Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Range Rover Blues on November 20, 2007, 16:23:56
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I heard the other night on the radio that now each one of us has put £700 plus into propping up Northern Rock.
Of course it's a loan and suposedly we can ask for it back at any time, yeah right. If the loan were recalled then they would have to call in their mortgages, so the gov't has us over a barrel. Though as the chancelor has a Northern Rock mortgage I'd laugh if his got recalled.
Anyway, now some numpties are bitching about how much their shares have gone down and they are loosing money, they want the Gov't to step in again with my money and compensate them :evil:
Well I'm sorry but if you gamble your life savings on the stock exchange you get what's coming to you, good or bad. I havn't got the money to invest heavily but even I know it's not guaranteed to make money.
I feel sorry for the folks with money on deposit but the bank of England is only supposed to back up the first £30,000 or so IIRC, again people with that much money being compensated by the tax payer :?
But shareholders I've no sympathy with at all, one guy was saying he's lost £90,000 worth of shares now as the takeover bid valued them at £6,000. Boo-hoo, I never had £6,000 to invest and if I had I'd not have been so greedy with it.
What say you all? given that our road tax went up this year to pay for a war we didn't want, how do you feel about it being used to compensate greedy fools?
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I heard it was £900 each last night :evil:
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That's £200 in the psace of a couple of days. Not funny is it?
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I agree with your views, its a gamble that the investors and share holders seem to have lost.
If I bet on a horse and lost would I get compensation ? ha ha
Just as well I dont gamble and you play the game you pay the price :wink:
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So let me get this right, if someone buys shares in a company then things go wrong and they loss money we (tax payers) have to bail them out???
So how about if they buy shares and they do really well and they make loads of profit do we get to see some of that money??
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Well it seems the way this country is going, first the postal workers strike cos they are asked to actually work the hours they get paid for, and now people who invest money want the government to compensate them cos they made a stupid decision!
Definately time to leave!
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Panda wrote:
So how about if they buy shares and they do really well and they make loads of profit do we get to see some of that money??
Yes, it's called Capital Gains Tax.
Ray
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Well I'm sorry but if you gamble your life savings on the stock exchange you get what's coming to you, good or bad. I havn't got the money to invest heavily but even I know it's not guaranteed to make money.
I feel sorry for the folks with money on deposit but the bank of England is only supposed to back up the first £30,000 or so IIRC, again people with that much money being compensated by the tax payer :?
But shareholders I've no sympathy with at all, one guy was saying he's lost £90,000 worth of shares now as the takeover bid valued them at £6,000. Boo-hoo, I never had £6,000 to invest and if I had I'd not have been so greedy with it.
What say you all?
I'd say 'pick your words with care, neighbour'. :wink:
Above is a great example of what happens when you lump eveyone into the same barrel.
A state pension is worth approximately seven tenths of jack-all. So chances are folk will have a pension plan. This will be based on money they've saved and handed to an investment corp. Where do they invest? In stocks and shares.
I have a pension. I also have a subsidary investment squirreled away so I can (hopefully) have a better pension - 'cos dude, noone wants to be working till they're 90!. Does that make me 'greedy'? The words above say yes. And I take offense at that, because it isn't true.
Please try and remember that some of the folk that complain the loudest about loosing 90K are probably the ones who have been squirreling cash away for a long time - it's possibley their pension fund. Just because they're better savers the me or thee doesn't make all investors money-grabbing fat-cats. Don't get me wrong, some will have invested simply to increase their wealth or distribute there enormour reserves over more funds, but that isn't everybody - not by a long chalk.
Now, the fact that Joe Public is expected to prop a bank up to the tune of 23 billion, could well be an issue, but it perhaps isn't best practice to have an unecessary go at investors - it may be 'misguided' at best. :wink:
Cheers
8)
Eeyore
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I agree with Eeyore on this one
its not bad to be Thrifty and save for the future , and most investment plans involve the shares scene.
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Slightly offended by the implication that anyone with shares who loses them is 'greedy' in the first place.
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No, sorry but I stand by that. The best advice I ever had about trading in stocks and shares was "never invest money you can't afford to loose"
I invested in Freinds Provident just before 9/11, I lost over half of what I put in. That is the risk you take, when I bought them I expected to make a nice 10% on my investment as they were offered at a preferential rate, my pension is with them.
Instead I lost out :roll: .
I don't expect any compensation for my loss, but if they cough up for Northern Rock shareholders then I'll be asking about mine.
Same with investment funds, your financial adviser should give you all the information about how much risk will be involved in your fund, higher returns involve higher risks.
You invest your money and take your choice. If the risk is taken away then it becomes interest, that apparently my tax is paying for :evil:
By perverse coincidence I invested the same amount in FP as I appear to have lent to Northern Rock :?
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Panda wrote:
So how about if they buy shares and they do really well and they make loads of profit do we get to see some of that money??
Yes, it's called Capital Gains Tax.
Ray
Is it? isn't there a personal allowance on capital gains tax?
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You invest your money and take your choice. If the risk is taken away then it becomes interest.
:?
Thats fair comment, but the rest of the opening tirade was badly phrased and, I have to say, pretty unwelcome as a consequence.
It also shows, and I'm sorry to have to say this, a certain naivety of how the international money business works.
I would politely suggest that a step back is taken from this discussion by all parties until such time that they are prepared to take a slightly more open view at the issues. It's either that or it gets locked, I'm afraid.
Cheers
8)
Eeyore
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I think there is a misunderstanding of the word "shareholder."
If you purchase shares on the stock market then you are told quite clearly "the value could go down as well as up". You are taking a gamble and 3rd parties do not want to cover peoples losses. As someone said - if a profit was made it would not be shared out.
However, I don't believe anyone would want so see innocent investers lose their money - ie deposit holders who have saved for their retirement, pensions holders etc.
At the end of the day - NO-ONE deserves to lose their hard earned cash - I think the point is about who would cover the losses.
As a Bank Manager I would like to see other Financial Institutions put their hands in their pocket because ordinary folk will lose faith in the industry otherwise.
We need to remember : It is difficult to put into words what you really mean and we should try and understand each others point of view without trying to see hidden meanings in what people post. I'm sure the majority of people don't want to upset others - they just want to express an opinion.
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Range Rover Blues wrote:
Is it? isn't there a personal allowance on capital gains tax?
Yes, of course, this allows small investors to take some tax free profit on their risky investment and any other unearned income. Panda's question was specific to people who 'made loads of money' - that's the question I answered.
After years of 14 hour days and 7 day weeks, I sold my company and 'retired' at the age of 52 when I realised I was no longer an employer, just an unpaid government social worker. I live off my small portfolio of investments, all low risk. I did not have shares in Northern Rock, in fact I no longer hold any UK shares, nor will I currently invest in UK property.
We now produce little in this country, the financial sector kept us going, this is now in freefall - recession? Watch this space!
Ray