Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: strapping young lad on October 09, 2007, 14:48:59
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first off im just playing devils advocate here and dont know the whole story so im going on what i know
how come strikes still occur? i dont think holding the country to ransom is clever.
if i said to my boss, im on strike unless you pay me more.. i can see how far that gets me... out the door!
strikes in the thatcher era were commonplace but i feel strikes belong in that bygone era, if you want more money, ask for it dont stand outside refusing to work!
also do they get paid even though they are on strike or not?
i can feel some hostility coming so before you kick off, dont have a go, simply explain the process of going on strike and why get to that point.
d
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Anybody going on strike needs to work how long it will take to gain the rise there fighting for
Me I am dead against unions next to usless IMO
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all i can think about is giving the government more reason to privatise stuff like this
like in the 80's when we had the coal miners strike
people were starving and penniless, how is this good?
if you want more money and the job you are on isnt paying enough, then find another job..
i thought this was obvious
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Even if its sorted, it only time that a lot of posties will be made redundent
Theres a few people now getting annoyed with no post (wait until everyone gets a late payment charge on there Credit Card!!)
Deregulate it now!!!
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Hang on ... should I stop posting letters, or will there just be a HUGE backlog ;-)
Sorry but aren't the Post Office privatised - and as such it's like me going on strike. It affects ME, MY company and no-one else. Everyone else sees a lack of service and uses a *different* method to deliver their package.
Gone are the days that they were the *only* option. Sad but true, if you have a competitor and you strike, you lose.
The only other option is that we pay MORE for the delivery of mail. Ever had to COLLECT your own mail, they charge you £1 admin and will NOT let you see it until you pay, and then find out it's junk :( Add to that the fact that it was not even delivered!!!
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I cannot for the life of me see a Royal mail as we have it now operating in 5 years time
Post is a waste of paper (carbon footprint) it should be online....
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I cannot for the life of me see a Royal mail as we have it now operating in 5 years time
Post is a waste of paper (carbon footprint) it should be online....
Hmmm...... not sure how we send a Mini indicator unit by e-mail :? :) There's more to mail than letters.
I have never understood the concept of striking. If I ever wanted better pay, I worked harder, produced more impressive results and then asked for a salary to match. Or I applied for a higher paying position.
The job market is self regulating in this respect. If a company isn't paying enough, it looses employees to other companies. They then have to adjust their salaries to retain staff.
If people working for the Post Office don't like what they are being paid, why don't they look for alternative employment?
Maybe I'm being naive or missing the point. If I am, I would dearly like to be corrected. As a mail order company, things like this influence our decision as to who we send items with. We pay the Post Office for a daily collection. I am really tempted to write to them (not sure when it'll get there though!) and question their breach of contract.
On the other hand, we are one of the few countries that actually have mail delivered to the door. Also, 1st class post arriving mostly next day is just about unheard of anywhere else in the world. To be fair, the Royal Mail have been operating one of the best postal services in the world since they started.
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Its all about there pensions, nice have someone pay for your pension
I am trying to close my business down try doing that when your unable to pay the Taxman via cheque
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I have herd they are going to stop the strike for a day or two then go back on strike.
Whats that about. They started the strike why start it if you go back knowing there going to strike again shortly after.
What will be "missing in the post" after all this?
Not good.
Rich
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What will be "missing in the post" after all this?
Not good.
Rich
Yeah, that worries me. We are getting occasional collections, but they tell us that it is unlikely to get any further than the sorting office :roll: I can see a lot of FOC stuff having to be sent out when half of it goes missing.
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it affects everyone... eg red letters sent out about non-payment or something
passport deliveries
credit/debit card dispatches
car tax (if you do it online)
the list goes on
utter poo, it may be self regulating but its not doing a good job of it, rather reactive imo.
im waiting for post that are quite urgent but alas i have to wait until the staff decide to stop throwing their dummies out of their prams!
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It's not like the other "vital" services that went on strike didn't have back-ups.
I don't recall a backlog of fires ..... :shock:
P.S. I hear that the blood donor service is relying on *postal* reminders .... and we only have something like 6 days supply left?
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I really find it hard to understand how anyone striking can genuinely think it will make any difference to them. The way I see it, it can only make things worse.
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There will be *more* work when they get back, which no doubt will be charged as overtime :roll:
No sympathy.
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Thrasher, Post Office is privatised, but is not actually Royal Mail. The main problem is the unions in this case. Royal Mail have offered to raise the wages and its been refused because its not done how the union wants it.
Now the other problem is they are striking about is job cuts. How is costing a company £20m a day going to make it easier for the company to not have to lay off 40,000 staff when they go broke.
The union are the cause of the problem here, no-one else. If they had kept their beaks out then the job cuts would be minimised and pay raised by an ammount over the next 2 years.
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Here's a thought....
Can anyone think of any industry that has actually got better as a direct result of strike action? The only ones I can think of no longer exist.
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The union are the cause of the problem here, no-one else. If they had kept their beaks out then the job cuts would be minimised and pay raised by an ammount over the next 2 years.
But it's the individuals who are refusing to work. They do have minds of their own and don't need to do as the unions tell them.
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Yeah, but the unions make it sound alot better than it is.
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I have very bad memories of the coal strike. My dad was physically attacked, called all sorts of names etc. whenever he went to work.
It was all wrong. He was not a miner, but he worked for the NCB (or British Coal as it became) as a geologist and then in coal marketing and preparation.
That strike really did kill deep pit mining :(
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Fair point. But are the strikers really that gullible? Maybe so.
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but isnt breaking the picket line more or less condemning you to be ostracised from your colleagues?
even though you want to work you have to stand outside
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That strike really did kill deep pit mining :(
My point exactly. I cannot see anything but grief coming from this.
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Sorry the Post office arew on Strike??? Err, how do I tell as the service I normally get from them is so dire anyway.
post *might* turn up once a week, if it does, its normally a huge wad of junk mail and a few bills anything up to a week late. It got to the point I was going to screw the letterbox in the door shut to get the posman to use the box screwed to the wall that he had to walk past to get to the door. (Dog eats post)
As for sending, out of 18 items sent through ebay
8 arrived when they should have
4 were held at the PO as they messed up and hand charged me enough. They were waiting for me to go back in to get it sorted, so they were a week late! 2 went missing completely (one has subsequently arrived 2 months late) and tracking numbers didnt exist. and 4 arrived smashed to peices.
People will choose the best service available for a given price, moment someone starts taking post other than Royal Mail they are screwed.
Its the same all over BT more or less have a monopoly and have NO customer service. Same with the banks. We put up with this rubbish though so nothing will change. Oh and prices will probobly go up again next year.
This kind of behaviour is only tolaerated as Royal Mail are an ex public organisation, they are used to stamping their feet and getting their way as it always worked in the past, now things are just falling apart.
Sack all the ingrates that think they should be paid more for underperforming and keep the guys that actually can do their jobs.
And fast, because if Capita get involved its all over but the crying.
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but isnt breaking the picket line more or less condemning you to be ostracised from your colleagues?
even though you want to work you have to stand outside
We are still getting deliveries. It's only the afternoon collections that are affected. Our postman takes the view that he cannot afford to loose 4 or 5 days pay so he carries on. He also take the view that striking has never worked before and how do they think it'll be any different this time? I don't know what his colleagues think of it though. Maybe I'll ask him tomorrow.
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I had post today.... I also had a postie working for City link on friday to collect a few boxes,
Its a joke
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So 4 days strike cost £200 approx to each postman !
With Christmas coming will they be so eager to strike ?
Not only that but what about single parents who get CSA payments.
If wages drop below a certain amount those parents wont be paid.
I`m waiting for a parcel God knows when I will get it.
I paid for recorded, £20 yet it could be weeks before it arrives.
Royal Mail :evil:
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So 4 days strike cost £200 approx to each postman !
With Christmas coming will they be so eager to strike ?
Not only that but what about single parents who get CSA payments.
If wages drop below a certain amount those parents wont be paid.
I`m waiting for a parcel God knows when I will get it.
I paid for recorded, £20 yet it could be weeks before it arrives.
Royal Mail :evil:
Most likley been dropped on its head :lol: :wink:
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:cry: It`s a christmas present for my son
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I'm waiting for several cheques :evil:
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I'm waiting for several cheques :evil:
I wish I was :lol:
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makes you wonder whether its worth getting a courier instead
yes it may cost you a tenner or more but if its value is a lot more than that at least you know its going to get where its supposed to during these awkward times
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I'm waiting for several cheques :evil:
Me too - and we have had no post since last wednesday :evil:
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All the stuff for my job interview on friday has been done via email due to the postal strikes so its not been to much of a problem.
me personal other than waiting to various bills to arrive the only thing i could possibly be waiting on is letter from the solicitors about my insurance claim.. but then they may not have bothered to send anything to me.
i can see the problems for mum and dad tho waiting to know just how much this weeks beer delivery has cost.. (normally anything around the 3K mark)
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whats interesting about this thread is that no one is defending the strike
normally when a question is asked about any industry someone normally stands their ground but not this time
maybe everyones had it with them?
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They may as well all go home & sign on the dole...useless.
With computers fast taking over snail mail, especially in business you'd have thought the posties would be working harder to improve service & maintain there jobs, not striking & alienating the people that pay there wages!
The post here in South Devon has been terrible for over 12 months now. Post used to turn up 7-7.30am everyday. Now turns up between 10am & 4pm if at all!! We even went through a period of collecting our own post from the sorting office :shock:
This has prompted me to turn my business into an internet biased business.
All my business is now done on the computer & fax now as I can't take the chance of invoices, cheques getting lost in post!
All incoming faxes go straight to fax server & all payments are done online.
The very few important docs I do have to send go by doc post with TNT or a another courier...at least it gets where it's going...eventually!
Perhaps we should all strike & not the Royal Mail service for a month & see how that hurts their pockets...see what the union idiots have to say about that :evil:
Rant over...nearly!! :twisted:
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post in our new house is usually there by 9am but in the old house you could be having afternoon tea before it turns up
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Some have called unofficial strikes today :roll:
Taken from the BBC.
He explained that the wildcat strikes were triggered by new Royal Mail rules, which they had not consented to, that prevented workers from starting work before 0600 BST and leaving before 1415 BST.
Flexibility
Historically, most postal workers begun their shift between 0500 BST and 0530 BST and were free to go when they had finished their round.
Mr Wall argued this loss of flexibility, and not pay, was the reason why he was on strike and said that he believed that was the case for most of his Royal Mail colleagues.
"The current Royal Mail management introduced this concept of flexibility when they were appointed," said Mr Wall.
It looks like they want to keep their job and finish tradition.
If they are paid 8 hours, why not expect to work 8 hours :evil:
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It looks like they want to keep their job and finish tradition.
If they are paid 8 hours, why not expect to work 8 hours :evil:
second jobs...... :roll:
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It looks like they want to keep their job and finish tradition.
If they are paid 8 hours, why not expect to work 8 hours :evil:
second jobs...... :roll:
So striking for the right to continue to carry on taking the micheal?
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The very few important docs I do have to send go by doc post with TNT or a another courier...at least it gets where it's going...eventually!
Only works for business post - anything residential and TNT etc use 'guess who' to make the delivery - yes the Post Office.
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i dont think tradition works anymore, times have changed, management methods have changed.
i hear another strike is happening
lovely....
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The very few important docs I do have to send go by doc post with TNT or a another courier...at least it gets where it's going...eventually!
Only works for business post - anything residential and TNT etc use 'guess who' to make the delivery - yes the Post Office.
Not if you address it correctly :wink: ...play the system :D
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The strike is still on in alot of areas.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7037052.stm
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The very few important docs I do have to send go by doc post with TNT or a another courier...at least it gets where it's going...eventually!
Only works for business post - anything residential and TNT etc use 'guess who' to make the delivery - yes the Post Office.
Not if you address it correctly :wink: ...play the system :D
i always get stuff thats of any value delivered to work ;)
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I've been reading nothing but anti-strike comments in this thread so thought it might be time to respond to some of the comments being made. Before I start I must declare that I do, on occasion, work for Parcel Force which is part of Royal Mail but operated as a separate business.
The workforce within Royal Mail (RM) have been implementing a series of "service improvements" ~ read cost cutting exercises ~ for the past 5 years. As customers of RM you will have seen the effects of these improvements as single daily deliveries, 2nd class letters taking up to 3 days for delivery, single daily collections from post boxes, not being able to purchase television licences from Post Offices, changes to the way letters are charged and an increase in the price of stamps. The quick-minded amongst you will see that not one of these changes has actually been an improvement ~ but it has saved millions. Each time a new improvement has been implemented the staff have raised objections on the grounds that it detracts from the service already provided and management have told them to "shut up and get on with it".
In addition to the improvements mentioned above, management have imposed changes to staff working times and practices without consultation. Imagine your own situation; you have a job which you've been doing for x years, you've built-up a routine around that job (taking the kids to school, caring for relatives, helping out with the local youth group, etc.). You go into work one morning and your manager says "oh, we've changed your hours, instead of 9 til 5 you're now working 12 til 8; starting today". Can't be done? Well it happened this week to several thousand RM employees (hence the wildcat strikes).
In common with many civil servants (which RM employees are) they work for low wages (typically less than 20k/yr when the national average is close to 25k). They know that when they sign up but there is a long-term benefit for them and that is a good pension scheme. Or at least it WAS until Gordon Brown raided it a few years ago and more recently management have announced they are going to a) raise the retirement age, b) reduce the pension payout and c) make employees contribute. The rights and wrongs of c) are irrelevant ~ it's the way in which the employees are being rail-roaded that sticks in their craw. How would you feel if 2 months from retirement you're told that the pension you were expecting is going to be reduced by 22% ~ not only have you suffered low wages for the past 30 years but now you're going to get a reduced pension too!
RM don't just collect and deliver letters. Much of their business is based around small parcels collected from businesses and delivered to private homes. One company I know ships about 1000 small packages each day via RM ~ you can't send those via email. As a business you can get a number of other postal companies to collect your mail (letters or parcels) BUT it's RM that does the delivery of these so if the posties are on strike they don't get delivered either.
No other company has the infrastructure to make house to house deliveries in each and every city, town, village, hamlet and farming community in the UK. If RM's management has it's way nor will RM in 5 years time. They want to bring in more automation but can only do that by making savings in other places and they haven't yet developed a robot that can deliver mail. They've already squeezed the business to the verge of breaking point and all that's left to cut now is wages. The union's estimate of 40,000 jobs (about 1/3 of the workforce) may be a bit high but can you imagine how much worse the service will be with even 20,000 less posties out there popping your bills, cheques and passports through the letter box each and every day?
I don't advocate or support the strike action and would never take part myself but I do understand the employees frustration. Their morale is pretty much at rock bottom. Believe it, or not, they actually want to provide a good service to the public. They see themselves as the whipping boys who are being forced to stand back whilst Adam Crosier (the highest paid civil servant in the UK) turns what was once the best postal service in the world into a third rate skeleton of its former self.
Feel free to disagree with any or all of the above, as you see fit, it's just an honest appraisal from someone who occasionally works in the business.
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I applaud you for posting your views Steve.
But the fact stands strike action in the 21st Century will not work and there are not many of any cases of it working in big National or privatized companies.
Ive worked for the bus industry for 22 years starting as a driver.
The rosta's where constantly changed every few months without agreement, by the management after deregulation in 1986, yes we got fed up, yes in the late 80's early 90's we went on strike, it got us know where and disliked by the traveling public.
We where and drivers still are on a darn site less than 20k a year with shift pattens that would frighten most people.
This is just an example, there are many other industries the same.
It was quickly found striking is not a real option, ask Miners ask the Dockers (and my father was a Docker at the big strike).
All sacked.
Wild cat strikes will cost you your job, but the long term affect of a strike on a business can be catastrophic especially one that is already struggling.
The only way to win is getting the people on your side not alienating them.
Just my views on industial action, yup Ive changed a bit over the years :lol:
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Can understand people being upset over the pension defecit, that will be more of a problem the closer you are to retirement.
But as to changes to working hours, sorry but the only answer is deal with it. I spend most of my life having my working hours change with little or no notice. Even get moved around the country or world on a minimal of 24hr notice.
But you take the money, you take the poo.
Even my misses has to be flexible at work in the NHS, usually working extended hours and weekends.
There are loads of people with families that don't have fixed working hours / locations and even less pay, they manage.
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Sorry but You arent Civil Servants, Privatised you see.
Average wage £25K errm thats crud too, on your current wage scale a Postie makes more than a lot of people in specialised sectors.
And the whining about not being pad for hours your dont work, ahem, welcome to the real world.
Yyes management is screwing it up and the pentions nonsense is wrong but the strikes are removing any support you had, hence the no positive views on the strike action.
If I strike over working conditions(without union backing), I get fired, plain and simple, this applies to almost all of the working population.
If I turn up at 5:30 am, do all my work and go home 4 hours later, I get paid 4 hours later, again, this applies to about 90% of the working poulation.
If I turn up at work, complete my shift early (assuming I work for someone that allows this) By not delivering mail, dropping it in the bin, going home to deliver it later in my car, again, I get fired.
As long as post is arriving late, is being willfully misdelivered/destroyed/lost/batched up by the posties then there will be no sympathy. Yes I see what you say about parcels but theres only one thing that most people of the Uk see day in, day out, and thats the post.
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Steve,
Good posting
I agree with the pensions issues PO is not the only company with this problem
But working the contracted hours you should ie 6-2 but comman pratice is to get overtime in the morning and to leave early... blimey if I do that i would be on the dole
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I'm not a postie but have a close freind who is. one of the main sticking points at his depot/sort office is the early finish . currently if he completes his job after 4 hours he goes and gets paid for 8, but if management asks him to stay the full 8 hour shift to help others out. he can claim the additional 4 as overtime even though he's already being paid to be there! common for a dept/section to slow down to create overtime for others which is recipricated at a later date.
No wonder the buisiness is in such a mess!
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and there striking over that :shock: .......sack them all then thay would have to get a real job
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currently if he completes his job after 4 hours he goes and gets paid for 8, but if management asks him to stay the full 8 hour shift to help others out. he can claim the additional 4 as overtime even though he's already being paid to be there! common for a dept/section to slow down to create overtime for others which is recipricated at a later date.
No wonder the buisiness is in such a mess!
This is just one of many examples of historical practices that should never have been allowed in the first place. The problem is that people get so used to it that they find it hard to accept being asked to work the hours they are being paid for.
Here are some more examples:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/09/npost309.xml
Some are just astonishing :shock:
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Sorry but You arent Civil Servants, Privatised you see.
Depends on your definition of privatised. If having just one share holder who just happens to be HM Government is being private then I concede your point ~ but then you have to agree that British Steel, British Rail, British Leyland, British Telecom, British Aerospace, British Gas and 95% of the deep coal mines were never anything but privately owned (i.e. never nationalised).
Even when The Post Office was turned into Consignia and made a PLC they were still owned by HMG and turning that into Royal Mail hasn't changed its status.
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currently if he completes his job after 4 hours he goes and gets paid for 8, but if management asks him to stay the full 8 hour shift to help others out. he can claim the additional 4 as overtime even though he's already being paid to be there! common for a dept/section to slow down to create overtime for others which is recipricated at a later date.
No wonder the buisiness is in such a mess!
This is just one of many examples of historical practices that should never have been allowed in the first place. The problem is that people get so used to it that they find it hard to accept being asked to work the hours they are being paid for.
This is not a historical practice. It was introduced less than 5 years ago by the very same management team that now want to stop it.
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Look folks, I wasn't defending the strike action ~ personally I think it's futile and will simply hasten the demise of RM as a single entity. My post was intended to give some balance to the debate; to put forward some of the concerns that RM employees have expressed to me ~ an outsider ~ when I've asked them.
In my original post I mentioned a company that sends about 1000 small packages a day with RM. I was in a meeting with their owner today (on a completely disassociated matter) and he told me they've been losing £25k per day since the strikes started and he's going to have to lay off staff just when he should be thinking about taking on temps for the Xmas rush. He's also cancelling his contract with RM and looking to use TNT/DHL/Business Post/whoever in future. Perversely, his situation will probably have a knock-on effect on my own business as he's almost bound to delay some planned automation improvements that I've spent 8 months talking him into :(
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Sorry to hear you have got caught up in the backlash of this strike Steve, last thing any business need.
I think members feel let down by the whole RM saga and its affecting them to, so its bound to be a slightly :? one sided debate.
Its good to see other opinions and views, it makes things alot more interesting.
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currently if he completes his job after 4 hours he goes and gets paid for 8, but if management asks him to stay the full 8 hour shift to help others out. he can claim the additional 4 as overtime even though he's already being paid to be there! common for a dept/section to slow down to create overtime for others which is recipricated at a later date.
No wonder the buisiness is in such a mess!
This is just one of many examples of historical practices that should never have been allowed in the first place. The problem is that people get so used to it that they find it hard to accept being asked to work the hours they are being paid for.
This is not a historical practice. It was introduced less than 5 years ago by the very same management team that now want to stop it.
Fair enough. I have read incorrect information if that's the case. But I stand by what I said in that it should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.
I'm certainly not laying the blame with any one party. That, frankly, is never the case in disputes. The management have plenty to answer for. No doubt about that. I'm just not sure stike action is the answer. In my view (and that's all it is) it just alienates the majority of the public and they could really do with the public on their side.
I don't think anyone is having a go at you. Your point is well put, perfectly valid and appreciated in the discussion.