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Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: marky on March 09, 2008, 19:57:56

Title: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 09, 2008, 19:57:56
Just got back and settled in after a good day out laning, but to put a bit of a damper :azn: on things I managed to brake a brand new decarbon shock. I'd only just replaced it after breaking the last one while out laning 2 weeks ago. :(. the bottom threaded part has sheared off both times has anybody got any suggestions why this could be happening.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on March 09, 2008, 20:01:50
I'm thinking the same, it sounds like it's either just sheared off becuase it tat, or becasue it's got over-stressed when you've been articulated.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 09, 2008, 20:19:20
Wow thanks for the quick replies chaps. It has been lifted, but not with spacers, +2"110 Decarbons and +2" springs all round. The previous owner worked for an expedition place and has looked after the truck, he often took it pay and play and seemed to know what he was talking about when i contacted him to find out what shocks they were. As for fitting the replacement, I made sure I put it on how I took it off. I've owned my disco for about 6 months, its my first 4x4 and i'm loving it, Ive been out  regularly but its just the last 2 outings have resulted the same way! Could it be anything to do with the anti roll bar as the rubbers are very worn and I was thinking of taking it off completely.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on March 09, 2008, 20:23:27
ARB shouldn't make any difference to the shocks, if anything it will limit the travel which we suspect has damaged the shock.. It's been the same corner both times hasn't it?

Is it front or rear?
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 09, 2008, 20:45:05
Yeah, its the rear drivers side both times
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 09, 2008, 20:48:59
No, nothing like that, but the wife takes the bumps a bit quicker than I do :'(
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Ruprick on March 09, 2008, 20:51:39
Hi.
The ARB does make a difference.
I know someone who broke 2 rear shocks (both off side) within about a month and this was because the ARB caused more strain on the shocks as the angle of the axle was all wrong for the length of shock and spring.
Take the ARB off and you shouldn't have anymore troubles.
(Unless you get airborne like I did a while ago :oops: :oops: :oops:)

HTH Cheers, Al
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 09, 2008, 20:55:50
Now i like the sound of that 
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Sharpshooter on March 09, 2008, 21:12:30
Do you have the extended bump stops??
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 09, 2008, 21:29:23
no,I dont think so
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: davidlandy on March 09, 2008, 21:42:29
the domed bush washers on the bottom could be the wrong way round - this restricts the shocker movement on the bush under articulation and can cause snapping.

Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Guardian. on March 09, 2008, 21:45:35
with the bit left on the shock, does it look atall bent  or sheared?
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: DiscoDan on March 09, 2008, 22:05:26
Hi.

You could ring David at Llama 4x4 who is very informative on this matter, something to do with the shoulder on the shock stud.

Hope this helps, Dan
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on March 10, 2008, 04:22:29
MINE HAS 2"LIFT SPRINGS AND DECARBONS AND ARB'S NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.  DONT SEE HOW THEY COULD CAUSE A SHOCK TO BREAK.

Ditto, except that Blue has twin rear ARB and the LSE has the ARB from hell under there.  I've ripped the ARB mounts off before now but I can't see how they can put extra strain on the shockers, if anything by limiting articulation they should save the shocker some grief :-k
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: clbarclay on March 10, 2008, 17:17:00
What bushes are you using with the dampers?
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 10, 2008, 18:05:47
Thanks for all the helpfull comments so far I although I dont think I ve found a solution yet.I ve tried ringing scorpian racing (who make decarbons, according to delphi?!) and they said they'd ring back!? I replaced the latest shock exactly the way a professional had fitted the previous one (bottom washer smallest face upwards etc). I ve also considered replacing with a different make but thought that something must be wrong (or can be improved) for this to happen in the first place. I cant really tell whether they have bent, theres only about 1mm left. Why would I want extended bump stops, wouldnt they limit artiulation?
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Muddyblue on March 10, 2008, 18:16:19
I did the same a couple of years ago , broke two shocks in two months , put it down to manufacturing fault as both were same batch code , checked others of same code against a different batch , the weld looked "dodgy" . Mine were Pro-comp though but just a thought ? .
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 10, 2008, 18:20:05
The top bushes look like original, same in the botton mount. Now you ve just reminded me, heres where the problem may lie, the shocks are +2" 110 (just right for artic and comfort, according to the previous owner?  I wouldnt know being a newbie) and to make it fit with what came in the box i was left over with a large washer and a rubber, exactly the same setup as the professional install. looks fine to me though, no problems with other side?
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on March 11, 2008, 02:58:47
I think I had some bits left over with mine, it's possible they are for the top mount though, worth looking.

I'd be taking the new one back for a refund, if you fitted it the same as the good one on the paseneger's side that's still going strong then I reckon you did right, I do remeber they fit together a bit differently to the Pro-Comp which TBH are what i tend to fit, I like DeCarbon but I end up fitting Pro-Comp :?

Oh, don't ever bother with polybushg damper bushes, unless you want to feel every pebble on the road :-.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: clbarclay on March 11, 2008, 17:58:03
Oh, don't ever bother with polybushg damper bushes, unless you want to feel every pebble on the road :-.

Genuine blue (aka comfort) Polybush bushes for the eye end atleast are fine, though some of the other polyurethane bushes leave a lot to be desired. I found the deflex bushes to be a particuarly amusing, they are over sized to say the least and with the old style damper mounts (big split pin rather than a nut holding the bush on) I couldn't physically fit them if I wanted to. A friend with the later style of mounts did manage to screw them on, this was taken not long afterwards in the middle of wales

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/clbarclay/DSCF0070s.jpg)

That picture shows half the story, as he had in fact done exactly the same to the other side at the same time. I know they dampers are procomps, though I suspect the fact there was virtually no movement left in the bush had a lot more to do with these failures.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 13, 2008, 16:55:26
Should I be fitting extended bump stops or replacing the bushes, or is it just a simple case of over tightening the bolts - if so how tight should they be. I'm about to refit the old one from the passenger side to see if the same happens to that. I thought that it may have just been a common newbie mistake, but I can't seem to find any conclusive answers anywhere. Looked on other forums (although only posted here) but still no luck.
Also, Ive been looking at things like long travel shocks, extended mounts, spring spacers etc, but moneys a bit tight at the moment. Would any of these remedy the problem or would it be pointless until I solve this. Thanks for all of the imput so far
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Thrasher on March 13, 2008, 16:59:31
I've had decarbons fitted to Piglet for nearly 9 years now. Never had one break. I can only assume there is either an issue with your axle (twisted maybe?) causing undue stress on the mount point, or, as pointed out, the domed washer is being fitted upside down.

I still run with anti-roll bars and no extended bump stops.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Niel on March 13, 2008, 17:16:59
Just got back and settled in after a good day out laning, but to put a bit of a damper :azn: on things I managed to brake a brand new decarbon shock. I'd only just replaced it after breaking the last one while out laning 2 weeks ago. :(. the bottom threaded part has sheared off both times has anybody got any suggestions why this could be happening.
Knackered bushes allowing the axle to twist.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 13, 2008, 17:41:21
What sort of issue, how would Iknow if the axles twisted, looks ok.Which bushes would they be then?
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Niel on March 13, 2008, 20:19:39
What sort of issue, how would Iknow if the axles twisted, looks ok.Which bushes would they be then?
Any of the bushes in the suspension, esp. if several have gone soft.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: marky on March 14, 2008, 18:18:37
Ive just put my old passenger side shock back on and noticed that the thread  IS slightly bent. Does this point towards worn bushes? I think i might be getting close to an answer
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: davidlandy on March 14, 2008, 19:53:22
if the thread is bent then i reckon that shows that the shocker isnt able to move enough
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Tommo on March 14, 2008, 21:13:08
hang on a second, which way up do the washers go??? everyones said 'the right way up' but no one has said which way is the right way up! got me all worried!
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on March 15, 2008, 03:55:08
That's a good question.  For off-road I prefer to fit them convex side inwards, you'll find them easier to fit that way too, if you fit them concave side in the thread might not reach for a start unless you can comress the bushes.

IIRC DeCarbon have a definite stop on the thread when you are tightening up which Pro-Comp don't have, it's oftne said to tighten the bushes just enough to eliminate play in them, you can always nip them up if they start to wear.
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: davidlandy on March 15, 2008, 09:15:27
mine are fitted -

top mount , the nut tightens onto the concave side of the washer

bottom mount , the top washer has the concave side facing upwards toward the shocker body, then the bush, thru the axle then the other bush then the next washer with the concave side facing downwards then the nut.

hope this makes sense!
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Tommo on March 15, 2008, 16:29:40
hmmm, mine are fitted concave side upwards, always figured this was the way it went as it held the bush in rather than encouraging it to splay out. Ill see how it goes. but ive got 300tdi axles and the shock mounts have the inner cup fixed to them and that is concave side facing the bush. 
Title: Re: Broke 2 shocks in 2 outings, any ideas why?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on March 15, 2008, 16:59:43
Ahm there is another point, if the original bush "cup" is still there the bushes are a lot stiffer,aftermarket shicks are not necessarily designed to have these in place.  If they are thee you definitley want you washers convex side in, otherwise the bush is too constrained (you might also hear the washer hitting the cup).
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