting the bloke, but quite what was said about the wrong-way-chase I don't know :?
(or the paperwork regarding the damaged cars?)
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Driving against the traffic? Big No No. Too much risk to the Public. A bit of 'red mist' coming in there. I know that a colleague has been attacked, but get air support to tag the suspect then get ground units in to do the final arrest.
I have to say though the suspect seemed very red in the face, even through the blurring. He must have fallen over several times :twisted:
Well done guys and gals. A good 'collar'.
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Driving against the traffic? Big No No
That was what I thought
I have to say though the suspect seemed very red in the face, even through the blurring. He must have fallen over several times :twisted:
Well done guys and gals. A good 'collar'.
Nice to see how they 'helped' back him over the fence, via that tree :lol:
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Driving against the traffic? Big No No
That was what I thought
I have to say though the suspect seemed very red in the face, even through the blurring. He must have fallen over several times :twisted:
Well done guys and gals. A good 'collar'.
Nice to see how they 'helped' back him over the fence, via that tree :lol:
No BTM, I think you'll find that he was probably trying to escape again by climbing the tree, but fell out, if you catch my drift :wink:
The 'rules of engagement' in relation to pursuits, sorry, follows (correct PC term) is quite extensive, but Public, Officer and 'subject' (PC term for thieving, homocidal, violent scumbag) safety is paramount.
I am trained in all pursuit tactics, and have been involved in a few. They scare the living poop out of me, and it is one of things that you train for, hoping that you never have to use it.
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Training (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EVEnGnNxTtQ)
The Officer who is first in line for training (PC Fletcher) was always entertaning to watch in the series, as his sense of humour & dry comments were superb & to the point
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Agreed, that got a bit out of hand, expecially when the traffic car crashed into another! :lol:
However in the heat of the moment when all hell breaks out... it gets fun! real Fun! :twisted:
We had a traffice arrested for causing Death by dangerous driving, because the stolen car he was chasing with 2 run up junkies crashed and one got nailed! He was on suspension for 18 months :shock: and became totally stressed.
Oh yes... I would love to drive the first car thats being chased!
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That's bad about your collegue, sadly it's the state of affairs.
I'd guess that even in the good old litigious US of A, th Officer would not be treated in that way??
Dare I be a 'Devils Advocate' & suggest that the incident removed an undesirable element from the Human Gene Pool (Darwinism)
Found this on one of the 'Policemans Blogs'
If you ever testify in court, you might wish you could have been as sharp as this policeman. He was being cross examined by a defense solicitor during a trial. The lawyer was trying to undermine the policeman's credibility....
Q: "Officer, did you see my client fleeing the scene?"
A: "No sir. But I subsequently observed a person matching the description of the offender, running several blocks away."
Q: "Officer, who provided this description?"
A: "The officer who responded to the scene."
Q: "A fellow officer provided the description of this so-called offender. Do you trust your fellow officers?"
A: "Yes, sir. With my life."
Q: "With your life? Let me ask you this then officer. Do you have a room where you change your clothes in preparation for your daily duties?"
A: "Yes sir, we do!"
Q: "And do you have a locker in the room?"
A: "Yes sir, I do."
Q: "And do you have a lock on your locker?"
A: "Yes sir."
Q: "Now why is it, officer, if you trust your fellow officers with your life, you find it necessary to lock your locker in a room you share with these same officers?"
A: "You see, sir, we share the building with the court complex, and sometimes lawyers have been known to walk through that room."
The courtroom erupted in laughter, and a prompt recess was called
:lol: :lol:
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Good story, but I found the end a bit disappointing; I'd hoped the guy would be more badly injured.
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Good story, but I found the end a bit disappointing; I'd hoped the guy would be more badly injured.
That seems an odd thing to say, Therm. I don't wish for anybody to get injured regardless of what they have done. It only destroys the credibility of the case at court, and puts the officers jobs at risk.
I like cats, by the way. Apparently they taste like chicken. :twisted:
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No BTM, I think you'll find that he was probably trying to escape again by climbing the tree, but fell out, if you catch my drift :wink:
Sorry, my mistake, it was a bit like some of the drunks we get who inadvertantly attempt to get of their examination trolley & fall heavily to the floor, all with no assistance, & then have the temerity to complain about hurting themselves :twisted:
The 'rules of engagement' in relation to pursuits, sorry, follows (correct PC term) is quite extensive, but Public, Officer and 'subject' (PC term for thieving, homocidal, violent scumbag) safety is paramount.
My thoughts (& I'll bet they're not just mine?) Protect the public & the Officer, stuff the 'suspect' (unless he's carrying innocent passengers)
I am trained in all pursuit tactics, and have been involved in a few. They scare the living poop out of me, and it is one of things that you train for, hoping that you never have to use it.
I understand, if it all goes 'pear-shaped', who's 'head is on the chopping block' after all??
Sadly, the less the scum are pursued, the more they'll try
I don't wish for anybody to get injured regardless of what they have done. It only destroys the credibility of the case at court, and puts the officers jobs at risk.
And adds to the paperwork :wink:
I like cats, by the way. Apparently they taste like chicken. :twisted:
So does Chicken surprisingly enough :lol:
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Shame they didn't use T pack. the road was busy so it would have been perfect opportunity. :?
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Shame they didn't use T pack. the road was busy so it would have been perfect opportunity. :?
Yes, perhaps with hindsight the best option, but as 'L SP' suggests it was the 'Red Mist' especially on the part of the (was it a?) Sigma driver side-swiping the Astra.
I suppose the bottom line was that no-one ws injured though & the assailant was arrested.
Going off on a slight tangent;
I still find it a curious use of language that he (or, for example, the Glasgow airport bombers) are probably charged 'on the suspicion of'.
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Scots law is the same as old judges rules no pace!
No need to tape interview just interview then get Confessions or denials signed in pocket books.
No computer generated charge sheets to hastle about just a verbal charge which is recorded in the old Pocket book.
The basic laws of Scotland are derived from Roman law.
The press misinterpret lots of things like arrest and detention there tends not to be so many arrests more common to detain. Unless there are 2 independent eye witnesses then they just get arrested go straight to court having been charged without needing to interview.
In other words you can't arrest on suspicion in Scotland.
For serious case the suspect would be held for a decision to be made for further detention time at the next avaliable court.
There is good and bad on both sides of the border. :)
It used to always be old hands that were on traffic I think because they lost the red mist bit in their youth and no longer got adrenaline rush they just got on with it and stayed with the target.
Mind you when the vehicle had been brought to a stop they were too knackered to get over the fence and chase them on foot.
Comes down to the insurance thing young men between 17 and 25 get hammered I wonder if the polis drivers under 25 are more likely to have a prange on a shout than someone whose been in the job for 25 years.
Has anyone checked this out just a thought.
Maybe they could have an old boy behind the wheel with a smooth calm relaxed manner and a young lad to do the running sitting beside them. :idea: :lol:
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Has anyone checked this out just a thought.
Maybe they could have an old boy behind the wheel with a smooth calm relaxed manner and a young lad to do the running sitting beside them. :idea: :lol:
That's a bit like the joke about the young & old Bulls and talking about the cows down the field..............
Doubtless you know the one I mean?
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Sorry cant think of that one I imagine it's rude. :lol: :lol:
Cheers H1
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Sorry cant think of that one I imagine it's rude. :lol: :lol:
Cheers H1
Yes :roll:
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If that is the current standards in operation thaen god help us all.
Unprofessional, worrying, incompetant and my bad spelling seem to go hand in hand......I really do hope that I do not need any of the Police anywhere anytime soon..........I will look after mine in my way thankyou very much.
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If that is the current standards in operation thaen god help us all.
Unprofessional, worrying, incompetant and my bad spelling seem to go hand in hand......I really do hope that I do not need any of the Police anywhere anytime soon..........I will look after mine in my way thankyou very much.
I think that piece of footage is the exception rather than the normal standards.
As I mentioned in a previous post on this matter, certain aspects of that incident will have been looked at by the appropriate departments and taken seriously.
Having been in similar situations, I have called off a pursuit due to the danger and have known many other officers to do the same.
But, 'red mist' is something that every human suffers from. I'm not saying it is right, but I'm sure everyone who reads this has reacted in an abstract way when under pressure.
As the saying goes "There but for the grace of God, go I"
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If that is the current standards in operation thaen god help us all.
Unprofessional, worrying, incompetant and my bad spelling seem to go hand in hand......I really do hope that I do not need any of the Police anywhere anytime soon..........I will look after mine in my way thankyou very much.
Couldn't agree more (thaen god help us all incompetant)incompetent :lol:
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If that is the current standards in operation thaen god help us all.
Unprofessional, worrying, incompetant and my bad spelling seem to go hand in hand......I really do hope that I do not need any of the Police anywhere anytime soon..........I will look after mine in my way thankyou very much.
I think that is a little harsh, I think its unfair to judge all Police/PCSO's on that bit of footage. I also suspect its a few years old.
This is the sort of thing you can end up dealing with.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4lYEYDqzlk
Now thats not every day, but who's putting their own lives at risk?
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This is the sort of thing you can end up dealing with.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4lYEYDqzlk
Now thats not every day, but who's putting their own lives at risk?
That was a lucky escape for the biker, it did look at though he was trapped under it for a few seconds.
And as for the poor learner :shock:
Still they got the scrote in the end :twisted:
One question though.
As noted from the comments about the hits to the windows. I know it's an entirely different matter for me (& everyone else) sitting here & watching it to being there on the ground in that situation.
Why aren't the Officers trained to hit the windows at one point (like a 'hammer blow') rather than flailing away across the breadth of it??
Or was they 'heat of the moment strikes', it looks as though they're using the extendable batons (ASP??)
In comparison, the side-handle batons rapidly break the windows of this Supra (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVOjt0iZko&mode=related&search=)
(are they a day-to-day item of kit?)
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On a lighter note
I bet THIS (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y03K1QkuFYM) would never happen on this side of 'the Pond'
:(biglaugh): :(biglaugh):
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Trucks & tyres (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aQWyAWSApzg)
The trucker presumably didn't look before he made the (illegal) move into lane 3, as the Officer states that he was on flashing (occulating??) headlamps with no need for 'blues'.
As for his earlier incident (blow-out) that was lucky!
If he'd been alongside another vehicle..........................
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If that is the current standards in operation thaen god help us all.
Unprofessional, worrying, incompetant and my bad spelling seem to go hand in hand......I really do hope that I do not need any of the Police anywhere anytime soon..........I will look after mine in my way thankyou very much.
I think that is a little harsh, I think its unfair to judge all Police/PCSO's on that bit of footage. I also suspect its a few years old.
This is the sort of thing you can end up dealing with.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4lYEYDqzlk
Now thats not every day, but who's putting their own lives at risk?
It was interesting watching that. I have to say that it just reinforces my opinion that the 'Asp' batons that are issued to most forces are next to useless. In my previous force, we had the American style PR24 sidehandled baton for everyday use and straight, solid batons for public order duties.
The PR24 was ideal for taking car windows out. The Asp just bounces straight off. Why the Asp? It is likely to cause less lasting damage to the subject that it comes into contact with :roll: therefore the little darlings are less likely to sue.
I always thought the idea was to 'subdue the subject' as quickly as possible, not tickle them into surrendering!
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On a lighter note
I bet THIS (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y03K1QkuFYM) would never happen on this side of 'the Pond'
:(biglaugh): :(biglaugh):
I bet they would if they could
1 get away with it
2 you had a nice car not a shed
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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In my previous force, we had the American style PR24 sidehandled baton for everyday use and straight, solid batons for public order duties.
The PR24 was ideal for taking car windows out
Buy your own, for 'old times sake' (http://www.usinternetsales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=USIS&Product_Code=PN-MON1101-XTS&Category_Code=MDNK)
The Asp just bounces straight off. Why the Asp? It is likely to cause less lasting damage to the subject that it comes into contact with :roll: therefore the little darlings are less likely to sue.
I always thought the idea was to 'subdue the subject' as quickly as possible, not tickle them into surrendering!
I would have thought that 'subdue' would be idea too.
Ie; be hit once, instead of multiple times
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On a lighter note
I bet THIS (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y03K1QkuFYM) would never happen on this side of 'the Pond'
:(biglaugh): :(biglaugh):
I bet they would if they could
1 get away with it
2 you had a nice car not a shed
Got to admit, the Mustang's still a good looking car
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Don't buy one you'll get arrested!
The ASP is ok for legs and arms, you need a heavy cap on the other end, it usually works... However we keep an axe in our car and that will go through anything! :twisted: :lol:
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Don't buy one you'll get arrested!
The ASP is ok for legs and arms, you need a heavy cap on the other end, it usually works... However we keep an axe in our car and that will go through anything! :twisted: :lol:
I hope you've done the appropriate Health and Safety, 3 week long, 'how to handle and axe safely while putting it through a window, and that way we cover our arse' course? :roll:
I have to say, again from experience, most car thieves tend to back down when faced with a large Police Landrover Defender with a solid steel bumper coming at them head on. That technique is not in any 'manual of guidance' that I know of, but it sue as hell worked! :twisted:
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Don't buy one you'll get arrested!
No, I (jokingly) meant for L S-P as a reminder of his old Force.
The ASP is ok for legs and arms, you need a heavy cap on the other end, it usually works...
However we keep an axe in our car and that will go through anything! :twisted: :lol:
Including arms & legs, instead of the ASP??
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Including arms & legs, instead of the ASP??
You could try that but its real messy! :lol:
The day I leave the Job, I'll bang some of my home made vids (Camera phone) on you tube. There are some great blue light runs as well as a dog incident. All filmed by the passenger not the driver of course!
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As an aside, I find it quite interesting reading some of the comments made by viewers of these various links.
I get the distinct impression that some are not great fans of the Police. One thing I've noticed over the years is that those who claim to 'Hate Da Ol Bil', to use the current vernacular (or rather lack of it) are usually those who shout for 'Da Pigs', when 'Dey az been beaten up by loads of uvva geezers, like and I is wantin' to press charges, like'.
What a bunch of useless, space wasting, oxygen thieveing scumbags.
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Is pr 24 not to do with round the clock public relations :?
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What bugs me is when the get into a row with each other, kick seven bells of the brown stuff out of each other, then call for "da pigs" when we arrive the make up and turn on us... :roll:
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The day I leave the Job, I'll bang some of my home made vids (Camera phone) on you tube. There are some great blue light runs as well as a dog incident.!
Was the Dog 'playing' with someone who wouldn't lie down as it expected him to???
What bugs me is when the get into a row with each other, kick seven bells of the brown stuff out of each other, then call for "da pigs" when we arrive the make up and turn on us...
Then the scum-bags get brought to places like ours :roll:
The A&E dilemma is;
1. Do we treat them quickly so your collegues (in our area) can lock them up for the night??, & get them away from our real patients!
2. Do we make them wait (in pain, of course) until they're sober enough to be nice to the staff treating them???
(whilst keeping the Officers supplied with Tea & Biscuits)
A. Obviously if they're in real pain due to an injury they'll be seen & subsequently discharged back into 'custody'
One of my abiding memories is of being told by a (now retired) Nurse about an abusive, drunken, totally obnoxious individual who was swearing at her (& the Doctor), plus spitting blood at them :twisted:
Now in my eyes, he'd have simply got dragged outside by the Bobby until he'd sobered up enough to behave (be he dragged by the hair or feet, it'd be no difference to me)
Said Officer apologised to Nurse & tried to make drunk behave.
Said Nurse asked drunk to stop & not to do it again...
Said drunk did...... & caught Nurse with blood streaked saliva
Nurse slapped drunk across face so hard, his head bounced off the trolley rails :lol:
Drunk tried to complain to Officer about a supposed assault
Officer said he was looking the other way & saw nothing
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The Police should be armed, I have spent a fair amount of time with the POlice in the USA and the way they do things is the way forward, however they can keep their racism, it was embarrassing at times.
We need to arm all of our police, it would stop all the petty crap that goes on...The serious stuff usually entails arms of some sort anyway, seems to be a win win situation for the public.
And those who say the villains will arm themselves etc....I feel you may find you are a tad late with that argument, look at the statistics with the frquency of armed police action in the last ten years..
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The Police should be armed, I have spent a fair amount of time with the POlice in the USA and the way they do things is the way forward, however they can keep their racism, it was embarrassing at times.
We need to arm all of our police, it would stop all the petty crap that goes on...The serious stuff usually entails arms of some sort anyway, seems to be a win win situation for the public.
And those who say the villains will arm themselves etc....I feel you may find you are a tad late with that argument, look at the statistics with the frquency of armed police action in the last ten years..
a very emotive subject and one that I'm sure has been covered before.
I have never carried a gun on duty, and would never want to. Saying that, I have been faced with firearms and if I had of been armed, then I would have been more than justified in the use of it.
It is the act of taking a life and the aftermath of that action. I will make the assumption that every police officer who has pulled a trigger can justify their actions in their own minds. However the Police hierarchy and Judicial system to do not see it like that.
That is the bit that bothers me most.
More use should be made of other 'less lethal' options (another PC phrase. Don't you just love it? :roll: ) like Taser, Baton rounds, and chemical incapacitants Pepperball.
Unfortunately, the hierarchy in the UK Police seem too scared to use this sort of method as "Its just not the British way of doing things".
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The Police should be armed, I have spent a fair amount of time with the POlice in the USA and the way they do things is the way forward, however they can keep their racism, it was embarrassing at times.
We need to arm all of our police, it would stop all the petty crap that goes on...The serious stuff usually entails arms of some sort anyway, seems to be a win win situation for the public.
And those who say the villains will arm themselves etc....I feel you may find you are a tad late with that argument, look at the statistics with the frquency of armed police action in the last ten years..
a very emotive subject and one that I'm sure has been covered before.
I have never carried a gun on duty, and would never want to. Saying that, I have been faced with firearms and if I had of been armed, then I would have been more than justified in the use of it.
It is the act of taking a life and the aftermath of that action. I will make the assumption that every police officer who has pulled a trigger can justify their actions in their own minds. However the Police hierarchy and Judicial system to do not see it like that.
That is the bit that bothers me most.
More use should be made of other 'less lethal' options (another PC phrase. Don't you just love it? :roll: ) like Taser, Baton rounds, and chemical incapacitants Pepperball.
Unfortunately, the hierarchy in the UK Police seem too scared to use this sort of method as "Its just not the British way of doing things".
Couldn't agree more! If they said... ok chaps, its a choice a 9mm pistol or a Taser... I would take the taser any day.
As soon as you pull the trigger of a gun the Police officer is being investigated and is suspended!
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I spent 5 years of my life with a side weapon at all times, and I perfectly understand the point of view of officers in the UK.
Exactly what crap is carrying weapons going to erradicate?? Oh yeah, I know, let's threaten the 15 year old thugs vandalizing the corner shop. Anybody see the flaw in the theory??
As far as I know, proportionality comes into the equation somewhere when it comes to the PC explaining the judge why he did what he did. Ergo, a firearm would be next to useless to your average bobby. All it would be is another opportunity for an accident, and that would only satisfy the red-tape brigade (another 275 yards of useless paperwork, explaining why PC Smith allowed 5 thugs to beat him to pulp and steal his/her weapon, which will no doubt be used to mug old ladies. How careless and unproffesional of PC Smith. BTW, has he/she regained consciousness yet, so we can discipline him/her???).
In all honesty, leave weapons to those with both the training and the vocation to carry them. Weapons do not prevent crime, and they can create a lot of headaches.