Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: joe90 on February 04, 2008, 17:55:08
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Ok Guys
So which is the better tow car a SWB 2.0L Frontera Sport or a SWB TD4 Freelander ?
Thanks for voting
Joe
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Ok, to the 1 person who voted for the immitation 4x4 produced by vauxhall, i have only 1 thing to say!!!
YAH BOO SUCKS!!!!
hehe
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Tough choice TBH, tough.
I've never spent a lot of time in either, but I have to say I know people who have had frontys and towed with them too, they do well. They are also pretty tough off-road (anyone remeber Barry Scott?) and cheapish in parts being a recycled Cavalier.
Freebie TD4, hmm, good engine, the later IRD so less prone to failure, not sure if it will develop that annoying humm the early ones had (10 minutes and I'd rather walk). Capable off road, but no low-box (don't know about the Fronty, but that is an Isuzu in drag).
As a tow car, well the Fronty is RWD with T-box, the Freebie is FWD with expensive IRD to bust.
Buy a RRC :D
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fronty is OK...bit light for 'serious' towing..freebie well has a bit more low down grunt and little bit more weight....Fronty has lo range but no diff lock - freebie hasnt got either, fronty will be cheaper...and slightly easier to fix............heavier on juice tho'
pretty much 'ya pays ya money and takes ya choice'
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One person who dont know what they are talking about
Ok, to the 1 person who voted for the immitation 4x4 produced by vauxhall, i have only 1 thing to say!!!
YAH BOO SUCKS!!!!
hehe
And one very good answer.
fronty is OK...bit light for 'serious' towing..freebie well has a bit more low down grunt and little bit more weight....Fronty has lo range but no diff lock - freebie hasn't got either, fronty will be cheaper...and slightly easier to fix............heavier on juice tho'
pretty much 'ya pays ya money and takes ya choice'
The SWB frontera is a little on the light side for towing any thing bigger than a very small caravan, but having low range is a great little play toy
If i was buying just to tow, i hate to say it but i think i might choose the freaklander! unless i could get hold of an early 2.8TD Frontera ;)
Cheers
Mark
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When you look at the age of the cars it would be hard to compare.
Having owned a Frontera Sport 20L I was surprised at how nippy it was for a small engine in a heavy car, but I reckon it would struggle a bit as a tow car, and be a bit thirsty.
Not having owned the Freelander I couldnt comment but if is a deisil I should imaging it would be the better of the two.
Now as commented, you wouldnt beat a good 2.8tdi though your car would be a bit older.
I wouldnt knock any car Ive never owned or put to the test even then you have good and bad ones. ;)
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Aha, but i did have a Frontera once, and i never would again!! I didnt like it one bit!!!
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Sorry, bettyblue22's post was mine, forgot to sign her out of her laptop before posting :oops:
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You may want to consider a SWB Pajero too. Comfort, bullet proof (2.8TD or 3.5 Petrol unless you can afford the newer shape) and very capable offroad too if that's your thing. Don't rate the 2.5 myself much.
If I had to choose between the above, then the Fronty would have it. Seen far too many freebies go wrong to ever recommend one. Even ex LR mechanics advise people not to buy them! (Especially the 1.8 petrol one) Don't know much about the TD4 though.
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Fronty has lo range but no diff lock - freebie hasnt got either
It has a viscous unit instead of the diff lock, much like the later Range Rover Classics (and I think early P38?).
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How about a Terrano II The 2.7 diesel can pull very well and give a reasonable MPG if you don't gun it.
Great value for money, easy to fix and is as reliable as any jap car should be.
I love mine.
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Fronty has lo range but no diff lock - freebie hasnt got either
It has a viscous unit instead of the diff lock, much like the later Range Rover Classics (and I think early P38?).
It's similar fluid but the big difference is that in a RRC there is still a proper diff which is locked up with a thermoviscous fluid, a clever LSD if you like whereas the freeby uses only the fluid in the event that the front wheels spin out, so all the drive goes thorugh the fluid.
Think 4WD Cavaliler ;)
My mate has towed about 1,500kg with a SWB Funtera 2.0, quite capable but being him he sold it when someone wanted it, he's a car dealer after all, and my neighbour regularly tows well over a tonne with his.
However, someone mention the Bitsa'-missin' Pajero? sensible man ;) Not my cup of tea but a clever choice, reliable, capable etc etc. Good tow car, as is the Terrano/Maveric TBH.
And what about a nice SWB Trooper :-k
Your best bet then is to look a little wider than funtera vs freebie, there are other choices out there that might make more sense.
(then say hang it all and buy a RRC :twisted:)
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Fronty has lo range but no diff lock - freebie hasnt got either
It has a viscous unit instead of the diff lock, much like the later Range Rover Classics (and I think early P38?).
It's similar fluid but the big difference is that in a RRC there is still a proper diff which is locked up with a thermoviscous fluid, a clever LSD if you like whereas the freeby uses only the fluid in the event that the front wheels spin out, so all the drive goes thorugh the fluid.
Ahh, I wasn't aware that the RR still retained a proper central diff with the viscous setup.
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dont go for the gaylander ;)
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theres also the RAV 4 ...CRV....Grand Vitara.....Isuzu Trooper.....SSanyong musso (cheap but capable + merc engine..) suppose it all comes down to what your towing - and where you want to get to whilst towing!
if its a pure on road tow vehicle dont rule out the good old Volvo estate.....
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dont go for the gaylander ;)
But it's a TDi :angel:
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suppose it all comes down to what your towing - and where you want to get to whilst towing!
if its a pure on road tow vehicle dont rule out the good old Volvo estate.....
That's a good point, what are you towing Joe?
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dont go for the gaylander ;)
But it's a TDi :angel:
the man has a point :oops:
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suppose it all comes down to what your towing - and where you want to get to whilst towing!
if its a pure on road tow vehicle dont rule out the good old Volvo estate.....
That's a good point, what are you towing Joe?
Its a friend of ours who have brought it for towing a car trailer to and from Liverpool fetching cars for there business...they reckoned it was rated a better tow car than the freelander...They had a choice between an W reg Fronty or an X reg Freelander.
I have to admit ive got a TD4 Es and love it - pretty good off road as im sure Schuee can vouch - I've towed a big Ifor Williams Trailer with it full of logs with Also use it at work for towing out a IRTEC Irrigation unit and never had a problem.
This leads to another question tho - if its used for business and the total train weight is over 3.5t am i right in thinking it needs a Tacho fitting?
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W reg then its the 2.2 ecotec engine not the 20L cav engine.
Newer shape B serise with on the fly 4wd.
Very nice interior should have a few toys.
It will tow a car trailer very well, as its alot more powerfull than the old 20l engine, smooth ride to.
I like the swb sport, a good looking car IMO ;)
About 30 mpg average ;)
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This leads to another question tho - if its used for business and the total train weight is over 3.5t am i right in thinking it needs a Tacho fitting?
Glad to see you are on the ball Joe, yes it does need a tacho fitting though AFAIK it won't need a comercial test on either car or trailer.
Any sort of signwriting on either car or trailer and expect a pull to see the tacho, obviously "billy blog's trailer hire" won't raise any eyebrows, but "the tidy bush" landscape gardeners might ;)
For towing cars htough, I'd choose the Funtera, when it goes wrong (towing 1 1/2 tonnes minimum it will go wrong) it will cost less to fix and the tyres will survive better.
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TBH if it was me (and i do tow a transport trailer) i would have to go for a LWB frontera or perhaps a disco just for the extra weight, extra power/engine braking (and perhaps being rated to tow more)
My Fronty hitched up ready to go quiet a few years ago before all the modifications :shock:
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p130/l666mud/landyonthetrailer.jpg)
Cheers
Mark
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We had a isuzu trooper 3.1td and it was amazing at towing it would tow all day long at 60mph and I used to forget I had the van on the back,the frontera is a trooper in disguise but a mate of mine had a 2.0 petrol and it was VERY thirsty,get a diesel for towing
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IMHO, most of these are not suitable for towing another car!
Avg light trailer is 750Kg. Basic 90 is what, 1700Kg without to many toys. Most of these have a towing weight of ~2000K don't they.
I use a Merc ML for towing, 3500Kg tow limit, used to use a Paj LWB which also had the 3500kg tow limit. IIRC the Daihatsu fourtrack was the only SWB to have a good towing weight last time I looked (a few years back) of ~2800Kg (I've not gone off to check these, they are just off the top of my head)
EE
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Yep,if your gonna tow summat big and heavy you need a big heavy motor with plenty of torque not power to do the job (trooper,disco,lwb paj,4trak,landcruiser)if you dont youll knock 7 bells out of the clutch,cooling system and suspension, trooper was spot on 4 towing when we had it :D
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IMHO, most of these are not suitable for towing another car!
Avg light trailer is 750Kg. Basic 90 is what, 1700Kg without to many toys. Most of these have a towing weight of ~2000K don't they.
3,500kg actually. :wink:
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Yeah,the 90 has a towing limit of 3500kg but I wouldnt like to try it!!! maybe in a 110!!!
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I was talking about the 90 on the trailer :)
If you tow more than the designed limit, you have no insurance and are a hazzard on the road (Like caravan drivers and tractors :evil: :lol: :lol:)
Freelander is 1800Kg towing weight. less 750 (for a good ally trailer, nearer 1000Kg for a "Solid" ones) and you may be able to tow a motorcycle on it :)
97 - 03 Freelander TD4 - 1800Kg
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=20842
Fronty 2.0 Petrol - 2000Kg
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=5564
Fronty 2.2DTI - 2400Kg
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=15813
Fronty 2.5TDS - 2000Kg
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=12252
EE
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I had a caravan and I wasnt a hazard,I have a full HGV class one licence and I can drive anything on the road professionally as well!!! and I dont know whether you know,but there is a speed limit of 60mph for a car and caravan,just like all HGVs are limited to 56mph.But as far as the freelander is concerned you are just about right
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Our Brian James is 500KG empty and will carry 2,200Kg. Even so you won't find many cars that weigh less than 1,000kg and a family car will be around 1,200kg, perhaps more.
I think given an open choice it would be a 110 TDi, the extra wheelbase makes a difference with stability and the weight is certainly there, as is the grunt, but Joe was asking "given the choice between X & Y, which would you choose?", if I understand him correctly.
My personal choice for towing BIG things is my LSE, it has the same weight capacity as a 110, the same wheelbase but it has more weight on the back end when empty which is important.
It's also got a hoofin' big V8 on LPG, uprated suspension with a monster rear ARB, that and the 108" wheelbase make it very stable, plus it has cruise.
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Our Brian James is 500KG empty and will carry 2,200Kg. Even so you won't find many cars that weigh less than 1,000kg and a family car will be around 1,200kg, perhaps more.
I think given an open choice it would be a 110 TDi, the extra wheelbase makes a difference with stability and the weight is certainly there, as is the grunt, but Joe was asking "given the choice between X & Y, which would you choose?", if I understand him correctly.
My personal choice for towing BIG things is my LSE, it has the same weight capacity as a 110, the same wheelbase but it has more weight on the back end when empty which is important.
It's also got a hoofin' big V8 on LPG, uprated suspension with a monster rear ARB, that and the 108" wheelbase make it very stable, plus it has cruise.
you got one of them special vehicles ones??? ive only ever seen one!!! you got a pic of it side on?
See although it may have a V8 and an auto box to help the towing i know that i wouldnt half miss the extendable mirrors fitted to defenders!!!
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erm, what extendable mirrors fitted to defenders?
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gavindouglas.com/Land%2520Rover%252090%2520County%25202.5%2520petrol%2520blue.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.gavindouglas.com/Land%2520Rover%252090%2520County%25202.5%2520petrol%2520blue.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=246&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=Km2YyBa_gAAlGM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dland%2Brover%2B90%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enGB246GB248
Long link - click on piccy to make bigger :oops:
Oh and this is his LSE
http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/Range%20Rover%20Blues/gallery/LSE/0/95a4278173ad6af0022e27b07d3f75eb.JPG/
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I had a caravan and I wasnt a hazard,I have a full HGV class one licence and I can drive anything on the road professionally as well!!! and I dont know whether you know,but there is a speed limit of 60mph for a car and caravan,just like all HGVs are limited to 56mph.But as far as the freelander is concerned you are just about right
Spot the smilies at the end of the statement :roll: I used to drive tractors too! Still cuss them :)
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OK :lol: I bit the line,just reel me in hook line and sinker :lol: :lol:
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erm, what extendable mirrors fitted to defenders?
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gavindouglas.com/Land%2520Rover%252090%2520County%25202.5%2520petrol%2520blue.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.gavindouglas.com/Land%2520Rover%252090%2520County%25202.5%2520petrol%2520blue.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=246&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=Km2YyBa_gAAlGM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dland%2Brover%2B90%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enGB246GB248
Long link - click on piccy to make bigger :oops:
Oh and this is his LSE
http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/Range%20Rover%20Blues/gallery/LSE/0/95a4278173ad6af0022e27b07d3f75eb.JPG/
Ahh right, didnt know the LSE's were longer, i was thinking of them ones modified by some gun manufacturer or other that are extended wheelbse.
I didnt quite get the first link? Defender mirrors fold out to increase in width, very very usefull with wide trailers.
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think horse box (similar weight)
...at the front is usually sat:
Defender110
Disco TDI
Daihatsu fourtrak - my recommendation as tow car
hilux
etc
as above, my choice would be the fourtrak, bits are a tad pricey, but all mine suffered from after heavy HEAVY beatings, was a front auto hub, and the front bumper fell off!
plenty of power, as good as the disco on fuel, and move faster than a nuns first curry once you`ve upped the fuel and boost a bit!
also cheap too!
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you got one of them special vehicles ones??? ive only ever seen one!!! you got a pic of it side on?
See although it may have a V8 and an auto box to help the towing i know that i wouldnt half miss the extendable mirrors fitted to defenders!!!
All the LSEs are factory cut and shut. As few new panels were produced as possible and roughly 4,000 a year were built. As for the other bits it was modyfied by a company called oblique engineering (who are no longer in business) and they fitted the TVR Chimera 500 engine, uprated ARBs and re-callibrated the EAS as well as tinkering with the 'box. I've fitted Arnott GIII air springs which make it more progressive, and it's now on Britpart Cellular Dynamics, I found ProComps a bit too hard.
As for the mirrors, I just use a set of strap-ons (oh-err missus) when I've got the 'van on, but I don't need them with the car trailer.
the law says you need mirrors that extend beyond the width of the trailer body (which is a car) but cannot extend more than 200mm beyond the overall width of the trailer ;) so with a car trailer or horsebox they are optional.
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Freelander is 1800Kg towing weight. less 750 (for a good ally trailer, nearer 1000Kg for a "Solid" ones) and you may be able to tow a motorcycle on it :)
The TD4 Freelander has a towing capacity of 2000Kgs. Not sure where Parkers book of lies get there data from :roll:
We tow a horse box or a flatbed with it, no problems. Tows very well. Horse box, plus two dog meats, sorry horses :lol: come in at around 1500 kgs.
Took some scrap cast iron on the flatbed trailer with the 110 last year and the whole rig weighed in at just under 5 tonnes :shock: It wasn't a pleasant trip :lol:
A friend has a SWB Frontera and tows regularly. He does find it a bit thirsty when towing though. He now has gas fitted.
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Did you find yourself in low box when you were shifting 5 tonnes then :-. that the reason the Disco/RRC/Defender are rated to tow so much more than a freebie.
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Did you find yourself in low box when you were shifting 5 tonnes then :-. that the reason the Disco/RRC/Defender are rated to tow so much more than a freebie.
No, but it was..... err..... a little slow off the mark and anything above 40 was seriously scary :shock: :lol:
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Freelander is 1800Kg towing weight. less 750 (for a good ally trailer, nearer 1000Kg for a "Solid" ones) and you may be able to tow a motorcycle on it :)
The TD4 Freelander has a towing capacity of 2000Kgs. Not sure where Parkers book of lies get there data from :roll:
We tow a horse box or a flatbed with it, no problems. Tows very well. Horse box, plus two dog meats, sorry horses :lol: come in at around 1500 kgs.
Took some scrap cast iron on the flatbed trailer with the 110 last year and the whole rig weighed in at just under 5 tonnes :shock: It wasn't a pleasant trip :lol:
A friend has a SWB Frontera and tows regularly. He does find it a bit thirsty when towing though. He now has gas fitted.
Horse box of me mums with 2 big ish horses comes in an about 3t i think, most horses weigh a ton is IIRC
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A shire horse is about a tonne, maybe a tad over, but a decent horsebox will be rated at around 3 tonnes I guess.
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When i bought my 110 a year or two back we went to fetch it on the ifor towing it with me mates disco. now this discos gearbox had been on its way out for a while and it had lost 2nd and 4th (unusual because 4th is direct drive which is normally the last to fail) so we picked it up from tadcaster and towed it back with only 1st 3rd and 5th. the motorway slip road was a nightmare. luckily the pump and turbo is wound right up but still a horrific experience!
Was a credit to the disco though, the transfer box probably needed replacing as well from all the high/low transitions we did!
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I'd have towed the Disco back with the 110 then :?
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yeah true but no tax test or insurance.