Mud-club

Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 13:05:25

Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 13:05:25
hey guys, not been on for ages!

well i got myself a Disco 2 TD5 hopefully on its way soon, all standard bar some AT tyres, so over xmas hoping to go to the local place (tixover) and have a go off road,

Whats the must buys to get for my car??

Never done it before so will prob stay on the wet grass for now lol!

Cheers
Matt
Title: First time off road?
Post by: littlepow on November 15, 2007, 13:20:36
Decent spade and a good tow rope.

Start it simple, then through time you will find out what you need to change or buy. Your driving style and terrain you prefer will be the main decider towards any modifications.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 13:26:45
Yeah i got a spade !! What about a bunjee rope like on top gear? lol
Title: First time off road?
Post by: littlepow on November 15, 2007, 13:40:47
Quote from: "Matt.t."
Yeah i got a spade !! What about a bunjee rope like on top gear? lol


Kenetic energy recovery rope (KERR) not a good idea for a novice, can do a lot of damage to your vehicle.

Best to stick with a normal tow rope for now.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 13:52:28
cool i will look into a place on my way home from work,  what kinda length is best?
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on November 15, 2007, 14:42:54
There's a question.

I have a 2metre, 3 metre and 9 metre.  Probably best to start with a 9, it can be doubled-up to a 4.5 that way (the longest you can legaly use as a tow-rope IIRC).

You don't always want to be too close either.

But as for what to buy first :-k

I'd say a couple of pints at your local pub meet.  Get to know your local crowd and ask about modifications, essential kit etc.

The most important thing to have on your first trip is some mates (and I don't mean profelactics).
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 14:57:50
lol, yeh i will bring a mate or 2 with me,
Title: First time off road?
Post by: V8MoneyPit on November 15, 2007, 16:04:11
One thing nobody has mentioned yet is recovery points. Assuming you get stuck (everyone does!), you need 'proper' recovery points. Not the silly little tie down rings, but jate rings or similar directly mounted to the chassis. There are some huge forces generated extracting a 2 ton vehicle from 2 feet of gloopy mud!

Do Tixover operate a vehicle check on entry? If they do, they'll almost certainly insist on proper recovery points. This may just mean a tow bar. But worth looking into.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: littlepow on November 15, 2007, 16:22:43
Disco 2 front recovery point is a proper jobby, not a silly flimsy tie down thingy you get on defenders.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 16:24:44
just looked out my office window, footloose 4x4 specialists over the road! lol

cool i was looking at recovery points, it has a tow bar
Title: First time off road?
Post by: littlepow on November 15, 2007, 16:27:44
Tow ball can be used, but the rope can slip off under load. Better if the it is a closed system to stop the rope from being able to come loose.

Just don't go offroading on your own, can lead to embarrasing long walks home!  :lol:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 16:47:23
i just intend on going to pay and play things to start
Title: First time off road?
Post by: landroverkeith on November 15, 2007, 16:52:54
if you goto tixover make sure you wash your truck off properly and pretty sharpish too.... tixover mud makes the best grinding paste ever  :?
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Welshbreed on November 15, 2007, 17:00:17
tank of fuel
recovery rope / points
front diff guard
high lift jack (5ft'er)
rear diff guard
Rock sliders
steering guard (only to remove it later as you hook your self on stuff)
tank guard
cb radio (cos you feel your missing out here)
dislocator springs setup
relocation cones
electric winch
hydrolic winch (for when the electric dies, or for the rear)
dual battery system
tools/spares kit*
roof tent and or roof rack

*steering rods, 1x front and rear spring and absorber, various nuts and bolts, spare wire, big hammer, bigger hammer, screwdrivers, crocodile clips, spare shackels rope etc, assortment of bungee cord, gloves, spare fuel, first aid kit, survival kit, food & water, spare lights, glow sticks, flares, blow up dingy and ore's, lots of beer, BBQ materials

Then the wife tells you you have to sell it to make room for a corsa.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: kizz81 on November 15, 2007, 17:20:38
and then lots more beer :lol:  

steering guards are always good
Title: First time off road?
Post by: carbore on November 15, 2007, 17:31:16
Driver training.

Helped me no end in the race car, will do it in the Land rover once I have taken it apart and put it back together again.!
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 15, 2007, 17:32:20
can these gaurds be fabricated up easily? or is it a buy one jobby?
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Disco Matt on November 15, 2007, 17:42:12
Probably easiest to buy one - if you pick carefully you might get one with front recovery points/hilift jacking points built in.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: kizz81 on November 15, 2007, 17:42:17
depends how good you are at welding, personnaly i would go to paddock or rebel 4x4 or somewhere and buy one with jacking mounts,
http://www.rebel4x4.com
chers kieran
Title: First time off road?
Post by: ben_haynes on November 15, 2007, 19:34:11
Quote from: "landroverkeith"
if you goto tixover make sure you wash your truck off properly and pretty sharpish too.... tixover mud makes the best grinding paste ever  :?


tell me about it

my gearbox has gone pop this week went tixover a few weeks ago
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Panda on November 15, 2007, 19:46:55
Quote from: "ben_haynes"
Quote from: "landroverkeith"
if you goto tixover make sure you wash your truck off properly and pretty sharpish too.... tixover mud makes the best grinding paste ever  :?


tell me about it

my gearbox has gone pop this week went tixover a few weeks ago


And did you wash your disco after playing at tixover Ben?? :roll:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: redneck on November 15, 2007, 20:17:25
All you need for off road is a Pajero  :D

Already comes with bash plates installed as well as proper recovery points (not that you'll get stuck, they're for recovering other vehicles  :lol: )





Sorry guys, couldn't resist it  :wink:


Seriously though, the advice you've ben given already is sound. Go with another 4x4, take a good quality tow rope or strap (not one with hooks attached but one that uses proper shackles)
Also take some tools, you have got a Land Rover after all (oops sorry, there I go again  :oops:   :lol: )
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Jesska on November 15, 2007, 21:29:18
Quote
The most important thing to have on your first trip is some mates (and I don't mean profelactics).


Was going to say the same, stupid is the driver who goes out alone! Hmm profelactics, don't sound like our normal mud club meet Andrew lol
Title: First time off road?
Post by: ben_haynes on November 15, 2007, 21:48:34
Quote from: "Panda"
Quote from: "ben_haynes"
Quote from: "landroverkeith"
if you goto tixover make sure you wash your truck off properly and pretty sharpish too.... tixover mud makes the best grinding paste ever  :?


tell me about it

my gearbox has gone pop this week went tixover a few weeks ago


And did you wash your disco after playing at tixover Ben?? :roll:


No it looks better Muddy :lol:  8)
Title: First time off road?
Post by: pj's paj on November 15, 2007, 21:52:49
Quote from: "redneck"
All you need for off road is a Pajero  :D

Already comes with bash plates installed as well as proper recovery points (not that you'll get stuck, they're for recovering other vehicles  :lol: )





Sorry guys, couldn't resist it  :wink:


Seriously though, the advice you've ben given already is sound. Go with another 4x4, take a good quality tow rope or strap (not one with hooks attached but one that uses proper shackles)
Also take some tools, you have got a Land Rover after all (oops sorry, there I go again  :oops:   :lol: )


Sound advice :wink:

Don't worry about navigation in a LR, if you get lost just follow all the bits that have fell off till you get back to where you started :twisted:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Welshbreed on November 16, 2007, 02:10:10
forgot to add, a decent axe as tree's tend to fall....
Title: First time off road?
Post by: wellieboot on November 16, 2007, 08:32:07
A tow rope, some friends and a spade.

That is it.

(later edit) Yes, and recovery points, otherwise you've not got a lot to stick the tow rope one! - Knew I'd forget something - my mistake!  :oops:

No guards (just drive carefully), no lift kits (just drive carefully), no reinforcements (just drive carefully). No axe (just go back the other way if needs be.

Oh, if your out greenlaning, some stout boots and a good map. Getting out and walking ahead can save you a fortune on accesories that may be largely unecessary with care.

I have friends do everything from pay and play to Stanage Edge and more in totally standard Discos, Fronteras, Shoguns, Classic Rangies etc etc.

The gizomos may be nice to have, but by no means are they necessary.

All the money for fuel!  :lol:

Toodles
Boots
Title: First time off road?
Post by: stuntman on November 16, 2007, 08:37:59
I really have to agree about the recovery points, I went out on the ashbourne laning trip in a standard disco 1 and got VERY stuck, the first lashing point ripped off and almost put my rescuers window through, the second ONLY just got me out, needless to say no more laning until this is sorted out  :oops:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 16, 2007, 11:35:24
Right well i went shopping last night!

got a really good tow rope for 20 quid with 4 D shackles dont why 4 but thats what the guy give me,
2 spades, a little one adn a big one! the little one will stay in the car
2 10 litre jerry cans, were a fiver each. one for diesel one for water
got a new set of jump leads too
thinkin of a roof rack now, a little one at the back, gotta ask my mate to put it together though

Just need to get a pressure washer then for cleaning it all off!
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Drift on November 16, 2007, 11:55:22
Dont pressure wash your radiator though, you will kill the fins  :wink:

One of those garden hand pump spray things :?  are good for the rad  :D

Seat covers are handy to  :wink:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 16, 2007, 12:19:45
oh i got a massive roll of rubber stuff which is used under ice of ice rinks, gonna make me some mats and a boot tray thing!

seat covers are on the list! wanted simple grey or black, they only had max flower ones in the shop!


Noted on the rad! cheers
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on November 17, 2007, 02:26:30
Thing is a standard LR is pretty capable, if you've got mates who know a bit about what they are doing tag along.

Every one gets stuck once in a while and when it starts to happen you can ask yourself why it happened.

If the answer is driver error, well, you know what to do about that.

But if the answer is equipment then it's time to think about upgrades.

Ask you mates/us lot why we bought the things we did, are they worth the money and would we do it again with the benefit of hindsight. Like I've had my winch ofr 18 months and I've used it 4 times, 3 to move cars out of the garage/onto the trailer and once off-road, hardly worth the money.

Steerring guard, well the big dent in the middle of it should answer that one.

Jackable sills, handy but over rated.

Tank Guard, nice to have, removable tow bar makes it well worth the money (see Guardian about one) but then again it weighs 36 Kg plus the NATO :shock:

Your first big expense might be tyres.  If you plan more radical mods later on these might become redundant down the line, so look for a good set S/H or look after them and sell them on.

But honestly, the biggest difference between our cars when we bought them and our cars now is the state of the paintwork :roll:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Jesska on November 17, 2007, 07:04:26
Quote
But honestly, the biggest difference between our cars when we bought them and our cars now is the state of the paintwork  :roll:


We hardly have ant paint left  :roll:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: redneck on November 17, 2007, 10:32:59
Quote from: "Range Rover Blues"
I've had my winch ofr 18 months and I've used it 4 times, 3 to move cars out of the garage/onto the trailer and once off-road, hardly worth the money.



That's very true as i've only used my winch a couple of times so it's really been quite an expensive item working it out like that, however I used it once to recover a RRC on one occasion (no reflection on the RRC BTW, anything would have got stuck where it did  :wink: ) and just for that one occasion it was worth the money spent alone because there was no way we would have retreived it any other way   :shock:
Title: First time off road?
Post by: richo on November 17, 2007, 17:47:31
Matt t if you go to tixover let me know as iv'e not been there yet[PayPlay virgin]and might be able to tag along if i'm not working.
I also know where all the good lanes are around you .If you get yourself a os map i will give you grid refs.Most of the good lanes are closed around Pboro until about spring so if you up for a bit of laning mate i could show you some one week end.
Footloose 4x4 are good lads ,very helpful .I had my 110 service with them and was very happy with there service.
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 19, 2007, 12:26:23
excellent cheers richo, will give you a bell, think im planning on goin on the 27th or 28th december as im off work

car comes with Collway 4x4 all terrain tyres on, just scouring ebay really for some protectors
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 19, 2007, 13:00:44
any driving tips?  i was thinkin keeping low-ish revs 2nd gear?
Title: First time off road?
Post by: kourgath on November 19, 2007, 13:38:16
Hi Matt.T

plenty of good advice above.

I train novices in a 300tdi disco, I also started off-road driving in 93 ina disco - without bending it.  We have added front bash guard (cheap alloy one quite long, bent on centre of ruts - go for a short steel one) put a Jate ring on the front, use the towball at the back.  We added side sills, diff guards and mud tyres. Removed front spoiler. Tow rope, friends etc as above.

Goes further than many expect, but don't think it will go everywhere.

Advice on driving.  

Get out and watch others. Don't let others egg you on unless you REALLY trust them... Listen to ONE person if getting out of trouble. Never put your motor where your mind hasn't alredy been. If it goes wrong it was probably YOUR fault (wrong line, wrong gear, wrong speed) accept this and learn - nobody knows it all, and/or tyres.  Thick clay will fill up almost any tyre very quickly.

2nd low is the normal trundle about gear, third only if up *slippery* slopes, first for down.  Make sure you centre diff is locked BEFORE you need it, probably as soon as you get on site - if it is anything like ours which can take ages. Need diff-lock as without it you only need one wheel to slip and you've lost power/engine braking. Scary downhill.

Tyres, I'm sure if you asked for a tyre recommendation, you'd probably get tons of answers.  BFG Mud have a lot of fans, but really the good ole Trac Edge was the best overall - can't get them now. I think the nearest is the Goodyear MT/R - expensive but LR use then on G4 challenge.  Maybe a second set of colway MT (remoulds is a good way)

Take it easy, watch, sit in with others using same vehicle, have fun
Gavin / kourgath
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 19, 2007, 14:03:52
cheers, is it best to engage diff lock and drive around like that? i had a defender for a bit and only tried it on the road
Title: First time off road?
Post by: TDi90 on November 19, 2007, 14:20:36
only engage diff lock when you think traction is likely to be lost.
R
Title: First time off road?
Post by: kourgath on November 19, 2007, 14:29:41
Hiya

Diff-lock is one of those things that make a difference to the ways a vehicle behaves.

LR products have full-time 4x4 so require a diff in the centre between front and rear axle as each wheel follows a different path when you turn- drive onto a sand/gravel flat area and do a tight turn and you'll see what I mean.  For off-road driving you want to ensure that power goes to all wheels.  A normal diff will send all the torque to the easiest side to turn - think of it being lazy.  If you lock the diff then you get 50% at each output shaft no matter what. [I'm keeping this discussion within reason, so no tecky LSD/VC/Torsen stuff :) )

On grippy surfaces this diff-lock and 'not same paths' thing can cause damage to the transfer box/centre diff as the wheels/axles need to rotate differently but you won't let them, so something has to give.  Off-road this is fine as it scrubs it away on a slippy bit. On-road it causes handling problems, extra understeer, potential damage as above.

I've suggested putting the diff-lock in (it's only the centre one in a LR unless you paid for more) as it can take some time to engage properly and without it you stop once one wheel spins.  With diff-lock in, you need one wheel on each axle to spin before you stop.  The light being on doesn't always mean it really has gone in so be careful, give it time.

Now without starting a religious war, LR decided not to put axle diff-locks for two reasons, 1)more profit, 2)better suspension design keeps the wheels more evenly loaded on the ground so less chance of a wheel spinning.  Part-time systems don't have a centre diff, so should only be used in 2wd on grippy roads.  Also many 4x4's have different suspension design priorities, so often have less wheel movement so are more likely to cock a wheel in the air, so manufacturers offer a rear diff lock to overcome the downsides of nicer on-road handling. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Land Rover have been fitting Anti-roll bars onto disco's for some time now and these can have a negative effect on off-road abilit traded off with less lean on road.

Cheers
Gavin /kourgath
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 19, 2007, 14:36:07
thanks gavin, i think i understood, we will see, i will soon learn
Title: First time off road?
Post by: baz2236 on November 19, 2007, 14:50:59
Hi I am organizing a trip over to Three Holes near Wisbeach for this weekend it’s a 4x4 pay and play site you are more then welcome to come along its not a very big site like tixover but it might be good for you to get used to your truck and see what it can do.

Here is the link

http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?p=467443#467443
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 19, 2007, 15:30:41
cheers i would, but doubt i will have a car now the disco i was gettin, caught fire!!

another weeknd searchign by the looks of it!
Title: First time off road?
Post by: kourgath on November 19, 2007, 16:30:02
bu&&er me backwards throuh a hedge as a mate used to say (no not in the evening when camping)

Hope you get a decent motor, maybe it's better it caught fire before you bought it not 10 mins after...

C ya G
Title: First time off road?
Post by: Matt.t. on November 19, 2007, 16:34:24
yeh only disco2 i found in my price range too! got a few to look at now, made some phonecalls,

2 S1 discos
1 shogun
Title: First time off road?
Post by: redneck on November 19, 2007, 19:54:17
Quote from: "Matt.t."
yeh only disco2 i found in my price range too! got a few to look at now, made some phonecalls,

2 S1 discos
1 shogun


I notice you're looking at a Shogun, you should also consider a Pajero, here's the differences.

Some Shoguns have a proper locking rear differential which is really nice to have for off road whereas most but not all Paj's have a limited slip rear differential which is pretty good on the slippery stuff (I mostly only need 2wd in mine off road) but ultimately not as good as the locker in the Shoggy however as the Pajero is the japanese inport version of the shoggy (don't panic about insurance BTW it's very cheap for these  :wink: ) and the japanese don't salt their roads in the winter you are far more likely to get a good rust free example of a Paj than a shoggy. As an example I have an F reg paj and it's solid.  :wink:
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal