Help or advice on clutch

[Wanderer]

HI All,
First the history.

While laning last weekend the clutch got a bit sticky. I topped up with fluid and it seemed fine.
This weekend  it gradually got worse while towing the caravan.
By the time I got on site it was difficult to change gear.
Decided to go out Sat am and it got to the point where I had to double the clutch to get into any gears and also to select first I had to stop and stop the engine. Select first gear and start the engine with the clutch depressed.

Back on site there was hardly any pedal bar for the last inch or two.
It would not select a gear after starting the engine while in Neutral.

It would however start in gear with the clutch down and pull away.

We bled the clutch and it seemed no different although occasionally we could get a gear from Neutral with the clutch. Most times it wouldn't go into gear.

This morning/afternoon I limped home with occasionally having to stop the engine at lights, select 1st gear, then start the engine.

I am praying it's not the forks that have corroded on their pivot point.

I am hoping it is something simpler.
Could it be the slave cylinder seals. No sign of any leakage. Could the fluid pass by the seals and get back into the system again?

Could it be the dampers (It's a 200tdi)

What tests can you do to check everything?
Is there an inspection "window" where you could see the forks?
If it is them can they be changed without removing the gearbox entirely?

Any advise would be helpful.

Ta.
Ed

[Frankie-Boy]

Ed,

Mine did exactly the same a few months ago, your description of events is identical to mine, and I'm sorry to say that your fears are probably the truth.

I replaced the complete clutch including the fork and the fork bearing.

The clutch cover was nearly worn through by the release bearing running round it, the fork was virtually non existent where it rested on it's pivot bearing, you could actually see through the cup in places.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, I hope it is something different, but...

[muddyweb]

I reckon Frank is right.   If it was hydraulic, you would be seeing a drop in fluid level, and would likely be getting fluid leaking from the bellhousing drain plug hole.

The box and engine need to be separated to get to it all.

 :(

[Wanderer]

Hi Frank, Tim,
You ask these things hoping for a different answer.
We removed the wading plug and nothing in the bell housing at all.
I had thought that the intermittent  problem might be the fork having worn through.

Someone a while back mentioned a rattling noise from the gearbox clutch area and mine has been doing that for some time. IN netral with the clutch up it rattled. With the clutch down it stopped. That may have been the fork starting to go.

I recall reading somewhere that the fork can fail again (sometimes within a year or so) any tips on stopping that happening.

Don't buy a pattern part?
Or does it affect the LR genuine part?

Any tips for dropping the box?
I've done lots of clutches on smaller vehicles where you can lie underneath and lower the box, roll it over and "drop" it on the floor. Then drag it out or just move it to one side.

Is it easier by splitting the transfer box away first? Does it become a job that can be done without a cradle and/or a four poster?

Or Ramps and or a large trolley jack and axle stands?

So many questions folks!

Ed

[Wanderer]

Removed the damper out of the equation and things were the same as before,
Got the clutch and forks today. Borg and Beck unit.

Is it worth modifying the clutch arm?

I have the use of a full MOT workshop after they close on Saturday until Sunday night. It should go well.

Ed

[Wanderer]

A lesson learnt.

Don't just remove the wading plug and check for leaks on the slave cylinder.

I could have saved some heartache (for now) by removing the slave cylinder and checking it for fluid leakage.

On the good side. The clutch friction plate was down near the rivets and the pressure plate fingers were weak on one side.
So we fitted new clutch, forks and also the pivot ball.
Shame it comes as a complete unit instead of a screw in replacement ball.

I managed to get a local 4x4 "shop" to open up on Sunday morning to supply me with a new slave cylinder but he gave us a V8 one which has a different thread on the clutch pipe between the damper and slave cylinder.

We tried butchering the existing pipe with another fitting but then found the size of pipe didn't fit our pipe flaring tools. I think the new pipe is metric and our flaring tool ends that were there were imperial.

Why do LR do so many mix and matches of imperial and metric?
Rhetorical question!

Thanks to Bev and Paul for their assistance.
I'd never have managed without them.
Paul may have some pics somewhere....

Ed

[Paul]

Paul may have some pics somewhere....

I'll post a link when I've uploaded them.

[Paul]

Photo's of the Clutch change on Ed's Discovery:

http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/paul/gallery/Clutch%20Fitting

[Andy.]

Heh Ed did'nt realise you had a detachable tow bar fitted from Scorpion?

And that rear diff guard looks too shiny  :?:

[hobbit]

Until recently the whole back axle/suspension was clean and shiney, and dare I say .....  Painted!  


Kev

[Wanderer]

Another memo.
Must remember to get the missing brake pipe clip replaced on the axle.

You're right Andy it's a Scorpion detatchable.
I couldn't hack it ploughing everywhere I went with the pukka towbar.

Ed

[hobbit]

I've seen packs of clips down our fav spares place ed had to get some nuts/bolts etc to re-stock, must take a closer look next visit

Are you sure you dont want to borrow the l/w for a runabout?   :twisted:

kev

[hobbit]

Hey ed found another garage to do some work for us, very cheap, all the latest equipment, he would have done the clutch for a tenner  :lol:
Also good at chassis repairs
Kev

[Paul]

He's not heard of Health & Safety.. :shock:  :lol: