Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: discograham on September 03, 2007, 09:10:20
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I give up. I can't fathom this one out, so I'm desperate for opinions and advice...
Started overheating a few weeks ago, which seemed to be due to water loss due to a split hose. Fixed the hose, still overheating, still loosing water.
Eventually changed the water pump for a new one. The belt tensioner was also siezed, but thats now been freed and oiled and is working fine... ( Frankie boy... that was the cause of the belt problem )...
So now I drive for a couple of miles then she starts to overheat... gets hot, then hotter... but when I go around a roundabout the temp gauge drops immediately back to normal...but only for a few moments, then it creeps up again...and past the red...
Yet the gauge shows it to cool down in a few minutes once the engine is off...
And it's still loosing water somewhere... but I can't see where...
Head gasket blew a couple of months ago, and there are no signs that it's blown again...
Now, I took out the thermostat to see if that was the problem before I changed the water pump... and haven't put it back in yet.. so one of my questions is this... could the increased water flow actually be affecting the cooling process adversly..ie, flowing so fast as to not allow time to cool adequately ? And could this in turn lead to water boiling off rather than leaking away ? God knows I can't fathom it out... any ideas ?
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I'd put money on the head gasket & possibly a new head needed.
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Have you checked the P gasket :?:
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what about testing the thermostat in boiling water first. get a thermometer, and put that in the boiling water and make sure it opens at the right temp (i think its about 86 degrees c)
Rob
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what about testing the thermostat in boiling water first. get a thermometer, and put that in the boiling water and make sure it opens at the right temp (i think its about 86 degrees c)
Rob
Cheers Rob.. done that already, have new one ready to go in anyway, but still running without one...
LATEST... just blown a hose... the one coming from the header tank... went with a whoosh two mins after I had parked...temp was fine as well...
looking more like pressure due to head gasket all the time...
" Have you checked the P gasket " P gasket is fine , and I have a spare....
Please don't let it be the head gasket again....... :evil:
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when the head gasket went did you have the head pressure tested and skimmed ?
300tdis suffer from cracked heads which in turn couldlead to water loss
cracked blocks can lead to water loss aswel between no 2 and 3 cyl but wouldnt cause overheating
are you sure it is overheating not a dodgey sender or wire leading to it ?
strange that if the engine is nocked off then kicked back in to mins later its back to norm op......that just isnt right
also you say you go around a right hand bend and it drops.... going around a corner isnt going to make any difference to engine op tem some how :?
try some other means of keeping tabs on engine temp
ive got a digital temp gun to keep tabs on anythings temp and for when i dont believe my temp guage :lol:
just seems strange to me :?
but coolant loss, it could be head gasket again, or a cracked head :shock:
dan
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the water has to go somewhere, so iff its loss ? is there any excess pressure in the header tank ?. the p gasket as mentioned ?. internal heater matrix (wet carpets)?. iff you had a head prob did the head get checked for distortion, may even have a crack ?. cant think of anything else. dont think its anythng to do with lack of t/stat but it does sound like air in the system. alan......
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when the head gasket went did you have the head pressure tested and skimmed ?
300tdis suffer from cracked heads which in turn couldlead to water loss
cracked blocks can lead to water loss aswel between no 2 and 3 cyl but wouldnt cause overheating
are you sure it is overheating not a dodgey sender or wire leading to it ?
strange that if the engine is nocked off then kicked back in to mins later its back to norm op......that just isnt right
also you say you go around a right hand bend and it drops.... going around a corner isnt going to make any difference to engine op tem some how :?
try some other means of keeping tabs on engine temp
ive got a digital temp gun to keep tabs on anythings temp and for when i dont believe my temp guage :lol:
just seems strange to me :?
but coolant loss, it could be head gasket again, or a cracked head :shock:
dan
Dan.. yep, pressure tested and skimmed... But the quick return to normal temp ? ,I don't get it...or the bit about going around corners.... perplexing to say the least... now to check out this freshly blown hose...
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the water has to go somewhere, so iff its loss ? is there any excess pressure in the header tank ?. the p gasket as mentioned ?. internal heater matrix (wet carpets)?. iff you had a head prob did the head get checked for distortion, may even have a crack ?. cant think of anything else. dont think its anythng to do with lack of t/stat but it does sound like air in the system. alan......
Gone over and over in my head all the things it could be...not the matrix, that went once before, and when the head went last time there was so much steam in the car I thought I was in a mobile sauna... no water from there, but I will run a by-pass of the heater anyway ....
Have run a hose pipe through the header and rad and therm caps a couple of days ago... also took out and flushed radiator... all seems ok in those departments....
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i know this is a daft question but when you fill it are you filling it through the plug in the top of the t/stat housing as well ?. alan.....
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i know this is a daft question but when you fill it are you filling it through the plug in the top of the t/stat housing as well ?. alan.....
Yep, filling from all three points to avoid air lock...
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The was a guy in the disco owners club who had an overheating problem. Turned out to be a rogue bit of 'stuff' floating around by the water pump. He took it out, flushed the cooling system straight through, new water pump, put it back together and its been fine ever since.
I asked about the P gasket as mine kept overheating. It turned out to be a dodgy water pump as the pulley was well wobbly and also the P gasket was non existant. Both replaced and now no more over heating. I've been to Brecon twice and Hereford and it was been fine so she's good for short and long journeys :wink:
It does sound like too much pressure. Have you started from cold with the coolent expansion tank cap off, let it warm up and then revved the engine. If the head is cracked between the water jacket and cylinder then you should see bubbles, like you see on the WW2 films with a submarine underwater :lol: :lol:
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The was a guy in the disco owners club who had an overheating problem. Turned out to be a rogue bit of 'stuff' floating around by the water pump. He took it out, flushed the cooling system straight through, new water pump, put it back together and its been fine ever since.
I asked about the P gasket as mine kept overheating. It turned out to be a dodgy water pump as the pulley was well wobbly and also the P gasket was non existant. Both replaced and now no more over heating. I've been to Brecon twice and Hereford and it was been fine so she's good for short and long journeys :wink:
It does sound like too much pressure. Have you started from cold with the coolent expansion tank cap off, let it warm up and then revved the engine. If the head is cracked between the water jacket and cylinder then you should see bubbles, like you see on the WW2 films with a submarine underwater :lol: :lol:
Had it running yesterday with cap off... some water comes out, as it should do, then it levels off and movement is there so water pump is doing it's job... but no bubbles or excessive pressure from header...
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just thinking that but i'd take the multi belt off so the pump aint working and brim the header tank .then any bubbles will most definatly be air , cant run for long like this though. failing that ,long winded this. make some sort of plug to fit in where the glow plugs fit one at a time set that cylinder to tdc lonck the engine in gear brake on or something then pressure the cylinder with air again with the expantion tank brimmed, you would have to reduce airline pressure though . do each cylinder see iff you get any bubble that way . you woud even know which cyl has the leak iff any ?. alan.....
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Had it running yesterday with cap off... some water comes out, as it should do, then it levels off and movement is there so water pump is doing it's job... but no bubbles or excessive pressure from header...[/quote]
you say no pressure but it blew a pipe off, is your expantion bottle cap o.k ment to release pressure at a certain point ?. cheap to try . alan......
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just thinking that but i'd take the multi belt off so the pump aint working and brim the header tank .then any bubbles will most definatly be air , cant run for long like this though. failing that ,long winded this. make some sort of plug to fit in where the glow plugs fit one at a time set that cylinder to tdc lonck the engine in gear brake on or something then pressure the cylinder with air again with the expantion tank brimmed, you would have to reduce airline pressure though . do each cylinder see iff you get any bubble that way . you woud even know which cyl has the leak iff any ?. alan.....
Will remove belt in a moment.. ( bacon roll first... :wink: .. I need the energy ! ) and try that... as for the pressure test... I understand totally your suggestion... just got to make up something to block up the glow plug ports... or persuede someone to bring a pressure tester around.... :shock:
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Had it running yesterday with cap off... some water comes out, as it should do, then it levels off and movement is there so water pump is doing it's job... but no bubbles or excessive pressure from header...
you say no pressure but it blew a pipe off, is your expantion bottle cap o.k ment to release pressure at a certain point ?. cheap to try . alan......[/quote]
Good point... bacon roll can wait... checking cap....
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while im thinking of you with that bacon roll , i think you can iff your carefull pull them caps apart. theres a little spring and ball arangement iff i remember. keep an eye on how it comes apart, enjoy the roll :wink: .alan.....
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Here's another question...
The hose from the bottom of the header tank runs into a non return valve... at least that's what I assume it to be... that is what "blew" earlier this morning... the "valve" is completely in two... could the problem have been that valve all along ? Or maybe that was the next weakest point to give....
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not a clue with that one just had a look at mine see what you mean. try one .they dont look to sustantial but to blow one of them your back to excess pressure, which your cap would have released. even iff the head gasket had gone id have thought the cap would blow before that. easy and chepest way is going to be to get a new cap an valve . just keep an eye on the pressure then. alan......
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not a clue with that one just had a look at mine see what you mean. try one .they dont look to sustantial but to blow one of them your back to excess pressure, which your cap would have released. even iff the head gasket had gone id have thought the cap would blow before that. easy and chepest way is going to be to get a new cap an valve . just keep an eye on the pressure then. alan......
Short term repair on valve case with superglue... thermostat replaced... matrix bypassed... now to see what happens... :shock:
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10 mile test drive. Temp stayed at normal the entire time... feeling confident I pushed her a bit...still the gauge stayed at normal...
Now the odd bit... just as I got back I heard a strange whistling from under the bonnet... and when I opened her up... the rad top hose had split wide open and was steaming away merrily to itself....
But the temp was still on normal... and a little water was left... :shock: :evil:
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tis a strange one , must be a lot of pressure to keep blowing these hoses ?. alan......
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tis a strange one , must be a lot of pressure to keep blowing these hoses ?. alan......
Right... brand new hoses fitted top and bottom... off for another test drive.....
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22 miles and the temp stayed exactly where it should be...
300 yards from home the engine siezed.
Only then, after ide turned the ignition off then on again did the temp shoot up to max.
TOO late. Lots of smoke, one blown engine.
But thanks for the coments and advice... now to open a bottle of red wine and forget about it until morning.
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The hoses splitting might be the head gasket again?
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She's pretty well dead... Yep... I think it was the head all along now.... :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Just waiting for the post mortem now :( Any comeback on whomever did the change?
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Just waiting for the post mortem now :( Any comeback on whomever did the change?
Yes... and the moral of the story is NEVER trust anyone you don't really know...
Head was supposed to have been skimmed... now it seems that all the person did was to wet 'n dry sand it.... by hand....
No comeback on it... My fault, as he said he'd skim it for £50... someone I know through a friend... turns out he's a right little [PooPoo].... not just me who is after him now...
Just as well I didn't pound it at billing I guess, and maybe pulling the snack wagon didn't help either...
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:(
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cant beleive that , hope you get hold of him good, thing about the temp guage is sometimes iff theres no water it cant read anything, such a shame. dont you think its salvagable. make him contribute . iff it hadnt have been skimmed and you had known it would have been much more easy to diagnose and then not braking your engine. alan.....
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No comeback on it... My fault, as he said he'd skim it for £50...
Since when did liability stop just because the job was done on the cheap? If nothing else he is possibly guilty of fraud as he said he'd skim it but he didn't. Maybe he'd like a chat to your local constabulary about that?
Otherwise, sympathies for your dead motor :cry:
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She still starts and runs... but lumpy as hell... bottom end sounds ok, but that dosen't really mean anything... another full strip I guess... God alone knows what damage is there, as she siezed up solid on the dual carriage way and had to be towed home...
I am pretty sure that the head was cracked when it went back on after the last strip...it's the most likely cause of the problems...
As for the guy that did the "skim" and pressure test for me....
Friend of a friend and all that, and was paid cash, no proof etc, oh... and he's skipped town due to other issues ( yep... he is a toerag... ).... :evil:
But I have a long memory.... :twisted: