The famous vibration after doing a lift?

[nickW]

i have recent done a 2" lift to my v8 disco, before the lift i used to get a bit of a clunk out of the drive system when take you up drive, (i don't if this is linked)

anyway when i first did the the lift about 500miles ago there was a little bit of vibration at certain speeds, but this morning it got a lot worse it vibrates quite badly at 40-50mph this happens more in lower gears, im going to get under it later to have look whats wrong, am i right in thinking it could be the UJ's on there way out or should i be looking some where else

[burgerman]

This is only my experience , so i will be corrected,   But i had similar symptoms a short while ago, in my case it turned out to be the front prop,  The slider was seized and one of the u/joints after cleaning had some ( not massive) amounts of play,  i picked up a used prop as i could not get my slider to slide any more, and replaced both u/j"s    And in my case it worked for me,  Hope this helps??

[nickW]

how can you tell if the slider isn't working, i thought it might of been uj's because of the knocking noise i was getting before

[Richie_EB4]

i have recent done a 2" lift to my v8 disco, before the lift i used to get a bit of a clunk out of the drive system when take you up drive, (i don't if this is linked)

anyway when i first did the the lift about 500miles ago there was a little bit of vibration at certain speeds, but this morning it got a lot worse it vibrates quite badly at 40-50mph this happens more in lower gears, im going to get under it later to have look whats wrong, am i right in thinking it could be the UJ's on there way out or should i be looking some where else

Sounds like your prop/uj's..........some guys have no probs when lifting them (me on both of mine) but some have problems........may need to look at a wide yoke prop or the double cardon prop.
But i would try and replace the uj's first and give it a good greasing first.

[nickW]

well even before the lift the was a slight clunk when you take up drive as if the UJ's were on the way out

[Budgie]

If you've got a 200 Series with the LT77 gearbox then these tend to ware the gearbox mainshaft where it fits into the drive gear on the transfer box. This is due to the lack of oil getting to the shafts and the 'clunk' when taking up drive is normally heard from around the handbrake area.
Early 300's also suffered from this but there was a modification to the input gear that solved the problem around 1995.

If you're getting a vibration through the steering then the common cause is the front propshaft U/Js. You need to get under there and grab each U/J and give it a good shake. If there is any movement then it needs replacing.
The only way to check the centre spline on the propshaft is to remove the shaft at one end and see if it works.

Other causes of the vibration:

Swivel housing pre-load needs tightening - jack the front wheel, grab the tyre at the 6 & 12 o'clock position and try to move it in & out. If you have a spare person then get them to look at the swivel housing seal, if they can see movement or you can feel movement the take a couple of shims out from under the top pin. Refer to the manual for the correct pressure using a spring scale.  

Wheel bearings - same check as for the swivel but hold the tyre at 3 & 9 o'clock.

Worn suspension bushes. Panhard rod is the most common one to go.

Track Rod ends.

Exessive play in the steering box or drop arm balljoint.

Steering damper needs replacing.

Wide yoke propshafts don't stop the vibrations set up by a suspension lift and this is normally only caused when you fit a set of caster correction radius arms. The radius arms alter the angle that front propshaft works at, the diff end is nearly straight and at transfer box end is nearly binding. This sets up a 'pulsing' in the propshaft which is normally cancelled out by both U/Js working at the same angle on a standard setup. The only way to stop this is to fit a Double Cardan propshaft which lessens the angle the top U/Js are working at. The wide yoke propshafts do have more movement but still suffer from the 'pulsing' problems.    

Have fun!  :D

[nickW]

i thought it might be UJ's as the vibrations seem alot worse at certain speed as if the the uj was alright at slow rotations, and at high rotataion ie above 50mph the centrifugal force probably stopped it moving around so much, but at 40-50 its spinning slow enough to through its self alover the place, its only a thought though?

also the vibration doesn't seem to come throught the steering more through the body and chassis of the truck, maybe the rear

[Budgie]

In that case then check the propshafts first, remember to chock the wheels & release handbrake before you do the rear one!  

Is it a 200 or 300 Disco you've got?

[nickW]

yeah its a 200 what am i looking for on the propshaft

[Budgie]

All you have to do is grab the prop near the U/J and try to move the prop in all directions (except round as there will be some rotation due to play in other parts of the drivetrain). If you feel any movement like a slight knocking in the joint then it's best to replace it. You can pump grease into it as a short-term fix if you can't do it right away.  

Sometimes you can see the movement if you look close at the yokes.

As you have a 200 then you've got the LT77 gearbox which does suffer from a 'clunk' when taking up drive, as I said about above. If yours is suffering from this, and provided it's not too bad, then you can change the transfer box input gear for the later mod'ed one that has oil holes in it. This can lessen the play between the gearbox mainshaft & the input gear.

Another place that these 'clunk' on take-up is the axle drive flanges where the halfshaft meets the hub, these are easy to replace and quite cheap as well.  

[nickW]

so are props and UJ's quite easy to change, im not worried about working on cars as i have done for years but i have never changed a prop or UJ

[stratie]

Nic mate, the prop is an easy job  
Unlike fitting a lift kit  :lol:

[nickW]

cheers for all the help budgie i managed to make it home just, it was the swivel pin preload you colud move the wheel about 5-8mm.

so how difficult is it the check the swivel pin preload, also the swivel its self seems pretty scratched and pitted on that side is it worth changing the swivel as well

[Budgie]

If you feel it's bad enough then I would change it. Although it's not just the ball, you'll also need a new swivel seal, seal retaining plate, top & bottom bearings, maybe some new shims and a swivel-to-axle gasket.

To alter the pre-load:
Remove road wheel.
Remove the track-rod balljoint from the side you're working on so the swivel will pivert freely on the pins.
On top of the swivel you will see two bolts that also hold the flexy brake pipes. Undo & remove both bolts and you can lift the pin out. You will get some oil leaking from the swivel seal so remember to refill to the correct level when finished!
Under the pin there should be some thin shims (if there aren't any shims then new bearings will be required and you may as well do the whole thing!) Remove one of the shims and replace the pin & one bolt, tighten the bolt and check the play. If you have a spring ballance then there is a set poundage that is should take to rotate the swivel, I don't have my books with me so you'll have to look it up. Also I think the poundage in the haynes manual is with the swivel seal removed!

If the poundage is correct then replace the other bolt and the brake flexy plate and refill the swivel housing with EP90 to the correct level.

That should be you.  

Feel free to jump in if i've forgottedn anything folks, I'm doing this off the top of my head!  :D

[nickW]

on the way home there was a noise like a dry bearing sort of squealy and scratchy and if i drove the truck over 35mph there was loads of vibration, with the wheel jacked up there is quite a lot of movement, i am bit worried that by driving the car the 30 miles home ive probably done  more damage due to the amount of play in it, its probebly worth changing the ball as it looks like it may well be on its way out as the one on the opposite side has no marks on it.

on the a plus side the prop and UJ's seem alright

is there any way of setting the preload with out a spring balance, also where can you buy them from, the last place i remember seeing one of those was science lessons at school

[Budgie]

From your description I would check the wheel bearing on that side before you start ordering the swivel housing parts!  :?

This will also cause movement, vibration and the type of noise you describe. Where as you don't normally get any noise from the swivel pins.

Wheel off.
Pull the cover off the centre of the drive flange.
Remove circlip and spacers from the end of the halfshaft.
Undo the drive flange bolts and remove the flange.
With the flange removed, try & move the brake disc and see if you can see any play in the wheel bearings. If there is, and they look dry, then this will be your problem.
Remove the brake pads and the two caliper securing bolts and pull the caliper clear of the disc.
Behind the drive flange you'll see a large nut with a lock washer behind it.
Tap back the locking washer from the nut and undo the nut. (If you've not got a box spanner to do this then hammer & chisle will have to do!)
Remove the locking washer to reveal a second nut. This should be finger tight and easy to remove.
Now you can pull the hub & brake disc off in one go.
Check for scoring on the stub axle bearing surfaces!
The outer bearings will fall out but you will have to press or punch the out part of the bearing free. The rear bearings will need the rear hub seal removing before they will come out.

"Rebuild is the reverse of............." But make sure you know which way round the rear hub seal goes in otherwise it will leak!

When you've got it back together and the hub on the stub axle (making sure there is plenty of grease in & around the wheel bearings!) put the first nut on and tighten to seat the bearings, then back off quater to half a turn to allow some play. Then put on the locking washer (new one is best) then the second nut. Fully tighten the second (lock) nut before bending the locking washer. Now check that the hub spins freely with no noticable play.
If all if fine then put the rest back together.  

You can get all the parts you need from places like Paddocks, DLS or John Craddocks if you don't have any local Land Rover spares places. I would start with Paddocks as they tend to be cheaper than some of the others but it's worth shopping around.  

[nickW]

cheers budgie if it wasn't for people like you and this website i don't know where i would be, when i rocked the wheel it only rocked 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock, it didn't move 3 to 9 also it looks like the swivel may have been leaking, dare i say it but it may have leaked all out and  run completely dry

also for parts im quite lucky to work just round the corner from frogs island 4x4

[Budgie]

One other thing: It may be worth you getting a CD ROM from Land Rover, Part Number LHP3

Description taken from Dingocroft's site who sell it for £14.95.  

CD collection of manuals for Land Rover Discovery 1989 to 1994. Contains the following manuals;
Parts manual RTC9947FAL 1989 to 1994.
Workshop manualSJR900ENWM 1989 to 1994.
Owners handbook SJR900ENHB90 1990 model year.

[nickW]

ive got a haynes manual for the car, but it makes it simpler if someone talks you through it as you did

[Budgie]

I could nearly write my own manual with all the stuff I've got in my head!!  :lol:

Let us know how it goes and what you find.  

[nickW]

do you reckon as its only rocking 6 to 12 and not 3 to 9 that the bearing could be alright and the noise was coming from the cv joint running dry

[nickW]

another question, do series 1 j reg v8i disco's have abs

[Budgie]

Like I said earlier, if you get someone to look at the seal around the back of housing while you move the wheel then if it's the swivel pin pre-load they will see movement. If they don't see any movement then it could still be the wheel bearings.

As for ABS, if you've got it then there will be a large metal block with pipes coming out of it on top of the passenger side inner wing, near the air filter. I don't know anything about ABS cos I've never had a vehicle with it fitted so can't say much more than that.  

[nickW]

UPDATE:

right ok i took off the wheel and when you try and move things from the disc the movement is down to about 3mm,

i had a look at the wheel bearing and its not run dry but i think its probably knackered as there is move ment in it heres a pic


i didn't manage to get to look at the swivel shims as one of the bolts was a bit stuborn but it will get it undone tonight,

when you rock the the hub you can see the housing moving about the swivel, it seems to rock from the bottom of the swivel, also the swivel its self looks in pretty bad shape, pitted and scratched



so heres a few question

should i replace the swivel,

what parts should i pick up from frogs island ( what am i going to need to replace)

[Budgie]

You have one of those wheel bearings where they put a second hub seal on the outside so you can't see the condition of the bearings, I've never worked out why they do that as I can't see it would seal on anything.  :?

So, you can see movement from the wheel bearing so that needs to be tightened, as you're taking the thing apart anyway then a good dose of grease in the bearing can only do good and you shouldn't need any new parts for this except for a new drive flange gasket & lock washer.

Looking at the swivel then Yes,  I think get a new one on there. That one's not going to hold much new EP90 when you fill it again as the seal is more than likely trashed and the parts you need I've listed further up in this thread.  

When you've got it all apart, have a goot look at the CV joint bearings for signs of ware. If there are any pits or marks on them then best replace it while it's all in bits anyway. This just saves you having to do the job again later.  

Anything you're not sure about then Frogs Island will be able to advise you.

[nickW]

on the bearing, you can see movement where the red line is

[nickW]

right its all apart now, im gonig to change the swivel, there were still some shims at the top of the pin, im going to change the bottom swivel bearing although i think its alright, the whell bearing are alright,

it came apart easier than i thought, cheers for the instructions budgie

[Budgie]

No Problem Nick.  :D

It's always best to put new bearings in, it often saves you from doing the job twice!!  

[nickW]

good point, i will keep the old ones just incase i need to change the wheel one day when nowhere is open or i am in the middle of nowhere

[Range Rover Blues]

I used to get a droning on the front caused by the 2 inch lift, well before I fitted QT arms.  It didn't do it under power, or on overrun but if you tried to hold the speed under gentle throttle it droned.  The wera in the front drivetrain allows the backlash that contributes to the noise which is why it's worse on some cars than others, mine was worse.  I suspect with the clonking that yours is too.

I acheived a noticeable improvement by rotating the 2 halves of the front prop relative to one-another, by lining up the 2 UJs you can take out some of the pulsing that has been discussed to death many times.  The 2 UJs look out of phase on a standard prop but this is correct for a standard car, as soon as you lift it this is not the case.

So I'd say try that first, it costs nothing. :D my favouorite price.