Idiots!!!!!!!

[Bulli]

After all the trouble we have gone to, it just makes you mad!. Well done it must have taken some bottle to confront such a big group, good on ya.

[LandRoger]

After all the trouble we have gone to, it just makes you mad!. Well done it must have taken some bottle to confront such a big group, good on ya.

 Bottle? Well at the time i was so angry - just didnt think it could turn nasty, it did dawn on me once the jeering started -thats when i carressed my Winchester 3 shot semi auto, im a Pest controller and they were pests
so-NO i wont go there :twisted:  :twisted: Seriously it was a dodgy thing to
confront so many but i knew that i could have Warden,Mod police, back up
in minuets,

[WishIhadaLandy]

I then did something that i have never done before in my life -i rang the MOD Police and Grassed them  giving OS map referance to pinpoint them

Doesn't even count as grassing, its just being a responsible citizen, they were breaking the law and you took the appropriate action, just like if anyone saw someone breaking into a house or stealing or car, they would call the police.

Grassing is when you tell your boss that your mate had 10 minutes extra on his break, or kids telling teachers at school that johnny went somewhere he wasn't supposed to :shock: .

Good on you i say, like others have said this is a prime example of the minority ruining the sport (and giving it bad press) for the majority of responsible and sensible people.

[mark]

I would like to comment on the post by LandRoger on Monday 29th may Subject “Idiots” This is not an accurate account of the meeting;
First there were two Discovery’s two Range Rovers, two 90’s and one Nissan. I would now like to put the record straight. We were on the plain when we bumped into Roger. On or first meeting he made some comments to one of the group about ripping up the byways as he handed out flyers to join the Mud Club. I do not believe any of the group were in fact "tearing up the byway", however I had my attention fixed on my  GPS, which is linked to my laptop running memory map 2004, and at the time I was working out which byway we could take from the many lanes to chose from on the plain. Our track for the day is still on my lap top if anyone would like to see it.

The next time we met (and this is where Roger is referring to wives and siblings applauding our antics) - yes, I must confess this was off the byway BUT it was not an Ancient burial ground or Tumulus as they are known, Tumulus are distinct mounds and have posts around indicating what they are, they are also noted on the Ordinance Survey maps - which this was not. Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect. There were no signs indicating it was anything of the sort, we were not trying to “get some air” - if you saw my Range Rover you would know that is not what I do with it. As for gathering up spectators and doing a star burst escape, again no such thing happened. Roger explained we could be arrested, fined and have our vehicles confiscated from us. I am aware of this, which is why I tend to be careful where I am going while on the plain. There was no mass jeering or any comments such as “So What”. We parted, as I thought, on reasonable terms as I thought our conversation was over. He mentioned something about taking our numbers and we left all in one direction and slowly.
He then mentions taking a Short cut? Was that a byway? I don’t think so or at least I did not see it on the map, Rogers’s knowledge of the plain is obviously far greater than mine.

Next he watched us tearing up and down Roman road/ditch which was clearly marked! Clearly marked? Thinking back I do recall a few poles however nothing was fenced off, we did not knock any down. As you turn the corner following the byway you’re confronted with many tracks all heading off in the same direction, the lads found a muddy puddle on one of the tracks and drove through it. How wide is a byway? I have been told a byway is five metres wide. Ignorance is not an excuse and having spoken to everyone involved on the day we all say if we were off the byway we put our hands up and apologise.
If Roger would like help in filling the Roman road/ditch as he called it I am willing to give him a hand, I am sure Romans did not make ditches along their straight roads so I imagine it could do with filling in, which would stop people from driving through it

We did in fact meet with the police as Roger said, however there were only two 110 police land rovers and the land warden - one person in each vehicle, not the numbers indicated by Roger. The officer accused us of driving “Beeches Barn”. After listening to the officer I showed him my GPS track and asked where “Beeches Barn” was, he described it and  pointed it out on my laptop and could see that we had never been anywhere near it. The officers in the end was happy with our account of the events and went on their way No fixed penalty fines were given or numbers were taken.
I have been told that Roger is well respected and knows the Salisbury Plain very well. I don’t dispute this, what I do dispute is his account of the event and making us out to be a bunch of hooligans. This is far from the truth.
There are enough people making waves about the use of 4x4’s on the rights of way and even the highway without our own distorting the events, I wonder how many other accounted events posted on different forums are distortions of the truth.
I have no idea how we upset Roger and why he should write such fiction about us and as for naming and shaming. My name is Mark Bailey and I drive a Range Rover 3.9 EFI on Gas; It is not covered with loads of bolt on “Off  Road” gear as it is not necessary for enjoying green lanes. I regularly use green lanes all over the country. I have travelled abroad in Europe and Morocco and know how to use a map. I have also campaigned to keep green lanes free and have been involved in lane clearing to keep the lanes open. I am sorry Roger felt he needed to embroider the facts of a very mundane meeting to make it sound more than it was.

[sparkes]

Reading this lot I am very confused.

If the police where present then any illegal action would be noted and a fine given. but either way ALL of this is bad publicity on a public forum.  If the problem did take place several miles from a legal byway then why was a local rep there? Does he have access to roads that the normal user does not?

As for the group, Why so many vehicles? If, as you say you fight for the right to use the lanes then why not use the guidelines set out and split such a large group up?

Sorry, but someone is not giving an accurate account! and either way it looks bad on all of us who want to use the lanes in the future.

[bgwd]

Hi,

I feel I need to add my side to the orignal post that has obviously had an element of artistic licence added to it.

Living locally to salisbury plain and enjoying driving in the countryside getting to see sights that would normally never see even on foot I feel that it is important to keep our green lanes open and feel very passionate about it so here is my side.

I feel you probably don't want an account of the actions leading up to our meeting with Roger, however being a passenger in one of the Discovery's, it was a very sedate drive across the plain actually, following Mark in front with the GPS mapping system, as if anyone reading has driven the plain its still very easy to get lost even following A clearly marked OS map.

We met up with Roger in a copse of trees, not Beeches barn as stated,  now from my account we carried on driving the byways following the GPS.

Now for the bit of the original post where we were alleged to be jumping the vehicles over a burial mound !!!! we are all aware of the importance of burial mounds and not destroying them, across the plain these are clearly marked with white posts and signs for no digging (obviously), as Mark has stated we had found an incline that had been used by tanks driving up over a bank and used that but still not "jumping" as stated, surely thats for £500 range rovers that you take to specific off roading places that allow it! not expensive vehicles that are our everyday transport.

After our meeting with Roger with drove off in in the same direction and stopped about 1/2 mile away and put the kettle to be honest, in no way skattering as stated and meeting up later, we had been sat here for almost 15 minutes before the two police 110's arrived, had we been worried that we were doing anything wrong do you really think we would of stayed around! We did show the police where we had been via the GPS tracking, they were happy with the details supplied and no fixed penalties given or numbers taken. As we explained to them if we had been off the byway then we would of been more than happy to accept it.

There were indeed a few of us out on the day but each vehicle had either family or friends out for a day together.

As usual there are two sides to every story and will always be a contentious issue, however I do feel an injustice has been done to the way we as a group approach off-roading/greenlaning has been portrayed. For the benefit of all we are not selfish and want the lanes closed down, I feel very strongly that our freedom to travel on legitimate byways be kept alive and I would in no way be associated with a group of "hooligans"

In closing you can believe who you want, that is your right of a citizen of this country that you get your own free will, I just needed to say my piece and hopefully re-address the balance of negative to positive, we should all fight to keep our lanes open, there is such a strangle hold to close them down that we should all pull together as one, not bitch about each other, this isn't big brother now is it, we are sensible adults and hopefully all want the same thing.

Thank you for your time if you have read this to the bottom.  :)

[NiceBlueWellies]

It is very easy for people in the wrong to protest they are in the right, especially when they have just been shamed in public!  Easy too to say what has been put/said previous, is a wrong account of the situation, when they have had a chance to read/hear it previous to them putting their side.  

Fair enough, one of you is quite probably somewhat right - bits are always added onto a story to make it "a bit more interesting".

Why would though, a member of Mud-Club, who had been speading the word of this good club, then post a load of old tripe???  A certain amount of truth must come from the original story, as you were bound to come on here, read it and then join, even if just to have your two penneth.

Whichever is to be believed, lessons must be learnt.  Smaller groups, slower speeds and a civilised manner towards each other, even when you are told you are in the wrong (i.e. the jeering from partners, which quite frankly I do believe).  It is a bigger person who admits to doing wrong.

[the loon]

I'm not going to comment any further but its nice to have seen both sides have had a chance to express there side of the story from the events.

Also its good to see this hasnt been done as an unrestrained attack on anyone who has posted (thats the way I'm reading it) or on MC itself however now that both parties have made there points would it not be worth locking this thread and saying no more about it?

The only people who can now know EXACTLY what happened on the day are bgwd , mark and roger and the 3rd parties mentioned i.e the police.

Those of us that wenrt there have made our views felt but again we can not directly say who is telling the truth. We can form our own opinions based on whats been said etc.

just my stance on this as I've beenm in the similar situation of alligations being made by people in the offroading community agaisnt myself and other parties.
Fortunatly in our case these where found to be totaly unsubstanciated and stemed from a personal grudge (no names to be mentioned)

[Manicminer]

After reading all the posts it looks to me as there must have been another group out at the same time.

Maybe both sides are correct in what they are saying

[Plum]

Ide like to retract my post of mon 29th may 11:30. . . . (where i was seen to "TAKE SIDES". . . . somthing of which i do not normally partake in. . .

Therefore the first thing id like to do is appologise to both parties involved,  as only themselves know what really did happen on that day. . . . . an its nothing at all to do with me,  nuff said. . . .

Secondly I hope that one day i'll be able to meet up with you Roger poss over a good stout or wee dram an pick your brains on the "plain". . .

Also to both Mark ( and welcome to the club my good man ),  and bgwd hopefully one day we'll also be able to meet "an have some damn good fun". . . .  yeah. . . . cos thats wot its all about is it not ? ? ?

                                Cheers an all the best to all
                                                    Plum

[LandRoger]

Let me put this right-the events i posted about took place on Sat 27th on
the western side of the plain near Cope hill down,Mod checks have since
revealed that these idiots came from the Warminster area Wilts,
The events that Mark Bailey posted about took place on the eastern side28th
First of all let me explain that i am a Pest controler for the Mod with an access all area permit flags permitting-that how i can be miles from any
byway rupps etc -i can indeed travel on tracks that are (out of bounds )
to the public,
The people in Marks group were OFF the Byway playing on rough ground
its my remit working closely with Wardens,rights of way officer,Police if need be to give the nod when coming accross such actions + poachers,
fly tippers peeps straying into Danger areas, all range staff have the same responceability,
I did hand out some Club flyers to a member of Marks group in the hope that they might join us and act in a responsable manner -when laning you
pass through leaving nothing but footprints- not stop for a play around on
the surrounding area!
I would not of handed out flyers to the idiots i reported on the 27th-the
same crew were at it again on Bank hol Monday despite the 30 pound tresspass tickets-i am led to belive that these people live on a travellers site so probably wont be around to pay the fines,
There trucks included a Land cruiser not a Patrol -numbers show that this was with Marks group, I didnt give Marks group another thought it wasnt that serious -but the other idiots i reported knowing they could loose there
motors -not a nice feeling,

[sparkes]

See all explained with ease.  Well done all for keeping level heads about it and letting the story out.

Now, when is the next Plains day being arranged??

[mark]

Funny how things happen
I have seen the mudclub at shows etc but never been too interested in joining, on the hole I don’t enjoy clubs there is always far too much politics that inevitably to go hand in hand with large clubs that just messes up the real reason the club was formed in the first place. Like minded people enjoying something they have a passion for.
Having read though the reply’s to Rogers initial posting I too would of reacted in the same way, you will always get people who have no regard for what they are doing and who it effects. The right of way in the UK is in a fragile position with so many people against there use.
I had intended to remove my association from the Mudclub once I posted our side of the story. However I have been gratified by the response once the situation has been resolved that I will continue my membership and make the site a regular visit.

Regards
Mark

[Tailendcharley]

:)  :) Welcome Mark...glad to have you on board :)  :)

    Billy no Mates  

[theross]

I'm happy to see this has all been resolved.  I'd like too add that its good to have a forum where such a reasoned debate can take place, everyone can have their say and ultimately everything is sorted out.

Now lets get muddy.

[WishIhadaLandy]

good to see that this has come to a happy end, and that both parties were in the right about what they said.
i think both parties should in fact be commended for their good handling of the incident and not just shouting and yelling. Good on all of you, and welcome to the club for those who have joined. :D :D

[Bob696]

I still think that LandRoger should have shot the idiots. It would have solved any case of mistaken identity :P

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Welcome to the Club, Mark, everyone is welcome.
 I will stick by my first post on this thread of "Well done matey" to Roger as I dare say I would have done the same thing.
The truth always comes out.

[mark.yellow.series.3]

my head hurts :x

[blackbob]

at the end of the day we need to protect the green lanes and not give the antis ammo to shut them all down and take the country side away from all
if people follow the simple rules and stick to the correct tracks then any misunderstandings could be easily avoided
hope you do stick with mud club cos the folk on hear are OK and like to help everone