Extra weight - will I need a lift?

[Horness]

I have just taken delivery of my new HD rear bumper and sliders (Thanks Discoparts) for my 300 TDi.  Once these are added, along with a HD front bumper (not sure yet if it will be a winch bumper), it will mean my Disco is now carrying:

HD Rear bumper
HD Front Bumper
Sliders + Tree Guards
Steering Guard
2x Diff guards
Fuel Tank Guard

...plus some other bits, snorkel, light bar, recovery gear, normally 2 adults etc.

All I have is a 1" spacer kit (from Wizardbilt).  I don't want to lift the Disco if I don't need to.  The spacers were fitted mainly to keep the original ride height once all this is fitted.  
Question is though, am I now facing a HD spring/shock upgrade (because of the extra weight), and if so, what options do I have to keep things as "normal" as possible?  I don't want the side effects of big lifts.

Advice, opinions all appreciated. ;-)

Horness

PS: This place makes me spend too much money!

[beast5680]

personally i would fit heavy duty springs as your original suspension may be on the soft side with all the extra weight on board which will cancel out the 1" spacer anyway and leave it at the original ride height :?

[dminto69]

i suppose the best thing you could do is before you fit all your nice new goodies is measure the gap from top of wheel to wheel arch and then fit all your goodies on and see if it as changed it , when i fitted my winch and winch bumper on plus dif guards steering guard , light bar, snorkel it brought my car down so i bought a kit from paddocks which gave me a 1 half lift on the front and a 2 inch on the back which levelled my car and made it sit proud . but you already have a 1 inch lift its just if the weight will pull the springs down as all springs in time lose strength . im not very experienced as only just done mine and you will get alot of people saying yes and no best thing to do is to make your own mind up. once its all fitteed all the best.
dave

[Horness]

Thanks guys for the advice.  Before I fit the sliders and bumpers I'll get my tape out.  With just the 1" spacers and all the underbody protection fitted, it still looks like the 1" has remained (or close to it) - I will compare it to a standard Disco as well.

Which Paddocks Kit are you using Dave? (http://www.paddockspares.com/sp/category/OFF_ROAD/subcategory/Coil_Springs_and_Kits/searchbox2/2)_Lift_Kits.html)

Anyone know the difference between the "Without Winch" and "With Winch" kits, as the parts listed are identical?

Horness

[Budgie]

"With Winch" have slightly higher rated front springs to cope with the extra weight.    

If you're not looking to spend too much more then maybe have a word with Famous Four who will do you a standard height H/D spring made to cope with the extra equipment you have fitted.

How long were the standard springs on there before you fitted the 1" spacer? If the springs were worn when you put the spacers on then you may have got the same effect from a new set of standard springs!

To decide what to do you really need to fit the equipment and drive it, just seeing if it droops more on the driveway isn't going to tell you if the springs can cope with the extra weight or not.

If it were me, I'd ditch the spacers and get springs that were built to do the job you want them to do.  

[Cal]

Hi Horness,

I've got Famous Four HD springs front and back on mine, with not much in the way of extra kit (yet!).

I'm finding that the ride is pretty good - bit harsh over very short bumps like corrugations, but it's also settling down a bit now after about 3 months of being fitted.

The only thing I further I was considering was a 1 inch spacer at the rear - I don't have a HD front bumper or winch so the front is looking pretty high and a fuel tank guard will only make this worse.

Can't quite tell how much is real and how much is optical illusion from the curved side sills...

Generally though - v pleased with the Famour Four kit - got the Bilsteins and blue polybushes from them as well.

Hope that helps a little

[Horness]

Originally the spacer's did the trick.  With the small amount of mods, and the extra load in the back, the extra 1" they provided were fine.  Now things (and terrains) are changing, and the lift I thought I never needed seems like a must-have.  :roll:

I think I will have to go for a HD lift.  What changes are actually needed for a 2" lift?   Famous 4 have a 1" lift which seems ideal, but if I'm going in boots first, I may look at Paddocks +2" "kit" which comprises of

Part No. DISKIT2PFULL

Kit consists of 2 pairs of Britpart Performance Coil Springs (1x DA4202 and 1x DA4204) and 4 Pro Comp ES9000 plus 2 inch Gas Shock Absorbers, 1 pair of front dislocation cones(inc. HD spring retainers), 1 pair of rear dislocation cones, HD front and rear spring retainers, 4x extended polyurethane bump stops, 1x set of Goodridge stainless steel braided brake hoses (plus 4 inch).

On my 235/70/16's my Disco is going to look like a rollerskate.  All that space under the wheelarch may need to be filled as well.  

Horness

[Budgie]

Even with the Paddock's kit you still need to phone them and make sure that the springs WILL take the weight of extra kit you have. They maybe  H/D but that maybe H/D rated for a standard vehicle!!  

If you ring round a few places then you may find you can get what you want/need without forking out too much.
Why buy a full suspension kit when you only want/need a set of springs?  :?

[Henry Webster]

Ignoring spacers for the moment - ride height is dictated by two things; the rating of the spring and its length.

Put simply if you want your Discovery to ride at the same height as it does now, the proper way to do it is to up-'rate' the springs to cope with the new sprung weight (worth bearing in mind that diff guards etc. are unsprung weight and so don't affect ride height.)

Personally I would get some heavier duty springs.  Famous Four (as already stated) or other specialists should be able to advise as your mods are not uncommon.  Also when buying springs, why not do the job properly and have +1" and ditch the spacers.

Cheers

H

[Cal]

Are spacers not as good as longer springs then?

Bit of a pointless questino for me as I can't afford new prings after only recently putting on the new kit.

Would +1 rears work OK with standard height fronts do you reckon?

[Henry Webster]

In my opinion spacers are a bit of a bodge.  They work fine and can be a good option if you are on a budget (aren't we all?!), but not as well as getting the proper length springs, then you will benefit from extra wheel travel rather than just height.

On your second point.  I would try and do a full set at a time and not mix and match spacers and springs.

H

[Cal]

Sorry Henry, that's not quite what I meant.

At the moment I've got standard length HD springs front and back but the vehicle now sits a bit nose up, which I was thinking of compensating for with spacers at the rear.

So what I meant was, would it be OK to put +1 springs (of the same rating) at the rear, or is this the kind of situation where spacers are OK?

Or should spacers and/or springs always be changed in fours rather than pairs?

Thanks.

[Henry Webster]

I suggest you speak to Famous Four about it.  Its really difficult to advise because springs vary quite alot.

One inch spacers may well work, one inch lift springs may be better, but it is really more of a cosmetic thing than a practical one.

H

[Budgie]

You'll pay about £45 for a set of +1" spacers and about £75 for a pair of correctly rated +1" rear springs, I think I'd pay the extra £30 for the springs.  

[Henry Webster]

Me too!

[Budgie]

One other thought Cal, and I know it may sound like teaching Granny to suck eggs but, are you sure you got the springs the right way round. It is possible to put the rears on the front, in which case the front will be sitting higher than the rear.  

[Cal]

Thanks guys.

Sorry to hijack the thread Horness  :oops:

[Cal]

One other thought Cal, and I know it may sound like teaching Granny to suck eggs but, are you sure you got the springs the right way round. It is possible to put the rears on the front, in which case the front will be sitting higher than the rear.

I would hope so Budgie - I didn't do it myself as I'm rubbish at that sort of stuff. But I have looked underneath and you can just about tell that the rear springs are progressive and the front ones aren't.

Both front and rear are +25% so I just assumed that that's why the front is/looks higher than it did before.

You've got me worried now - maybe I should get a 2nd opinion!  :lol:

[Horness]

Don't worry Cal.  

Thanks Henry and Budgie.  Email dropped to Famous Four to see what I need.
I am happy to swap out the spacers to be honest, if that's what is needed to do it right.  The reason they are there is because I was not doing that much off-road in the Disco, but lately, and especially when I get my new family car, it's going to get used a lot more.

Horness

[Cal]

I'd be interested in what they say Horness if you don't mind letting us know?

[Horness]

I'd be interested in what they say Horness if you don't mind letting us know?

Will do.  

[Cal]

Cheers Horness.

You've got me really "worried" now Budgie - the springs did come with part numbers on that I pointed out to the guys who fitted them and they do have a good reputation.

I'm assuming it's just one of those land rover things - it's doesn't look like those old RRs you see with their bums nearly touching the ground!

[Budgie]

If you can see the tighter coils at the top of the rears then you're OK. There is quite a marked difference if you do it wrong, like a couple of inches!!  

[Cal]

Phew!! Looks like I'm OK then - you had me going there!  :lol:

[Horness]

Reply from Famous 4 as promised.

June 1, 2006

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your recent enquiry Re. Parts.

I would suggest looking at fitting heavy duty +1” springs to your vehicle, if you fit these you will have to remove the 1” spacers that you have fitted now otherwise I am sure that the vehicle will sit more than one inch higher than standard. The heavy duty springs will deal with the extra weigh better than standard springs which is why you would expect the vehicle to be higher than it is with spacers fitted. I would also recommend fitting heavy duty gas assisted dampers at the same time.

The most cost effective way to do this is to fit our ‘Enhanced’ handling kit which costs £365.00.

If you wanted us to fit the Enhanced kit this would cost a further £112.50

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Looks like more expense then.  :roll:

Horness