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Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: discorich on February 03, 2008, 16:20:07

Title: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: discorich on February 03, 2008, 16:20:07
i have 200tdi disco 5 door that i am planing on pickuping soon and having had a few problems with my 200 (ie head gasket and timing belt) it is running like a bag of ****. i am trying to work out weather to rebuild the 200tdi or fit a V8 EFI with auto that i might be able to get cheep. i am planning on doing laneing and RTV's but maybe getting a bit more involved in some challenging stuff.

Let me know your input.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: CNorman on February 03, 2008, 17:18:23
Presumably you intend to go off road with it. Mud, angles, slopes and WATER WITH A V8! You sick man. Diesel all day! As every V8 owner will tell you, they sound great! Excellent, that will help you off road...
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: discorich on February 03, 2008, 17:28:10
yeah nice, i know that they dislike water in standard but i have seen some wading rather deep about the same as my 200tdi. yeah it is to be used offroad. hopefully getting more extreme as time goes by.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: james walder on February 03, 2008, 17:43:07
diesel every time  :lol:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Ja1983 on February 03, 2008, 18:07:21
petrol Vs diesel ....again! :lol:

if you have the free time and money, go for the V8, if like me you prefer to spend time in it rather than under it after you`ve been playing.... rebuild the Tdi.

if you go down the route of rebuilding the Tdi, you will also have an engine you know, rather than picking up a cheap v8 that you dont.

IMO a derv is easier to work on, if it isnt running, its most likely because fuel isnt getting through.

A V8 is fantastic in the noise department granted, but i recon a tdi with a less restricted exhaust and higher boost will sound equally as menacing!

to sum it my choice would be rebuild the tdi.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: discorich on February 03, 2008, 18:56:18
that is the way i was thinking, just the hooligan in me was thinking of the nice engine note of a V8.
yeah me thinks 200Tdi, and i never know it might keep running for a bit. i do like the 200 as it likes the water like me.
cheers all for input.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 03, 2008, 19:22:45
as long as the V8 is warterproofed properly you wont have any problems with it, apart from it sounds great a V8i wont give that much of a different MPG to a Boosted 200TDi and you dont get the problem of the cambelt Snapping.

mine is not waterproofed at all and i took it through the lake at my local off road site, big puddles at the same site and through the local ford with realy deep water and only got a few splutters in the lakes and puddles
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 03, 2008, 20:18:14
here we go again
v8 only choice
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 03, 2008, 20:36:19
here we go again
v8 only choice
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8


its more like V 8)

V 8)
V 8)
V 8)
V 8)

 :D :grin:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: L90OOK on February 03, 2008, 20:41:53
here we go again
v8 only choice
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8


& you have had no probs with your V8  :roll:
Sorry bit below the belt  :oops:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 03, 2008, 20:49:33
It is a landy you are expected to have problems, i call it manufacture spec  :lol:

i had as many problems with my 200TDi as i have with my V8's and i blew the TDi up and it wasnt able to be rebuilt  :oops: but the V8 is so easy to rebuild
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 03, 2008, 21:28:25
ive had nothing but megga problems with 1 of my v8's, but thats due to it being built by a [ed: naughty], ive had a good dozen v8's over the last 10 years and except this one in the 110, only 1 gave me a problem and that was the airflow meter packed up.
so , its
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8 everytime. :lol:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 03, 2008, 21:57:47
Dont get me wrong i love Dervs as they save me money but as a play to i want "Loud and Proud" :twisted: so it has to be V8 all the way :lol:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 03, 2008, 22:00:17
good man
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Gav_T on February 03, 2008, 22:03:31
I run a 3.9 v8. The noise it makes (straight through with a side exit) makes the 10mpg worth it everytime! Also a friends tuned 200 tdi (boost,fueling and head work) drinks nearly as much as mine! They dont like water though but this can be fixed.

Gavin.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Range Rover Blues on February 04, 2008, 16:58:15
Sorry, what's this cack about TDis being easier to work on than a V8 :shock:

Hogwash.

A pair of head gaskets on a V8, £40, couple of afternoon's work and a light skim in between.

TDi head, small fortune, local engineering shop wouldn't touch it, more than a week off the road.

V8 hits water, miss fires, v7 leaves water.
TDi hits water, owner discovers physics and that water can't be compressed to 1/18th of it's original volume, engine breaks big style

Both owners spend the next 6 months listening to wheel bearings that are failing due to water ingress whilst sitting in stinky seats.

There's more to life than drowning your stereo :doh:

Either V8 or TDi are very good, very capable motors.  A V8 Auto is going to be a nice thing to drive off-road, it's the way I'm going (if we get a summer this year :roll:).

Not that it's really what you're interested in, but go any distamce and I'd much rather be in a V8, you can hear the stereo, you don't get vibration white-finger and it'll still accelerate at motorway speeds.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: discorich on February 04, 2008, 17:51:13
yeah, distance on the isle of man not a prob as it is only 33 miles long hahaha. but i do intend on joining J33P at seven sisters soon.
what difference for off road ability between V8 carbs and EFI. i can get a EFI cheep (ie free) but i have always been wary of electrics with water, what with having a 200tdi, pahh what eletrics you almost have to wind up the sterio there are that few. are they easy to waterproof?
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Range Rover Blues on February 04, 2008, 17:55:53
TBH I'd go for the Hot-Wire EFi.  Most of the extra power is due to the exhaust manifolds and the head/cam work really but the later hot-wire is pretty reliable and there's much less mechanical stuff to go wrong under the bonnet.  I don't know how carbs like getting muddy TBH but I wouldn't bother with Stoms so unless you can get SUs then go EFi, just place the ECU higher up.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: discorich on February 04, 2008, 18:03:13
the engine in question is out of a rangy, how would i know if it is a hot-wire EFi or a normal one. if this is a stupid question sorry but i know very little about the V8 side of land rovers, but i think i will be finding out more soon by the outcome of this post.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: CNorman on February 04, 2008, 21:43:24
ive had nothing but megga problems with 1 of my v8's, but thats due to it being built by a [ed: naughty], ive had a good dozen v8's over the last 10 years and except this one in the 110, only 1 gave me a problem and that was the airflow meter packed up.
so , its
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8 everytime. :lol:

Apart from the noise, why?
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 04, 2008, 22:07:45
mainly the noise, but also its quite (ish) in the cabin unlike a derv thats noisy, plus much smoother to drive, and worst of all derv stinks and makes your hands stink at the pump.
yes they cost twice as much to run, but you cannot have everything!
of course its personal preferance but.
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8 :lol:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Range Rover Blues on February 05, 2008, 04:20:25
My V8 LPG (3.9 in Blue) costs about as much to run as the 300TDi, it's quieter, cheaper to fix if anything and, well, different to drive.  I guess a bit more relaxing because the engine is more flexible, though the TDi is well-geared.  Not an easy choice and we all have our preferences, but I side with the V8.

Now, the EFi engine had IIRC slightly different rocker covers for a start, the smoother rounder ones with very small flutes along the entire length are either early RRC or SD1.

the later EFi engine, different rocker cover because of the different breathers etc, the inlet holes in the head have little cut-outs for the injector, the exhaust manifold has 2 outlets to the downpipes rather than one (the 3.9 ones with bigger downpipes are worth fitting whatever) and obvioulsy if you have the engine number you can tell what the engine was built to.

As for the EFi, well alomst certainly the plenum will have the engine size cast into it when new, 3.9 or 4.2 being the most common, the plenum is slightly bigger than the flapper system fitted to the EFi.

The hot-wire uses 12 volt injectors, so there is no resistor pack on the bracket for the air box.  the airbox clamps direclty to the hot-wire MAF whereas the flapper type is connected with a short rubber tube (and it's a VAF not a MAF).

There is no 5th injector but there is a idle-bypass stepper motor with a 4-pin plug on the very back of the plenum.

Hmm, what else? the ECU is usually black and square, it will have a year marked on it too which is a help.

There are other differences but these are the ones I remeber and are easy (ish) to look out for ;)
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: discorich on February 05, 2008, 19:13:16
cool cheers range rover blues, i will have a look at that next time i can and see if i can work out which engine. started up the 200 after been sat for 2 weeks whilst i was doing some work on the axle, and it fired on the first turn without the plugs. i was well impressed. i think i might store the V8 incase i get bored of the 200 or if it breaks again.

Cheers all with your help, it seems that this is a long running debate, and let it continue.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 05, 2008, 19:17:16
its not a long running debate, they just will not admitt that its V8 all the way   :lol:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: TDi90 on February 05, 2008, 19:24:57
here we go again
v8 only choice
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8
v8


nah spence is wrong,

Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi

hence my username TDi!!!!
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 05, 2008, 19:30:50
what did i say, he just will not accept it.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Range Rover Blues on February 05, 2008, 19:36:57
Rich, if you're going to store the V8 then drop some clean oil into each cylinder then replace the plugs. Take the rocker covers off, remove the rocker shafts then refit the covers.  This way each cylinder is sealed and less likely to rust inside.

The tape over all the extrenal hole that you can get to .
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: TDi90 on February 05, 2008, 19:37:33
lol  :D
ok ok its a matter of opinion but your opinion is .... well.... not of my opinion shall we say (to keep the mods happy  :-$ )
but i will say on final word(s)
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Tdi
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Guardian. on February 05, 2008, 19:41:55
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:










Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: CNorman on February 06, 2008, 20:49:39
I would go for which ever one you think yopu will enjoy the most.

All i will say though, and this is only from my off roading and only my OPINION.

I have mates with auto's and manual boxes, both great. Rangie, disco, defender and series, great. However, despite various plastic socks and other devices to ensure their v8 performs under water it doesnt. Not very well anyway and certainly not as well as my disco which had no wading mods.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 06, 2008, 22:32:05
I would go for which ever one you think yopu will enjoy the most.

All i will say though, and this is only from my off roading and only my OPINION.

I have mates with auto's and manual boxes, both great. Rangie, disco, defender and series, great. However, despite various plastic socks and other devices to ensure their v8 performs under water it doesnt. Not very well anyway and certainly not as well as my disco which had no wading mods.

sorry i diss agree yes ok i whent down on to 7 cyls for a minute or so but i took My rangie V8 carb through Tixover Lake (anyone who knows it only nutters take trucks with no Wading kits on through there) with no major issues and no wadeing kit at all

see here for a proper bow wave (ok it wasnt through the lake but it was a very deep puddle :lol:)
(http://members.mud-club.com/galleryimages/205961ef5c6ec7f7484f6bf7a34d98cb.jpg)
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: CNorman on February 07, 2008, 19:14:35
Yer your right, it isnt a lake, it is a big puddle....

I went through stuff 50% deeper than that with my bog standard dsco and it never coughed at all, ever.

All i can say is that i had a dedicated off roader which was not used for work and as standard it was significantly better than all my mates v8's which had lots of time effort and money spent on them.

I would have a V8 for speed and performance/noise as i dont think diesels ever really do the job as well. But i would have a diesel for wading as its easier, cheaper and more reliable. Its more fit for purpose in my opinion.

If your works well then that is great but it is not the story i usually find when out with mates.
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Ja1983 on February 07, 2008, 20:21:06
(http://members.mud-club.com/galleryimages/205961ef5c6ec7f7484f6bf7a34d98cb.jpg)

aww... "B1NKY"  :lol:

if its your daily drive, TDi has to be the way... unless you have a gas conversion (and the issues associated with it)

as for a V8 giving similar MPG as a Tdi.......... 20MPG (on a good day) is NOT similar to 30MPG (plus) even after tweeks to boost and pump (and idiot at the wheel!)

noise of a Tdi?? hardly like as bad as a tranny van, and IMO "lets you know its still alive" personally i think its quieter than my rover SDi (turbo derv) i had!

acceleration? mine pulls fine up to 90 (not on a public road of course  :police:) and is rarely left behind...

take the easy route, rebuild the Tdi properly, and know you have a strong engine for years to come, and save what you would be putting into the tank of a V8 for a dedicated toy  :evil:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 07, 2008, 20:28:57
(http://members.mud-club.com/galleryimages/205961ef5c6ec7f7484f6bf7a34d98cb.jpg)
aww... "B1NKY"  :lol:

unfortunatly it is a V not a Y

but i might stick a screw in to make it a Y  [-X :police:

now she has a name BINKY or BINKV  :lol:
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Ja1983 on February 07, 2008, 20:41:21
 :lol: :dance:
Wahey!

mines called Jew (From J*** UDU) ... as its always pinching the pennies! :grin:

Not trying to offend, merely stereotypical humour
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: Range Rover Blues on February 08, 2008, 03:07:21


aww... "B1NKY"  :lol:

if its your daily drive, TDi has to be the way... unless you have a gas conversion (and the issues associated with it)

as for a V8 giving similar MPG as a Tdi.......... 20MPG (on a good day) is NOT similar to 30MPG (plus) even after tweeks to boost and pump (and idiot at the wheel!)

noise of a Tdi?? hardly like as bad as a tranny van, and IMO "lets you know its still alive" personally i think its quieter than my rover SDi (turbo derv) i had!

acceleration? mine pulls fine up to 90 (not on a public road of course  :police:) and is rarely left behind...

take the easy route, rebuild the Tdi properly, and know you have a strong engine for years to come, and save what you would be putting into the tank of a V8 for a dedicated toy  :evil:

Sat outside, 300TDi with R380, 27MPG even after all the mods, electric fan etc.  Good for about 80MPH if you turn up the radio, nippy around town and a good towcar up to about 1,700Kg but don't ever tell me it's not noisey.

Next to it, 3.9 EFi with single point LPG.  Cost roughly the same/mile as the TDi, LT77 gearbox (which is awful) and sports pipe.  The engine is quiet but the diffs are shot.  It's the off-roader though and does very well thanks.

In the corner, 5.0 V8 auto on multipoint, it's never going to be economical but it doesn't use any more fuel towing our 1,900Kg caravan.  Happily tows 2,500Kg.  Biggest noise at, shall we say "cruising speed" is wind noise, despite the sports pipe.  My favourite motorway muncher, but as some **** put a dent in it outside B&Q it's going back into hiding.

At my sister's, 300TDi auto, good towcar.  Bizarely it did 30MPG in Wales and about 21MPG towing IIRC, fairly quick off the mark, comfy but still not as nice to cruise on the motorway as a V8.

I think I can safely say I've tried all possibly combinations, this week.

An LPG V8 wil cost about the same as a TDi, if you drive then both the same.  The V8 is capable of using more fuel.

Manual/auto is a matter of preference, either is a good choice and each has it's merrits.  For towing I'd go auto, I prefer auto off-road for the smooth power delivery and the engine braking is fine, my V8 can hold back the 'van on a 1 in 10 without using low box ;).  For economy I'd be tempted to say manual, but I'm not sure I can back it up with facts. In traffic, auto.

When buying a used LR, buy on condition and don't walk away from a good car because it's got the "wrong" engine or 'box.  If you want one or the other specifically then be prepared to look a bit harder for what you want (I spent a year looking for an LSE).
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: CNorman on February 08, 2008, 18:39:30


Sat outside, 300TDi with R380, 27MPG even after all the mods, electric fan etc.  Good for about 80MPH if you turn up the radio, nippy around town and a good towcar up to about 1,700Kg but don't ever tell me it's not noisey.

I will tell you its not noisy! I had a 300tdi with an R380 with 133000 on the clock and it was excellent. Very refined and made less noise than my petrol suzuki grand viatara!
Title: Re: 200TDI or V8EFI
Post by: ben_haynes on February 08, 2008, 19:23:07
I will tell you its not noisy! I had a 300tdi with an R380 with 133000 on the clock and it was excellent. Very refined and made less noise than my petrol suzuki grand viatara!

What do you expect from a Suzuki

My mums Disco 300TDi Auto is very noisy, ok my rangie has nearly Straight through Exhaust system but if i leave them idling i can hear that Dirty deisel :roll: over the purr of my V8 :drool:
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