Glowplugs. GGRRRR!!

[aog]

Hi All,

Changed the glow plugs on Shirleys Disco to fix the bad cold starting in the freezing cold we have had.

I was cranking and cranking sometimes till the battery went flat and it would not go. In fact it jump started first turn!!

I fitted 4 new plugs. The old one all appeared to be dead, well at least no reading on my test meter unless I was testing it wrong.......

All new ones fitted, though one plug end where the small nut and wire is, seems slightly "wiggly" Would this cause a problem????

Anyway, still seems a sod to start, so I am none the wiser. I will take the new one out to test them.

Any ideas if a "wiggly end" would stop it from starting?

I was assuming with nice new glow plugs it would start just as well cold as it does when hot, or am I missing the point?????!!!!

It has always been hard to start when freezing, though this year seems worse than last, hence me changing the glow plugs.

They were only £20 of ebay, so maybe that's my problem....

Help!! I don't want to kill the battery or starter trying to get it going!!!!

[petergalileo]

You are waiting for your glow plug warning light to go out before starting arnt you ? if you arent that will definately kill your battery !

Turn on your headlights, turn on the ignition, lights should dim a little while the glow plug light is on then the lights should get brighter when it goes off.  This generally checks all glowplugs.

Other things that cause poor starting other than glowplug faults is

Fuel waxing up as it is cold
very slight air leak in the fuel line,  Lots of TDI owners on here are suffering the fuel waxing problem at the moment.

[drmike]

What TDI is it?

My 200 TDI glow plugs were not connected when I bought the 90 but it always started on the button. Then I thought I really should get the plugs working and did so ready for the colder weather. After that it wasn't such a great starter and eventually I flattened the battery what with starting and running about in the dark with the lights on.

I have since disconnected the glow plugs and it starts just as well as before when theyw orked. So, I wonder if your porblem has anything to do with the glow plugs!

I suspect I need a bigger alternator but for the moment all is well and its starts OK.

Mike

[muddyjames]

My disco used to be exactly the same and wouldnot start when a small amount of frost had come over night and then as soon as I get the jump leads out and put it next to the disco it started 1st time!

I spent 2 hours changing the glow plugs and even now after the light goes out on a really cold morning the engine turns over a couple of times and then fires up.

I am thinking about getting a new battery and see what happens. How old is your battery? Batteries do loose their efficiency over time and escpecially in cold weather.

I am guessing with regards to fuel waxing as somebody mentioned if you were to have a full tank of diesel it would take longer to wax over?

[GADGETP38]

direct injection engines should fire up pretty easily apparently without glow plugs.   :roll:

I had a similar prob with mine at the start and air was getting in the system from the leak off rails.

Also check your lift pump.  Fuel may be draining back overnight and thus a [!Expletive Deleted!] to start.  Replace if necessary.

[aog]

direct injection engines should fire up pretty easily apparently without glow plugs.   :roll:

I had a similar prob with mine at the start and air was getting in the system from the leak off rails.

Also check your lift pump.  Fuel may be draining back overnight and thus a !Expletive Deleted! to start.  Replace if necessary.

Well, it is a new battery, well last year anyway, and a decent one at that!
I thought that a direct injection would fire quick too......

Leak off rails? Lift pump? It's all electronic on this model, fly by wire and all that!!

[aog]

My disco used to be exactly the same and wouldnot start when a small amount of frost had come over night and then as soon as I get the jump leads out and put it next to the disco it started 1st time!

I spent 2 hours changing the glow plugs and even now after the light goes out on a really cold morning the engine turns over a couple of times and then fires up.

I am thinking about getting a new battery and see what happens. How old is your battery? Batteries do loose their efficiency over time and escpecially in cold weather.

I am guessing with regards to fuel waxing as somebody mentioned if you were to have a full tank of diesel it would take longer to wax over?

Mine seemed fine with jump leads when I flattened it trying to start it! First turn it was away, only after about 5 seconds of the jump leads being on!!
With new plugs, it still turns over a fair bit before starting even when no frost. Though you can leave it all day at work from 7 till 3.30 and it starts a treat - chug chug brooom!!
Just first thing in the morning it is reluctant.......
I thought for the fuel to wax it had to be like minus 15 or suchlike at least, and modern fuels had a anti waxing agent?????

[muddyjames]

direct injection engines should fire up pretty easily apparently without glow plugs.   :roll:

I had a similar prob with mine at the start and air was getting in the system from the leak off rails.

Also check your lift pump.  Fuel may be draining back overnight and thus a !Expletive Deleted! to start.  Replace if necessary.

Mine had a new lift pump replaced before I bought it and it was done under a year ago. I have the reciept for it!

[GADGETP38]

direct injection engines should fire up pretty easily apparently without glow plugs.   :roll:

I had a similar prob with mine at the start and air was getting in the system from the leak off rails.

Also check your lift pump.  Fuel may be draining back overnight and thus a !Expletive Deleted! to start.  Replace if necessary.

Well, it is a new battery, well last year anyway, and a decent one at that!
I thought that a direct injection would fire quick too......

Leak off rails? Lift pump? It's all electronic on this model, fly by wire and all that!!

Yes but still has both of those ; the pump gets the diesel to the engine from the tank and the leak offs are the return for unused fuel. (I think)  :roll:

[drmike]

I suppose it's a dumb question but air can get in and cause a problem via teh leak off rail? I believe the banjo connections for this are prone to coming loose - certainly I checked mine and they were really not quite tight enough and a friend had one fall off!

Mike

[GADGETP38]

I suppose it's a dumb question but air can get in and cause a problem via teh leak off rail? I believe the banjo connections for this are prone to coming loose - certainly I checked mine and they were really not quite tight enough and a friend had one fall off!

Mike

and also the small pipes that link the top of the injectors can split.

[muddyjames]

have you tried this link http://members.mud-club.com/library/?articleid=9 that a MC member put about adjusting the fuel pump or something. I am not technicaly minded. I just read what to do and do it!

It may sort out your cold starting. I may give it ago sometime.

[GADGETP38]

have you tried this link http://members.mud-club.com/library/?articleid=9 that a MC member put about adjusting the fuel pump or something. I am not technicaly minded. I just read what to do and do it!

It may sort out your cold starting. I may give it ago sometime.

Mark with some tipex or something where the current pump timing is set so when you muff it up you know where to put it back too.  

[aog]

have you tried this link http://members.mud-club.com/library/?articleid=9 that a MC member put about adjusting the fuel pump or something. I am not technicaly minded. I just read what to do and do it!

It may sort out your cold starting. I may give it ago sometime.

Mark with some tipex or something where the current pump timing is set so when you muff it up you know where to put it back too.  

HHMMMM!!!! I had heard about the timing tweak, but to be honest I am reluctant to fiddle with it for the time being in case i mess it up!!

I will try to have a look at the fuel lift pump (?) etc.

BTW, there is a audable "BZZZZT" buzzing noise when the ignition is on, like a electric toothbrush for want of a better description.....
What's that???

[waveydavey]

That does sound like a spinning over problem or fuel supply rather than a engine problem.

You have not mentioned how it runs; if it runs well and gives the power when going I would not rush to tweak timing or anything.

An air leak on the fuel supply from the tank is quite feasible; once the engine is going the pump is going a lot faster and will keep up, if it's the spill rail it would not make much difference except possibly costing you fuel.

It sounds like a 300tdi, does that have a manual priming lever on the fuel lift pump as on the 200? If it has it may be worth popping the bonnet in the morning and manually operating it. If you shift a lot of fuel and it then starts you have found the problem, if it's still soild witha  tight system then you know it's not the problem.

[way2deep]

have you tried a direct live feed straight to the glow plugs ,on my rangie the thingy??that is suppose to send the current thru to them packed up,so they were not getting any power to them.i have over ridden this bit now and have a master switch to send power thru.i turn my ignition on then wait about 10 seconds after the light on the dash goes out

[aog]

That does sound like a spinning over problem or fuel supply rather than a engine problem.

You have not mentioned how it runs; if it runs well and gives the power when going I would not rush to tweak timing or anything.

It sounds like a 300tdi, does that have a manual priming lever on the fuel lift pump as on the 200? If it has it may be worth popping the bonnet in the morning and manually operating it. If you shift a lot of fuel and it then starts you have found the problem, if it's still soild witha  tight system then you know it's not the problem.

The noise inst the starter. It's just when you turn the ignition on, rather like a relay or suchlike making the noise. It always has done though AFAIR
As for running, well it's a bit slow, but it is a auto, it seems ok, but I was used to a V8 Disco, so it's about 50bhp anyway!!
I Will have a look for the fuel lift pump and give that a go.

I have noticed, as part of a experiment, that if I turn on thre headlights for about 10-30 secs before turning the glowplugs on, it starts much easier!!???

Go figure???

[aog]

have you tried a direct live feed straight to the glow plugs ,on my rangie the thingy??that is suppose to send the current thru to them packed up,so they were not getting any power to them.i have over ridden this bit now and have a master switch to send power thru.i turn my ignition on then wait about 10 seconds after the light on the dash goes out

No, I have not tried that one. Good point to try though

[muddyjames]

As for running, well it's a bit slow, but it is a auto, it seems ok, but I was used to a V8 Disco, so it's about 50bhp anyway!!
I Will have a look for the fuel lift pump and give that a go.

I have noticed, as part of a experiment, that if I turn on thre headlights for about 10-30 secs before turning the glowplugs on, it starts much easier!!???

Go figure???

A word of warning. If it is slow top speed about 75mph? It could be the alternator pulley not done up tight enough. Mine was really struggling up hills and wouldnt go above 75 when I first bought it and 200 miles after I bought it in the morning it chucked out plumes of white smoke and wouldnt rev over 1400rpm until the engine was hot. It was all done to the alternator pulley bolt not done up tight enough and making the pulley wobble meaning the crank shaft osilated slightly which in turn meant the timing was slightly out. the more I drove it the more it went worse and I limped it to my detination in wales. So 200miles after I bought it, it went on a low loader! I was lucky and the guy it went to near Banbury and would recomend everytime to anyone rebuilt the end of the crank shaft with instant metal or similar stuff.

inside the pulley the key way had worn a little square in the metal from where it went back and forth. since then my disco was easier to start and new glow plugs even easier. Stil not fab but it starts. I think I need a new battery. But check your alternator pulley bolt. It has to be done up to a stupidly high torque. Something like an 8ft scaf bar on the end of the socket with engine in gear to do up tight enough. An air gun is not tight enough.

As to your light question. Turning the lights on warms the battery up slightly from the current flowing through it and batteries always work better in warm air or just being warm so turning the lights on just warms it enough to give it more life to start the disco.

If you want anymore info on my pulley pm me or i can pass on the details to the mechanic who did it. heres his web site neway for you all. http://north-oxon-4x4.co.uk/index.html
He is very genuine and knows his stuff. Great guy and wont rip you off. a top bloke.

[muddyweb]

James... you sure you don't mean the timing belt pulley or tensioner ?

The alternator belt shouldn't have any effect on the way the engine runs.

[muddyjames]

it was the big pulley right at the bottom of the engine just behind the radiator which the belt for the alternator and everything else goes round. It also runs the air con belt too.

It was because the that pulley had become loose that it meant the crank shaft wasnt being held in place properly so it osilated and in turn the timing belt slowly became loose because at the top of its osilation the belt wasnt tight enough so became loose for a split second and as it slowly slipped round the the timing belt the timing was slowly going out.

[muddysteve]

That does sound like a spinning over problem or fuel supply rather than a engine problem.

You have not mentioned how it runs; if it runs well and gives the power when going I would not rush to tweak timing or anything.

It sounds like a 300tdi, does that have a manual priming lever on the fuel lift pump as on the 200? If it has it may be worth popping the bonnet in the morning and manually operating it. If you shift a lot of fuel and it then starts you have found the problem, if it's still soild witha  tight system then you know it's not the problem.

The noise inst the starter. It's just when you turn the ignition on, rather like a relay or suchlike making the noise. It always has done though AFAIR
As for running, well it's a bit slow, but it is a auto, it seems ok, but I was used to a V8 Disco, so it's about 50bhp anyway!!
I Will have a look for the fuel lift pump and give that a go.

I have noticed, as part of a experiment, that if I turn on thre headlights for about 10-30 secs before turning the glowplugs on, it starts much easier!!???

Go figure???

You need a new battery then, turning the lights on will "warm" the battery up go it will give a bigger push when you start it.

Mine wasnt a good starter but now i run 2 70ah batteries paralelled up it starts a treat with or without the glow plugs

Steve

[drmike]

Blimey muddyjames you were lucky to get away with that without big bucks unless I'm being naive. Sounds like your mechanic was a good 'un.

Mike

[muddyjames]

I was VERY lucky. I just so happened to be on a canal voluntary thing so the rac would tow me to a garage well low loader the car to a garage and as there are so many land rover peeps on my canal stuff they knew the mechanic and recomended him and he wasnt very busy. he even went to his yard on a sunday to meet the rac chap. he really was fab. he has been in a few magazines as well with wierd machines. he has forward cntrols based on a defender and all sorts. he is good for 2nd hand parts too.