Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Dr Evil on October 24, 2007, 22:14:07
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Why is it that the majority of people who drive on motorways in this country have a problem with driving on the left hand lane ?
Every day I find the middle & left hand lanes running at 50-60 mph and the left lane is empty !!!
What is going on ? :twisted:
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Why is it that the majority of people who drive on motorways in this country have a problem with driving on the left hand lane ?
Every day I find the middle & left hand lanes running at 50-60 mph and the left lane is empty !!!
What is going on ? :twisted:
That will be that there sat nav has not told em to get back in to the near side lane. :evil:
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IIRC it's the law not to use any other lane other than lane 1 unless over taking another slower moving vehicle.
Not that it gets policed, the amount of man hours it'd cost to enforce and just try and change 80% of the nations bad driving habits
Not a chance
The best thing, over take them and gloat in your speed advantage
:lol:
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The best thing, over take them and gloat in your speed advantage
:lol:
I do, but the whole thing is really annoying.
Not so bad in the Disco cos no one expects you to go fast, but in my Pug everyone thinks you're some kind of maniac !
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The highway code recommends/advises driver to use the left hand lane.
IIRC there was a study on this. If people moved into the middle & left hand lane promptly when safe to do so, something like 100 miles, could have been allot more, of UK motorway space would be freed up.
You can legally undertake as long as you don't change lanes to do it...i.e. you can't whizz up the middle or outside lane & deliberately move left to undertake cos someone is hogging the lane in front of you. However if you approach said lane hogger from an inside lane, overtake them then move out once past this is perfectly acceptable. :D
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i strongly believe that those who sit in the middle lane do so as they fear going into the left hand lane will block them in from overtaking so if they sit in the middle lane they will be fine... OR they DO have a fear of overtaking slower vehicles than themselves (although i often see trucks going faster than them) and rather than run the risk of having to overtake they sit in the middle lane contented and annoying the population with their selfishness
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You can legally undertake as long as you don't change lanes to do it...i.e. you can't whizz up the middle or outside lane & deliberately move left to undertake cos someone is hogging the lane in front of you. However if you approach said lane hogger from an inside lane, overtake them then move out once past this is perfectly acceptable. :D
Not so!
"Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in the left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with traffic in your lane even if it means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake." Quoted direct from the Highway Code (2007 edition) Rule 268.
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Middle lane hoggers are colloquially known as members of the Centre Lane Owners Club (CLOC) :D
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Some of the worst offenders seem to be foriegn truck drivers.
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The ones that sit in the middle lane are the same clowns that drive down the slip road at 40mph and wonder why everyone is waving at them as they join traffic that is travelling at 60 - 70 mph
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Some of the worst offenders seem to be foriegn truck drivers.
Have you ever noticed that
1 Most accidents on motorways and dual carriageways that involve HGVs are usually "sideswipes" by left hookers ?
2 "Johnny Foreigner" has absolutely no idea how to use roundabouts and invariably turns right from the left lane ?
As far as CLOC is concerned, "They don't like it up em Capt. Mainwaring ! "
The sight of my little truck trundling along behind em with lights blazing soon reminds em to get outa my way ... well usually !
Talking of lights, have you noticed how on a damp drizzly grey day the majority of grey/silver cars don't use headlights ?
They do when I pull out on em !
Oh and another thing, who agrees that rear foglights are the daftest thing to have been made compulsory on cars ? We very rarely need em but they seem to be used when visibility gets below 4 nautical miles 80 miles from the sea !
ok rant over
bed time
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Don't forget, the Highway Code is nothing more than guidance NOT law. The Road Traffic Act is the law bit. From memory it states we should keep left at all times under normal conditions, which includes A and B roads - how many people do you see sitting on the white lines?
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The tram lines in the middle lane are considerably smaller :lol:
But Yea, I do agree with you on this one, ( blimey an agreement on m/c :lol: ) Usually trundle down the inside lane and have no traffic issues at all
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The tram lines in the middle lane are considerably smaller :lol:
But Yea, I do agree with you on this one, ( blimey an agreement on m/c :lol: ) Usually trundle down the inside lane and have no traffic issues at all
Beat me to it !
I tend to drive in the middle lane if the motorway is quiet as I find the left hand lane has been damaged by large vehicles and you get into their tram lines and I find they can move you around the lane a bit
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Although failure to comply with the other rules of the code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wordings such as 'should/should not' or 'do/do not.'
Quote taken from The Highway Code - Revised 2007 Edition
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Came home on M23/25 tonite and low and behold the left hand lane was packed !
Everyone must have read the forum last night and it shamed them all !!!! :P
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I drive up the middle lane every morning 8)
The only thing is anyone that overtakes me is breaking the speed limit by a good margin and is liable to be prosecuted :lol: :lol:
I really cant be bothered to keep pulling in and out between lorries every 2 minutes.
Maybe its just me that can admit it :?:
Steve
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I drive up the middle lane every morning 8)
The only thing is anyone that overtakes me is breaking the speed limit by a good margin and is liable to be prosecuted :lol: :lol:
I really cant be bothered to keep pulling in and out between lorries every 2 minutes.
Maybe its just me that can admit it :?:
Steve
You can take the sack cloth and ashes off now :D
If driving in the left lane means having to pull out to overtake every couple of minutes I think your philosophy is sound. Overtaking is a dangerous manoeuvre especially during the morning rush hour as most drivers are still half asleep.
I think that it's the "I'm doing the speed limit and can drive in the middle lane if I want" numpties who ignore a completely empty lane 1 for miles on end that annoy most of us. The Highways Agency recently claimed that at any one moment in time middle lane hoggers were making 1700 miles of motorway lane 1 unusable thus adding to congestion and driver frustration.
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Hey, I'm gald to see I'm not the only one who is up to speed on the highway code :D
More evidence of the generally high standard of driving shown by 4x4 owners :wink:
What makes me laugh is the oh-so-considerate drivers who pull over from the middle or RH lanes to allow you to pass, then pull back again :shock:
WHY?
I think these idiots have forgotten how to drive.
Compulsory retesting, it's long overdue. We'd all pass though, right :wink:
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Compulsory retesting, it's long overdue. We'd all pass though, right
Yea yea
Thats the problem, we all think we are better than we actually are, ask any CLOC or anyone driving "sensibly" and they will all say it's the other bloke/bird at fault.
The only way to improve the roads is to ban traffic or make it almost impossible to navigate through a town.
I think Sheffield council is almost there ! The traffic is horrendous when just one road is blocked by an accident or ongoing " improvements."
I can see that in the not too distant future they won't have to worry about traffic plans cos nobody will dare to come within the city limits... unless they use public transport.
Yea yea... bring it on Then lets see just how many more empty shops appear in the city centre... and how many more empty multi story carparks ( Bristol hotel in the centre used to be a carpark ) are converted to hotels for those that get fed up of waiting for a bus.
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if public transport was what its supposed to be and large villages/towns actually had train stations on lines passing through them i wouldnt need to use a car.
ive a company pool car in work for any stuff i need to do when im there, but getting there is hassle esp the m6 from standish to haydock :(
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I'm not sure that compulsory re-testing to "L" test standard achieves very much, except increased revenue for the Treasury. I've long advocated that all newly qualified drivers should have to pass an advanced driving test with either the IAM or RoSPA within 5 years of their "L" test. Failure to do this should automatically result in their licenses being revoked or downgraded to Provisional again.
Can't get the IAM interested in pushing this line of thinking and can't understand why :?
At this point I should declare an interest in advanced driving ~ my friends and family would say I'm a bit of an evangelist when it comes to the subject :)
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Another IAM driver here. The good thing about doing the IAM test is that it teaches you the difference between "good driving" and what you believe is good driving. It's interesting to try and drive to that standard a few years after taking the test: you recognise your own bad habits creeping back.
In my experience, most middle lane hogs are too scared to change lane any more often than they have to, and shouldn't be allowed on the motorway without supervision.
Andy
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I drive up the middle lane every morning 8)
The only thing is anyone that overtakes me is breaking the speed limit by a good margin and is liable to be prosecuted :lol: :lol:
I really cant be bothered to keep pulling in and out between lorries every 2 minutes.
Maybe its just me that can admit it :?:
Steve
If driving in the left lane means having to pull out to overtake every couple of minutes I think your philosophy is sound. Overtaking is a dangerous manoeuvre especially during the morning rush hour as most drivers are still half asleep.
I think that it's the "I'm doing the speed limit and can drive in the middle lane if I want" numpties who ignore a completely empty lane 1 for miles on end that annoy most of us. The Highways Agency recently claimed that at any one moment in time middle lane hoggers were making 1700 miles of motorway lane 1 unusable thus adding to congestion and driver frustration.
Thats the point I was trying to make.
The M25 in the mornings and evenings is just 1 huge 30 mph crawl and I find that the middle lane is usually the smoothest route. Its when the traffic clears and most of the 'commuters' stay in their respective lanes regardles of traffic that gets my goat.
Sorry Mr Evilgoat Sir, no pun intended.
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I'm not sure that compulsory re-testing to "L" test standard achieves very much, except increased revenue for the Treasury. I've long advocated that all newly qualified drivers should have to pass an advanced driving test with either the IAM or RoSPA within 5 years of their "L" test. Failure to do this should automatically result in their licenses being revoked or downgraded to Provisional again.
Can't get the IAM interested in pushing this line of thinking and can't understand why :?
At this point I should declare an interest in advanced driving ~ my friends and family would say I'm a bit of an evangelist when it comes to the subject :)
The problem with that idea is that neither of these organisations are officially qualified to test anyone's driving.
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oi oi hold on.
i feel a bit of the underage drivers are all the problem theme coming on.
how unfair.
ill have you know there are a lot of 'young' drivers who are better then some adults, and young drivers are a LOT better then the old drivers who drive around in their stooooooooooopid honda's driving at 30mph everywhere.
now stop going on about young drivers causing the problems. all this L drivers talk once people [pass their tests they can be very good drivers, the tests are getting really quite difficult, and i think that if all adults took their test now i bet you at least 50% would fail on the spot.
Rob
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I have to confess that, as a professional driver, I don't hold the IAM test in such a high regard as you do.
Admitedly it is one step above the defensive driving techniques course, but it is nowhere near perfect.
Also, I am not too sure about retesting, however I would be more than happy to see a full medical test introduced, compulsory every five years, two years after the driver is 65, like, say, what is done in Spain.
It makes sure every driver meets the eyesight standard which is only perfunctorily tested nowadays. It also measures your reaction times, your hearing and general health.
My grandfather point blank refused to stop driving, even though he was a danger to everybody, including himself. You can't imagine how relieved we were when the doctor revoked his licence. That was done automatically. No appeal. If the doctor thinks you are not fit, Trafico does not argue it.
Now, over here, chap used to work with me, HGV driver, got a heart attack some 2 years ago. Doctor told him not to drive, likelihood of suffering another one was extremely high. Chap ignores doctor, doctor is legally prevented from contacting DVLA. Unofficially DVLA is contacted, only to be told that the details of the driver could not be acted upon unless the driver gave explicit consent.
Couple of months later, muppet suffers another heart attack while driving a 32 ton tipper, crashes against a minibus full of school children. No one injured, but can you picture the potential carnage???
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I echo the sentiment made when explaining that both ROSPA and the IAM aren't legally able to test anyone as an advanced driver.
As an Ambulance Paramedic, having attended an Advanced Ambulance Driving Course and at my own instigation, a ROSPA Advanced Driving Test without prior instruction (attained Gold or Grade 1 or whatever they call it these days), and previously trained as HGV (now LGV) and in off-road driving by the MoD, I was more than disappointed in a remark made by a group of IAM members after taking a look through their eye sight testing equipment.
Apparently, due to less than 20/20 vision in my left eye, I shouldn't be driving at all?!??
These people within IAM may vary in quality, but certainly in my area they appear to set themselves above everyone else on a pedestal.
Anyway, at an Autumn Fayre a few years ago, while visiting an IAM stand, they looked fairly upset when I revealed that at that time I drove fast response as a paramedic, at up to the maximum speed of the vehicle (Astra GTE 16V ~135mph). I asked them whether their experience matched my own, and whether the IAM test had any legal standing, and got stoney silence.
From that point on I've not sought any dealings with the self-appointed idiots, who obviously get a sexual thrill from telling everyone how good they are behind the wheel, and break speed limits because they perceive they are better than everyone else.
I'm a bit of an evangelist when it comes to people who claim to be 'advanced drivers', I'm sure they aren't all the same as the people I've met, who were showing video of themselves speeding along country lanes 'doing their advanced driving'. They have yet to impress me.
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Self-appointed and yet insurance companies offer discounts to encourage people to use their services.... How come ?
Political spin I reckon. You just keep telling people how good you are and eventually they believe it.
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What annoys me is as you say insurance companies offer discounts for advanced motorists, well I was insuing one car or another and was asked if I was an advanced motorist,
"yes" I replied, "I'm a fully qualified driving instructor"
not good enough apparently :shock:
They asked if I had RoSPA, AMI, DIA, anything like that
"Oh sorry yes, I have a DSA ADI"
Any old rubbish that adds a few meaningless letters to your name is acceptable, and yet the only person legally allowed to charge money for driving instruction on the highway is a driving instructor, iether PDI or ADI, even if it's to advanced level.
So I can teach it, but apparently I'm not good enough to count for it.
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"I'm a fully qualified driving instructor"
I'm still learning - it's bloomin hard :evil:
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"I'm a fully qualified driving instructor"
I'm still learning - it's bloomin hard :evil:
How far have you got?
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Theory still - I'll pass it soon !!
My mate has his own driving school in Barry and he'll give me some lessons when it comes to part 3. I don't fancy that part :shock:
Can't wait to get out of this call centre and into a real job 8) :lol:
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I looked into working in a cube farm when I first started. Luckily for my sanity the interviewer (his first ime in a suite I think) was so patronising I left the interview swearing.
Hardest thing is getting work, you'll find teaching rewarding but being self-employed is a PITA. I'm thinking of doing somehting else now.
Get your hours up and go PDI, get some experience before you try the part 3.
Are you on an all-in course or funding yourself as you go? if the latter then one word of advice, if you can't get through part 2 at the first attempt you need to ask yourself if it's really the right job for you. I've seen a few trainees who can't correct the faults in their own driving.
The hardest thing I found in the part3 was believing the examiner was really driving that badly, and that's where being able to picture a real pupil will pay dividends.
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I'm on the course with the driving school £1000 deposit and then the rest in installments. I've paid for it in full now, just gotta get my head around it :evil:
probably go with BSM to get my feet and a fan base :P and then try and go solo. :?:
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when i saw the honda comment above i laughed!
my boss drives an accord, and he is 34 :)
might remind him of honda drivers :)
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why not just use the expression
"Man who hog middle lane should expect middle finger"
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anyone see this?
http://www.middlelanemorons.com/script/middle_lane_morons_prob.php
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I thought doctors were under an obligation to inform DVLA if a patient had a suspected heart attack.I had chest pains a couple of week ago after a pretty stressfull day.I,m a coach driver.I went to the doc on the Monday who did an ECG as soon as he could.It proved inconclusive. I informed work who suspended me till I could prove I was ok to work.They let me finish a 12 hr day and left me a note in my cubby hole to tell me .I asked the doc who said they didnt think I had had a heart attack but until I pass a walking ECG the test that DVLA make heart attack people who want their license back do,I,m not clear for work I understand but it dont pay my mortgage.If I have had a heart attack confirmed with cardiac enzyme test my mortgage would be paid but until there is a definate diagnosis I,m stuffed
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us TD5 owners are only ever in the far right hand lane anyway :D
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Another IAM driver here. The good thing about doing the IAM test is that it teaches you the difference between "good driving" and what you believe is good driving. It's interesting to try and drive to that standard a few years after taking the test: you recognise your own bad habits creeping back.Andy
Hi Andy, I try to maintain my standard as I'm a senior observer so in addition to training associates I also help to train potential observers. In the Bristol group we run regular "3-in-a-car" sessions where you get the chance to have your driving dissected by 2 other members ... and then get your revenge on them too :D
Having to re-take the RoSPA test every 3 years keeps you on your toes too :shock:
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The problem with that idea is that neither of these organisations are officially qualified to test anyone's driving.
Neither of them do any testing. All advanced testing is carried out by either serving or ex-police traffic officers with Class 1 certification who have passed a specific examiners test. I appreciate they're not DSA Examiners either, but then it's not a DSA test.
The DSA has approved the IAM's training methods and all observers have to pass an approved course and test before being let lose on associates and the resulting standard is very consistent (and high). Observer requalification is annual which helps to maintain standards too.
I'm not saying my idea is the answer to the appalling driving standards I witness each and every day but it would ensure that some additional training was received after the "L" test and that would be of benefit to all of us, wouldn't it?
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oi oi hold on.
i feel a bit of the underage drivers are all the problem theme coming on.
how unfair.
ill have you know there are a lot of 'young' drivers who are better then some adults, and young drivers are a LOT better then the old drivers who drive around in their stooooooooooopid honda's driving at 30mph everywhere.
now stop going on about young drivers causing the problems. all this L drivers talk once people [pass their tests they can be very good drivers, the tests are getting really quite difficult, and i think that if all adults took their test now i bet you at least 50% would fail on the spot.
Rob
Hi Rob, I'm not bashing young drivers in particular, my views of further training apply equally to newly qualified drivers of all ages. :)
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I have to confess that, as a professional driver, I don't hold the IAM test in such a high regard as you do.
Admitedly it is one step above the defensive driving techniques course, but it is nowhere near perfect./quote]
Of course it's not perfect. I didn't say it was. For sure though it's far better than the "L" test. Unless DSA are going to devise a completely new course and test then it's the only tried and tested option currently available in the UK.
I offer it as an achievable avenue for further training for newly qualified drivers. The course teaches the system of car control (as used by all UK police forces) and the test is simply a method of finding out how much of that training has sunk in.
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"I'm a fully qualified driving instructor"
I'm still learning - it's bloomin hard :evil:
I'll echo that sentiment. Failed Part 3 the first time and then decided that as I didn't really want to be a driving instructor I wouldn't bother again.
Hope you pass :D
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Wireless, there a lot of absolute "driving snobs" in both the IAM and RoSPA. I'm sorry you fell foul of them :( Come to Bristol, mate, we'll show you a good time :shock:
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Oops, is thread hogging as anti-social as middle-lane hogging?
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Oops, is thread hogging as anti-social as middle-lane hogging?
Only if you don't move over :wink:
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nearly a whole page by one member!
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May be they should start to use the motorbike principle. A basic test to get restricted access to the roads, then a more advanced to remove restrictions once you have passed a certain age.
For driving Instructors, do they cover dual carriageways and motorways in driver training and testing?
Didn't when I did mine, but then my examiner got lost and I had to give him directions back to the test center! :lol:
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Going back to the middle lane theme...its even more frustrating if you are towing, and someone is sat in the middle lane at say 55mph...nothing in lane 1 or 3.
Do you
a) go up the inside
b) sit behind em flashing your lights etc til they move over
c) use the outside lane
given that b could be viewed as aggressive driving and c is illegal, a seems the most logical.
i was always under the impression that you can stay in the inside lane and go up the inside of someone providing you are within the speed limit and didnt move in to their inside from another lane.
you would be simply following the rules of driving on the left...
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Hi Rob, I'm not bashing young drivers in particular, my views of further training apply equally to newly qualified drivers of all ages. :)
I think it's about time most licence holders had to bring their driving up to the standard of a newly qualified driver. THAT would be a good start.
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May be they should start to use the motorbike principle. A basic test to get restricted access to the roads, then a more advanced to remove restrictions once you have passed a certain age.
For driving Instructors, do they cover dual carriageways and motorways in driver training and testing?
Didn't when I did mine, but then my examiner got lost and I had to give him directions back to the test center! :lol:
Learners ( cars and bikes) are not allowed on motorways even under instruction.
When I was teaching, I offered a free motorway hour after they had passed their test (usually persuaded them to book at least an hour extra too) Fast dual-carriageways were often used pre-test but real motorways somehow frightened newly qualified drivers and they end up avoiding them as much as possible.
As far as I know, nobody else in the area offered this free tuition, but I felt it was at least a start for new drivers to get a taste of them. I had already made a profit on the lessons, so for the sake of one hour I thought it was a good selling point for my driving school.
I do wonder how new drivers in remote areas manage though... some people don't have a local motorway and end up driving on them for the first time miles from home in a strange place on strange potentially dangerous roads. Scary !
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They say that's why you can tell drivers who are from Hull (or Norfolk for that matter) as they don't know which lane to be in on their way, well anywhere that's not Hull really :lol:
These days motorway driving is one of the six module on the pass pluss course. Problem is most pupils don't want to pay for any more tuition unless it will save them money on their car insurance. I only had a couple of pupils who's parents made them take it regardless.