Don't let Mud-Club go the pay <Name Removed> went!

[Hightower]

But he never put anything Illegal on that post...!

But that's the point, he didn't have to.  

You only need one disgruntled member who finds their child accessing dodgy content that was linked through a Mud Club post and you have a complaint on your hands.  Depending on how dodgy that content is and the feelings of that parent it could go further.

I for one am glad that this kind of moderation takes place and, like Eeyore and others, applaud their efforts.

[datalas]

The post that was deleted from Mikee can be seen as "loss of free speech" but then it can also be seen potential to upset people and create an argument.  Mikee didnt kick off so the rest of us shoudl not too.  This thread has proved we can all have a dam good debate about this.

Just to point out, the post wasn't deleted, it can still be seen.. :)

Ironically we're being accused of heavy handedness and going the way that many a forum and club has gone before.  However, locking a thread is by no means the same as deleting it.  The only case where a post is ever edited is where it's content is deemed to be sufficiently offensive to remove particular words etc.  Most of this is done automatically.

If a post *is* offensive, or is complained about and there isn't a simple way of converting the language contained within to something which won't offence then it may be deleted.  This is the only case under which a moderator has the right to delete a post, and even then it is sufficiently tricky to make them think long and hard about doing so.

[TimM]

I think Landyman 1978 is talking about the 'offensive' threads which (I assume) have been removed, rather than the 'poll' for him staying/going.

[datalas]

I think Landyman 1978 is talking about the 'offensive' threads which (I assume) have been removed, rather than the 'poll' for him staying/going.

Well, I wasn't having a go anyhow.  Merely pointing out that if at all possible the posts are left as is, only in some cases are they automatically edited to tone the swearing down, although the automated system is a bit thick really so occasionally it needs someone else to do it.

As for editing people's posts to make them sound bad, what does that say about the opinions of the moderators?  I do find that mildly offensive as it's blatently accusing me (and friends / colleagues / people I have met) of doing things which I consider deeply uncivilised and amoral.  Still, different people have different opinions I suppose.

[EvilEd]

So far, the only reason that has been listed for the post being locked is that it could get

it was locked to prevent it being hijacked and turning into a devisive, destructive thread.

Surely now that reason is gone....! The weird bit is that the destructiveness was caused by the locking and not the thread itself ?

[EvilEd]

As for editing people's posts to make them sound bad, what does that say about the opinions of the moderators?  I do find that mildly offensive as it's blatently accusing me (and friends / colleagues / people I have met) of doing things which I consider deeply uncivilised and amoral.  Still, different people have different opinions I suppose.

I said that is how it ended up on <Name Removed>, This is how it started!Edit: - no offence was intended

[muddyweb]

So, let me get this straight.

The only thing you are now complaining about is that we haven't explained the detail of the reasons for locking that thread ?

[datalas]

Or was it :)

Sadly we have no way of knowing whether the posts would have invited open criticism and descended into anarchy had it not been locked, that's the nature of time I suppose.  Although, provided certain dimensional theories are actually accurate then there is somewhere an alternative version of you and me debating why the thread wasn't locked...

Oooh.. Metaphysics

[EvilEd]

Or was it :)

Sadly we have no way of knowing whether the posts would have invited open criticism and descended into anarchy had it not been locked, that's the nature of time I suppose.  Although, provided certain dimensional theories are actually accurate then there is somewhere an alternative version of you and me debating why the thread wasn't locked...

Oooh.. Metaphysics

Oh please... not at 10:40am on a Tuesday... (Or any other day for that matter :))

Hope that "Other Me" also got to "Meet" Britney too :)

[EvilEd]

So, let me get this straight.

The only thing you are now complaining about is that we haven't explained the detail of the reasons for locking that thread ?

No, i am complaining that the thread was locked when it contained nothing offensive. If it had turned offencive and was subsiquently locked. I would have no complaint... You have pre-empted the problem which I think is stepping over the line.

[muddyweb]

Your objections are noted.

[landyman Ash]

Ash,

I agree with everything you said there, except....

The post that was deleted from Mikee can be seen as "loss of free speech" but then it can also be seen potential to upset people and create an argument.  Mikee didnt kick off so the rest of us shoudl not too.  

The post wasn't deleted... as I said earlier if it had been, this whole thread would never have happened.  It was just locked.

And once again I say... if this thread isn't free speech, then I don't know what is !

Whoops, sorry Tim!  Must of is-read it!!  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

[landyman Ash]

Your objections are noted.

As I said, the MC is still a baby really, only a few years old and all we can do from this is learn  :D

[EvilEd]

Your objections are noted.

Yeah, I learned that way of telling people to "go away in no uncertain terms" too!

Well, I guess I am the "Nasty" guy here.... Tis weird that you guys complain about how the country is run, then run the site in the same manner... Me, I'll leave this country in ~ 7-8 years time because I stand by what I say, I'll use my right to free speech and my right to walk away if I disagree with it....

It'll be a pity to see Higher tax on 4x4s, no greenlanes and all Pay'n'Play sites shut down... The congestion charge has already grown because of apathy. But if no-one stand up and says "This is not right" then it'll all happen :(

Edit:
Just hope the government doesn't turn round and say "Your objections have been noted"

[muddyweb]

Ed,

On a side note... let me put something to you that is sort-of related to your objections.

Within this thread, you have made written allegations against the people who run the POCUK forums.  Now, in the event that they decide those allegations are libellous they will come to us and request that we remove the relevant posts, or provide records of the posts, etc. etc.

Every post that is made on the site has the potential to cause problems for the site administrators and for the moderators... that is a hassle which the moderators choose to take on for the benefit of the club.

In some cases, we would have to pull the entire thread so that the club doesn't get drawn in between third parties, in other cases, we may have to remove posts or parts thereof.

Whilst I know this isn't directly related to the point you are making, you need to understand that the moderating team have to do what they feel is in the best interests of the club.    This does NOT include editing people's posts to change their meaning, and it doesn't include random or personal actions.

There is no conspiracy, there is as little censorship as is possible and there is certainly no hidden agenda.

[EvilEd]

If any of my posts cause concern, then I will edit them and remove any material that could be contrude as offensive...

As a Member I believe that I should not put the club in that position and I'll change my posts now. But if there is nothing wrong with my posts, then I would not expect them to be locked / edited.

[muddyweb]

Yeah, I learned that way of telling people to "go away in no uncertain terms" too!

Well, I guess I am the "Nasty" guy here.... Tis weird that you guys complain about how the country is run, then run the site in the same manner... Me, I'll leave this country in ~ 7-8 years time because I stand by what I say, I'll use my right to free speech and my right to walk away if I disagree with it....

It'll be a pity to see Higher tax on 4x4s, no greenlanes and all Pay'n'Play sites shut down... The congestion charge has already grown because of apathy. But if no-one stand up and says "This is not right" then it'll all happen :(

Edit:
Just hope the government doesn't turn round and say "Your objections have been noted"

It's not a case of telling you to go away...  just that there isn't much more to say on the subject.  I get the feeling that the only way you would be happy is if we unlocked the original thread.  To be honest, I'm not sure what that would achieve, everyone has already said that they want Mike to stay in the club, and there has certainly be plenty of discussion about the issues here.

You have an absolute right to stand up and say that you don't think it's right... and you have exercised that right.   In this case, it would seem that not everyone agrees with your view.  I don't think you are the 'nasty guy' for doing so...  I've done it plenty of times myself.

[EvilEd]

I have removed any names from my entries on the thread, the only existance now is on Page 1  where it is in the subject on MuddyWebs post and page 3 where MuddyWeb has quoted me.

[TimM]

On one hand I think Mike should stay, on the other I thing Moderation is ESSENTIAL.

Can't we call it a draw and move on?

'Probation' to me suggests that this is temporary, with good behaviour he will be back, lets just sit back and wait......

[Jas278]

I have also had a post " pulled ,dropped" call it what you like,YOUR right it is a shame that you cant stand up and be counted ,but thats life , I support  you, but also understand the web s  decision , A real Sh***er I know, not everybody in any disscusion is going tobe happy  ,especialy if they dont get there own way...................when you leave this country if you are the last one out.....................turn the light off ol   chap.......

[thermidorthelobster]

Well, just to stick my oar in...

I was also surprised that the thread was locked - not at first, but then when I thought about it, I could see that some people might not like it.  So I agree there was room for controversy there.

However, the biggest threat to the survival of mud-club won't be the odd member getting narked here and there - it'll be when the moderators think, why should we put up with this abuse, and decide to stop wasting their time and go and do something more rewarding instead.

I once had a post moderated out for irrelevance (it certainly wasn't abusive / offensive so that's the only reason I can think of).  It mildly irked me, but I thought I'd rather put up with it and accept that occasionally things might happen which I'm not keen on, than make a big fuss and irritate people.

[Trooper30]

Listen to yourselves! Christ you all sound like MP's debating.
Grow up everyone, if you dont want your kids to see or read anything they shouldnt, get some parental controlls on your PC! SORTED!
And as for MC in general yes I agree the site admin about having to be careful about what goes up on the site and they do a good job, but at the cost of getting a reputation of being a PC club. I have noticed other forums mention MC becoming to PC, and if you look at MC a year ago it wasnt that bad as far as PC goes.
So lets call a spade a spade here MC is getting to PC, no has now become PC, and you wonder why its gets quiet somtimes? Why are MC members flocking to other clubs, Ooooo go figure!
And god forgive anyone who says anything bad about landys, especialy if your not an owner, they will hang you for it or send you to Covenrty in most cases I see.
So dont give us "Oooo your bad cause you told a naughty joke, or Noooooo you cant link to that image as some ladies/children/cats/dogs or anyone else may get upset, or my 5yr old might be offended! And we cant mention xmas as it will upset our muslim bros, and all that other ridicules PC stuff that sadly has now woven itself into MC, cause is all rubbish!

Get back into the real world guys, isnt this is a club for mud, not for whining and winging on about saying somthing rude! :shock:
We are all meant to be adults here, and look at us throwing our toys about!
And for gods sake get some parental controll on your puters, or get some parental controls on your kids! :D

Whats the betting Im gonna get a slapped wrist for speaking my mind! :D

.

[thermidorthelobster]

We are all meant to be adults here, and look at us throwing our toys about!

No we're not, that's the point entirely!  It's supposed to be a family club.  If you want a club aimed at over-18s, there are plenty of others - nobody will be upset or annoyed if you leave.

Whats the betting Im gonna get a slapped wrist for speaking my mind! :D

No, but you've just been guilty of doing exactly what you were complaining about, moaning and whingeing!  

I also think you're overstating the PC thing a bit here.  I don't remember any thread saying we can't talk about Christmas in case we upset Muslims.  :?

[muddyweb]

Whats the betting Im gonna get a slapped wrist for speaking my mind! :D

Well, you clearly have missed a lot of the point of this thread if you think that... it has been nothing *but* people speaking their minds.

I think issues of being 'PC' are unrelated to this particular subject, but it is an interesting subject anyway.

You speak about being PC as if it is something inherantly evil.   Whilst I don't agree with some of the over-compensation that goes on, especially in the tabloid press, I also believe that there is nothing wrong with having  a bit of respect for other people's beliefs and convictions.  If something I say is personally offensive or incites negative feelings in others, then I have to take that on board and possibly temper some of the things I say.

I've never been one for using racial stereotypes, for using slang terms for gay people, or people with different backgrounds to me... because I don't think it is necessary or helpful...    does that make me "too PC"...  well, I don't think so.  

Respect is the key issue in what people have chosen to call 'PC'.. and I'll campaign for that.

[Jas278]

AGREED AGREED AGREED...................but are you prepared to underwrite  MC,  for any legal action  brought against them ?..............

[xmob]

I'm not reading this thread any more.

[Cherry Bomb]

ENOUGH ALREADY!

This started as a heated but controlable debate now it's just getting personally insulting.

[Star]

:-k  I don't post here very often my other half is better at that than I am, so I'm not that confident posting now especially on this particular thread BUT I'm going to.

Right, I've typed out several things and deleted them to start again, can't seem to word it right so I'm going for the easy option.....

If you can't think of something nice to say, then maybe it's best not to say anything at all, or if you really have to get it off your chest then maybe do it in private or via email?

[thermidorthelobster]

Isn't it funny how all clubs and forums go through this phase of acrimony...  the shame is that people end up leaving because they don't like the confrontation, and it's usually the non-confrontational people who leave.

[EvilEd]

[Edit] This was written as a reply to trooper, guess it took too long to write :) [/edit]

In fairness, I have given far more than I've got when ribbing the Lardy fratternity :)

So, shall we move onto parenting skills now :) I carefully avoided adding that as it was going to only confuse the issue more... but as that seems to be over with, it'd make a good discussion :)

Personally, the Kids only use the computer if one of us is in the room with them or generally around. I have filters setup on the firewall for all the words I can think of (It's a long list) including "CHAT". I also have content filtering turned on on the Laptops / PCs but most sites do not setup a content rating... If they want to take a laptop up to their room, then they leave the wireless card downstairs (Only mine has an internal card at the moment)

I Also look at the "History" and Temporary Internet files on a fairly regular basis just for piece of mind.

Then they go to school and can go on almost any site they want...  :shock:

They are not banned from Chat sites, or internet mail, but we have a control over it so that we can keep an extra close eye on them if they do...  Sites like this and Birty's they read over my shoulder... They both know what "Swear Words" are, but they know not to repeat them too! They get to say each swear word once to me so that they can ask what it means. It's amazing how many of these words I used to use with no idea what they meant!! (Yes, I have had to look up some!) It also gives them a knowlege to use when others use those words in front of them. Bearing in mind the oldest turns 15 tomorrow, I have a fair idea that she uses some milder swearing when she is with friends etc. But she also knows not do use it in front of me, and hopefully uses it in context when she does use it!

She has only slipped up once that I can remember and that was when I nearly rolled the Jeep... The Girly went off to the loos and I asked my daughter if she was okay, to which she replied "She was Sh**ing herself", then she went bright red and coy! Which was dealt with by saying "I don't think you should let your mum hear you say it that way!". So far (Touch wood), she's never done it again :D