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Offline Topple

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« on: October 04, 2005, 19:45:26 »
Took shorty (200tdi) down to Salisbury to recee the lanes for the treasure hunt later this month.

On the level without a head wind I could easily maintain 60mph towing my 23ft twin axle caravan.

On hills or with a head wind its a different story. - on some of the hills I was down to 45mph

Any suggestions on how to maintain a reasonable speed would be appreciated.

thoughts so far -

big intercooler
tweek the turbo
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Offline muddyweb

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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 20:00:07 »
Check the EGR valve (some would proabably suggest throwing it away ;-) )
You can fiddle with the fuelling in the pump... (see Gords posts before Belgium)
Give everything a good clean and service
Flush the intercooler.

Ultimately, sticking an uprated intercooler in there will make a world of difference and I would say is the best long term solution
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ChrisW

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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2005, 20:13:26 »
EGR valve? On a 200?  :oops:  :wink:

I have had similar on the Discovery, struggling up hill's etc.
I've cleaned and flushed the intercooler but it seems to oil up in the pipes quite quickly again afterwards  :evil:
I have fitted Allisport silicon hose's which feels like they have made some difference, the next step I suppose is a tweak on the fuel pump followed eventually by an intercooler upgrade perhaps, one day  :lol:

Trouble is, all that extra power can go two ways, either better mpg or big grins!  :lol:
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Offline Thrasher

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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2005, 20:14:23 »
Take the 23 foot windbreak off the back?

More seriously - do you have a roofrack etc? Bigger tyres?
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Offline Bob696

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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2005, 20:20:40 »
big intercoolerbig intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler


errrrrrr


sorry
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 20:22:09 »
:idea:

Another 4 cylinders?  :lol:
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Offline Topple

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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2005, 20:33:54 »
Quote from: "Thrasher"
Take the 23 foot windbreak off the back?

More seriously - do you have a roofrack etc? Bigger tyres?


roofrack with lights fitted to it and 265/70 MT tryres
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Paul

Offline Thrasher

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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2005, 20:37:06 »
....well....they AINT going to help....
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Offline Jake

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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2005, 20:37:58 »
Quote from: "Bob696"
big intercoolerbig intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler big intercooler


errrrrrr


sorry


And you said i'd regret it!
(cant wait till next weekend)
 \:D/
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Jake

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Offline v8kenny

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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2005, 23:05:39 »
Sell the engine for around a grand and fit a V8 with LPG kit...................... :wink:
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Offline Landy90IOM

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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2005, 23:09:02 »
Quote from: "Thrasher"
....well....they AINT going to help....


neither is the fact its a defender!
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Offline Porny

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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2005, 10:46:18 »
Check engine timing
Check turbo boost pressure (0.8bar standard)
Check the lift pump (easy check is to see if the fuel filter is filled to the brim when removed... if not full then usually lift pump is getting tired!!)
Clean the intercooler
Check that there isn't diesel in the pipe that goes from the anode on top of the injector pump to the turbo actuator
Ensure that the throttle cable is adjusted correctly
Check the air filter (and fuel filter are ok)
Check tappets/valve clearences.

Depening on mileage, it may be worth having your injectors checked and cleaned.


If all of the above are ok...

Then adjust the injector pump (have got some instructions if needed)
Put the turbo boost pressure up to 1 bar (by shortening the actuator)

And if you still want more...

Fit a bigger intercooler (was very impressed with Allisport after talking to them at L2B!!)

Remove the centre box (large silencer) - replace with straight through pipe.

More still...

Nitrous or Propane (Allisport do a kit)


Just don't jump in with both feet and fit a big intercooler... there's no point in the the engine isn't set-up correctly in the first place.

My 90 when it had a 200TDi would happily pull my 22 foot car trailer with a car on at above legal speeds, and would still pull 55/60 up hill.

That didn't have a big intercooler, but did have the pump tweaked and the turbo boost wound up a bit.


Ian
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Offline Topple

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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2005, 11:01:57 »
Check engine timing - NEW BELT FITTED LAST MONTH
Check turbo boost pressure (0.8bar standard) NEED TO CHECK PRESUMABLY WITH A BOOST GUAGE
Check the lift pump (easy check is to see if the fuel filter is filled to the brim when removed... if not full then usually lift pump is getting tired!!) - NEED TO CHECK
Clean the intercooler  - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !
Check that there isn't diesel in the pipe that goes from the anode on top of the injector pump to the turbo actuator NEED TO CHECK
Ensure that the throttle cable is adjusted correctly NEED TO CHECK
Check the air filter (and fuel filter are ok) - REPLACED 500miles AGO
Check tappets/valve clearences. - DID WHEN DID BELT

Depening on mileage, it may be worth having your injectors checked and cleaned. - 155,000

Thanks for the advice,  I loke the sound of cheap mods to start rather than spending £400 on a new intercooler and pipework. I was going to buy a winch before Whaddon, so I'm now undecided.

I'll try all the 'free' stuff first.
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Offline TimM

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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2005, 11:33:30 »
Quote from: "Porny"

Clean the intercooler


Quote from: "Topple"

Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !


Unfortunately Ian would be meaning the INSIDE of the intercooler aswell - If thats 'a bit muddy' your are in real trouble!

 :lol:
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Offline EvilEd

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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2005, 11:42:14 »
Easy, Buy a Jeep :)

If your intercooler is muddy on the outside, then clean that first.... No point having a blocked intercooler :(

Now clean the inside Someone is bound to tell you if I'm wrong, but I have heard that "Thinned" diseasal is good for cleaning it out (Leave it to soak overnight.. oh, and don;t shove the diesel back in your tank :) )

If you haven't had the injectors cleaned, then I would suggest that as a good next step too...
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Offline woody

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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2005, 11:46:53 »
cheapest thing to do
check the tyre pressures :D
ok its really obvious but you'd be amased at how many people will spend a fortune on mods to go faster and never check the tyre pressures
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Offline woody

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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2005, 11:47:30 »
loose weight :lol:
it works for motorbikes
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Offline ian_s

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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2005, 11:49:35 »
one that i know of is fit lpg to it
tinley tech do a kit for turbo diesels for about £400 plus vat. if you beleive the blurb on it, you get better performance, cleaner emissions and (if your careful) better fuel economy.
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Offline Topple

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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2005, 12:07:45 »
Quote from: "TimM"
Quote from: "Porny"

Clean the intercooler


Quote from: "Topple"

Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !


Unfortunately Ian would be meaning the INSIDE of the intercooler aswell - If thats 'a bit muddy' your are in real trouble!

 :lol:


I know he meant the inside aswel  :wink:
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Offline Budgie

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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2005, 13:15:53 »
Once you've checked, washed (inside & out) & cleaned everything and it's all as it should be, but you still want some more power then have a look at this site for the Dodge Ram. They use the same injector pump as Land Rover and it's a good guide to get you started.

MAKE SURE YOU READ ALL THE WARNINGS AND ALWAYS NOTE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO YOU CAN PUT IT BACK TO STANDARD IF IT DOESN'T WORK!
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Offline Topple

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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2005, 13:18:19 »
Quote from: "Budgie"
Once you've checked, washed (inside & out) & cleaned everything and it's all as it should be, but you still want some more power then have a look at this site for the Dodge Ram. They use the same injector pump as Land Rover and it's a good guide to get you started.

MAKE SURE YOU READ ALL THE WARNINGS AND ALWAYS NOTE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO YOU CAN PUT IT BACK TO STANDARD IF IT DOESN'T WORK!


Thanks - found that site late last night seems straightforward enough.
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Offline Budgie

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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2005, 13:27:10 »
We (read "me" with Neil hovering over my sholder and supping a beer :roll:) did the diaphram on Gords Disco in the campsite in Belgium. It took about 5 mins to do.  :wink:

I would start with the diaphram, as it's the easiest to do, and you'll be suprised at the difference. Only turn yours to about 90 degrees MAX with the standard intercooler, any more than that and your just waisting fuel.  :wink:
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Offline Porny

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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2005, 18:05:16 »
Quote
Check engine timing - NEW BELT FITTED LAST MONTH

Please don't take this as an insult if you fitted it yourself, but was it done properly.... the cam belt on my brothers Disco had been done by a 'Land Rover specialist' just before he bought it... yet it was quite a way out.  Probably becasue it had been done by eye, not using all the pins!!

Quote
Check turbo boost pressure (0.8bar standard) NEED TO CHECK PRESUMABLY WITH A BOOST GUAGE

Yep... you really need one that reads at least 1.5bar... TIM ones are the cheapest (I can get these a bit cheaper if needed, and check it's correctly calibrated)...
 
Quote
Clean the intercooler - IT IS A BIT MUDDY !

As mentioned in later posts, I did mean inside and out.  I usually use paraffin, brake cleaner or something similar.  Just make sure you give it a good shake and that it's dry when you refit it.  Easist way to start the engine with the silicone pipe that goes from the intercooler to inlet manifold disconnected... this will blow any residue out.

Quote
Check that there isn't diesel in the pipe that goes from the anode on top of the injector pump to the turbo actuator NEED TO CHECK

Easy check to see whether you diaghram in the injector pump has a split in it, or is leaking slightly.

Quote
Ensure that the throttle cable is adjusted correctly NEED TO CHECK

This is quite a common thing that gets overlooked!!

Quote
Depening on mileage, it may be worth having your injectors checked and cleaned. - 155,000

Once you've checked all the 'free stuff' this would be my next port of call.


Quote
would start with the diaphram, as it's the easiest to do, and you'll be suprised at the difference. Only turn yours to about 90 degrees MAX with the standard intercooler, any more than that and your just waisting fuel.


Why???  Depends how the rest of the pump is set up.... on my 90" this was set to max point, and yet didn't give out clouds of smoke (which would be unburnt fuel)

Also, don't fall into the trap of tweaking the mods and testing it by just reving it at standstill.  Your turbo will only boost fully under load... i.e. when your driving it.

My 90" did give a bit of a cloud if your reved it hard whislt stationary (but still passed MOT's) but when driving all you got was a light haze.

The real thing you need to worry about is EGT... but without changing overall max fueling you should be safe :wink:


Ian
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Offline Budgie

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« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2005, 18:52:47 »
Quote from: "Porny"
Why???  Depends how the rest of the pump is set up.... on my 90" this was set to max point, and yet didn't give out clouds of smoke (which would be unburnt fuel)

Also, don't fall into the trap of tweaking the mods and testing it by just reving it at standstill.  Your turbo will only boost fully under load... i.e. when your driving it.

I'm no Diesel engine guru I just go on what I've been told over there years and through tinkering myself. The info I was given was what I said above and I can't see the reason to go to full fuel if it's not needed! :?  
Even with the full width intercooler mine is still only set to about 160 degrees (5 o'clock) as it smokes too much when set to full fuel (180 degrees). Maybe the injector pumps have a different setup for the 200/300 TDi Defender than for the Disco.  :-k

I agree the vehicle must be driven to see the effect of any alterations, you wouldn't notice any difference (apart from the smoke) at a standstill!  :wink:
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Offline Topple

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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2005, 20:57:02 »
Well I got impatient, i've adjusted the diaphragm by 90 degrees, with no noticable smoke and bags more performance.

I'll take the intercooler out at the weekend and give it a good clean, I'll also look at the other tweeks to the pump.


Quote
Yep... you really need one that reads at least 1.5bar... TIM ones are the cheapest (I can get these a bit cheaper if needed, and check it's correctly calibrated)...


found them for just under £30, can you let me know what you can get and the cost, alternativelty I'll pop over to demon tweeks and get one.
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Offline Porny

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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2005, 22:46:49 »
Quote
found them for just under £30, can you let me know what you can get and the cost, alternativelty I'll pop over to demon tweeks and get one.


Think they work out about the same price..... although mine would be calibrated.
Though would need to check on price as it may have changed.... if your in a rush - Demon Tweeks or do a search on google.  There are quite a few places cheaper than Demon.


Ian
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Offline TimM

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« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2005, 09:23:53 »
Quote from: "Porny"
Think they work out about the same price..... although mine would be calibrated.


I just bought mine from an 'over the counter' supplier, what have I missed on the calibration front?

 :?:
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Offline Porny

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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2005, 10:46:41 »
Quote
I just bought mine from an 'over the counter' supplier, what have I missed on the calibration front?


Well I brought one that was 0.75 bar out....
When I contacted the suppliers, they had no way of testing them!!!

In saying that, other's I've has have been 100% spot on.

If you want, I could check yours??


Ian
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Offline TimM

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« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2005, 11:42:43 »
Thanks Ian,

If mine is 0.75bar out, then my turbo is not working at all!!  :lol:

I would suspect it's probably about right, but I might take you up on your offer next time I'm across your way (I assume meeting you at an event would be no good).

I bought a TIM guage, as it saved having to write my name on it afterwards  :lol:
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Offline Topple

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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2005, 20:17:45 »
Done the run to Salisbury towing the caravan, used about the same amount of diesel so no apparent downside there. Shorty now doesn't struggle up hills and is happy maintaining 60 on the motorway, she does loose a bit of momentum up steep hills but no where near as much as before

Thanks Ian (Porny) for the advise.
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