200TDi problem

[ninety]

Hello

I'm trying to diagnise a fault on a friend's 200TDi (H-reg) discovery.

It's a pig to start in the morning.  It turns over and over and over, then fires into life, then quits, and this cycle repeats 3 or 4 times until eventually, it will barely tick over, with your foot flat to the floor.

If you release your foot it stops.

it gradually gets better, until it runs on all 4, but until all 4 are running it bellows thick white smoke out.

Once it's running, it's not bad.  It drives ok, but it quite white-smokey on overrun.

Once it's warm, it starts first time too.

While it's running on the one cylinder, but before it has all 4 going, I tried loosening the nuts on the injectors to see if fuel was getting there.  3 of them are very foamy, and one is liquid spurts.

As it gets better, the fuel seems to get more liquid.

So, is there some kind of fault with the injector pumps on these that can inroduce air into the system?

I cannot see any trace of a fuel leak, thinking that if air was getting in, fuel could get out.  Have jetwashed it today to make it easier to see leaks.

Thanks

Colin

[beast5680]

check the filters and see if there is water in the fuel
check all the connections to make sure they are airtight, i have had a problem with the ones on the tank sender before under the rear floor

if its a pig to start you may have another problem with the glow plugs not working

it is possible you have a head gasket problem if you get loads of white smoke this can be an indicator of water getting into the combustion cycle, does it use water? or pressurise the system?

anyone else have any thoughts?

[muddyweb]

I have to say it sounds like a duff injection pump to me.

The only other idea I have is that the injectors might be leaking... so the pressure in the lines is disappearing overnight...  but that is a pretty long shot and I'm not event sure it would cause the symptoms.

[ninety]

check the filters and see if there is water in the fuel

Could be worth checking - will add it to the list of things to try.

check all the connections to make sure they are airtight, i have had a problem with the ones on the tank sender before under the rear floor

Again - will add it to  the list of things to check.  Have checked all the ones under the bonnet, looking mainly for fuel leaks, rather than holes in pipes.

if its a pig to start you may have another problem with the glow plugs not working

Glow pulgs definately working (or at least one of them is!) - I get a voltage drop and dimming of lights etc etc.

it is possible you have a head gasket problem if you get loads of white smoke this can be an indicator of water getting into the combustion cycle, does it use water? or pressurise the system?

I had considered this as I've just replace the CHG on their 300TDi.I don't think this is the case because it doesn't pressurise the system, and it doesn't consume water.

Thanks for the reply :)

[Dr Neil]

it might be worth checking the cambelt timing/pump timing,if the belt is worn it could have gone slack varying the timing. the pump could be out of timing,if everything else is o.k. check the pump timing. Paul on the club has done a "howto" on adjusting the pump timing!
just a thought....

[ninety]

I have to say it sounds like a duff injection pump to me.

Think I'm fighting two problems.

One is that the timing may be out slightly, causing light amoiking on acceleration and deleceration, and the other problem is a possible fuel supply problem.

The only other idea I have is that the injectors might be leaking... so the pressure in the lines is disappearing overnight... but that is a pretty long shot and I'm not event sure it would cause the symptoms.

It could be something like that. It just started doing it one day.

Thanks

Colin

[beast5680]

as an aside when the head gasket went on my 200tdi it only went on the no4 cylinder to an oil way so didnt pressurise but smoked like anything as it consumed all the oil.

if you,ve had water thru the injection pump it will give the symptoms you have

if only one glow plug works it will still be a pig to start from cold as they do need all 4 to give it a kick into life

[muddyweb]

The issue is that it is a repeatable fault.  Water in the system might cause it once, but unless there is water getting into the fuel line every time I'm not sure it would happen.

A glow plug might make starting difficult, but once a diesel is spinning, the rest of the cylinders ought to fire straight away.

The fact that there is a progressive return of firing says to me that it has to be fuel related rather than electrical or mechanical (like a head gasket or timing)


Maybe worth taking all the high pressure lines off and giving them a good clean through then bleeding them manually and re-attaching.

If water has got into the system, then hopefully the filters will have caught some of it.  Water in a diesel injection pump isn't good.