Opinions on Bronco retreads or remoulds in general

[discograham]

I ran colway m/ts on my frontera for 3 years.. same set, little wear, good ride and quiet... with my 3 kids in the car.. never a problem.
Recently got machos on the disco... really great off road and not bad on road but already noticing signs of wear... £50 each... time will tell if its a case of false economy or not....

[Henry Webster]

I agree largely with Rollazuki!

I use 205R16 Kingpin Highlander Diamonds on the racer and think nothing of doing 100+ on them on gravel tracks.   They don't last long (2-3 events in common with most rally tyres!), but they are fantastic at the job.

I also use Goodyear MT/R 225/75/16 on the racer.  These have lasted much longer and are more stable in the fast stuff, but don't have the same levels of traction when it gets sticky!

On my road car I choose to use first life casings - i.e. new tyres, this is purely down to economics.  I reckon I get much more life out of new tyres than I would out of remoulds.

I would have no problems running on remoulds on the road, but choose not to other than on the racer.  It is, however, fair to say that the quality of remoulds does vary, even within one type of tyre in the manufacturers range.  Wherever possible I try to pick the tyres from a selelction when I buy remoulds.  That way I have some control on the casings used.

Cheers

H

[Thrasher]

...so it's down to the load rating then - and that *IS* the biggy. This would explain why I was told that my MT's on Owl were load rated.....and no mention of speed rating was made.....

For example - if we were unlimted - 3 tons of RR at 170mph would have a serious issue if the tyres were not LOAD rated.....ON AN AUTOBAHN.

So....er.....get's confusing eh? Your remoulds are legal in the UK on sealed roads, but illegal elsewhere?

[rollazuki]

I have to agree, if I was driving something with nigh on supercar performance Id mebbe think twice, but I think for the average suv driver who also drives off-road, they are a safe, economical, and green option.
As fossil fuels run out, we may find that new tyres become prohibitively expensive, and recycling tyres will become the norm. I dont know what you are going on about anyway thrasher, Im sure your rangie sport nutter thingy would be fine on a set of SAT remould mudders..... :lol:

mebbe not :?:

[Thrasher]

SPORT!!! <spit>

It's a PROPER Range Rover :-)  

Not a footballers fashion accessory : :roll:

[dazzawhipple]

Umm
Re moulds I have them on my disco for the fact is if i rip them then 40 quid is better than 100

I also have on my other car which i run back and forwards to work 600 miles per week thay have done 20K I have had no issues with them

But if it was high performance then the best tyres money can buy

Darren

[mark.yellow.series.3]

i reallity, could any of acually tell if a tyre is remoulded or not (ifn it had no markings on the tyre of course).
they look the same, they drive the same, they last as long.
like one of the other posts said neally all truck tyres are re moulds, and if its good enough for 40 tonners then its good enough for my old truck.

[ade666]

i have grip edge on my disco for day to day. i do about 400 miles aweek. they seem to be fine and i love the humm.  although i only drive at a max of 60. my boss would revoke my fuel card if i started using more than a tank of juice a week. i also have grizzlies for offroading and they are fantastic. but as i'm retiring the disco to play toy only i think i'm going to get a set of 265/75 insa special tracks

[bullfrog]

My point would be the influx in the 4x4 market of new brands of remoulds that may be inferior in quility.
For offroad use yes but not at 70 odd mph.
I think you will find that 90% of retreads are speed rated to less that the average modern landy .
I thought most truck tyres were recut not retread ??
I still find it strange rading peoples list of mods that most have expensive snorkels, Lift kits and such yet skrimp on the most safety critical component ??
Just my opinion though. :?

[discograham]

My macho's have a speed rating of 90 mph... I can do 90 downhill with a following wind... :lol:
With my children in the car I drive more slowly.. I have a spare set of scorpion a/ts... Twice the cost of my retreads and some... and rated higher.. but I can still only do 90...

[ben_haynes]

As Captain Vimes pointed out :

One of the reasons the rich stay rich is that they buy ONE pair of expensive shoes, instead of 5 pairs of cheap shoes that cost more in the long run than the ONE pair of "expensive" shoes.......

In other words, you get what you pay for (mostly) :-)

P.S. My current record is 11 years for a pair of Nikes - and yes I DO wear them, and 15 years for a pair of DM's.......

i dont agree thrasher i wear a pair of £12 trainers but a bloke i work withhe buys £60 - £80 pairs every 2 or 3 months because they are worn out Nike, Adidas

[jjsaul]

if we're on that ive got a pair of Oakley boots which i bought about 5 yrs ago...wear regularly and theyre still going strong. theyre not quite as cream coloured as they used to be..think that could be down to ep90 though  :lol:

[Lee_D]

Found this thread looking for grip edge reviews.

But feel I have to say work provided me boots for free, they have survived glass bottles, barbed wire and petrol bombs. I've had them for probably 9 years now and wear them daily. Laces don't like petrol bombs mind.

Any one actually got any feedback on the grip edge?
 :)

[Range Rover Blues]

I don't like remoulds.

Yes I know,it's a prejudice but I think that remoulds are tyres living on borrowed time.

In their defence, recyling is good, remoulds are very green.

My Machos were btter off-road than my BFG MT, or is that just my memory playing tricks?

Amazons have a better speed-rating than BFG MT anyway, important for a V8.

Downside, remoulds are often inconsistant, you don't know what's underneath so how can you get 2 the same?

Apparently many are bullt onto truck tyres so the sidewalls are stiffer (truck tyres are better for long life).

Then the whole qualty issure of sticking a new tread onto a tyre that's lived a full life, which sees the rubber it's made from harden with the constant heating/cooling that tyres suffer.

You pays your money..........

[Eeyore]

Just to point out, the legislation mentioned above only applies to goods vehicles and their trailers, it seemingly doens't apply to passenger vehilces.

According a number of our tyre fitting franchisers, what does apply to passenger vehicles is that you can fit any speed rating you like, as long as you don't exceed the speed rating of the tyre when on the road. Now, whether your insurance company likes this is a different story altogether and you may find your company invalidates your insurance if you use a tyre with a lower speed rating than they'd like (no joking here).

Second point, airplane and truck tyres have very rigid carcasses and are designed from the out to be remoulded. Car tyres aren't. Car tyres are designed to have a finite life and you have no idea as to how old the carcass you have is. Yes, there is legislation, but as pointed out above, some folk are quite unscrupulous with their application of legislation (like a well known case where a company was illegally e-marking there tyres!).

Did you know some 4x4 remoulds are made from commercial vehicle carcasses? That has a significant impact on handling......

Yes, remoulds can be very good, but a first life tyre will be built to a more traceable standard.

Buy Wolfie a ginger beer and ask him about the conversation he had with the chief designer of Dunlop.  

Personally, my BFGs have clocked up 70,000 miles and are still going strong (if on the limit for lifespan). I haven't ripped side wall out although I've peeled off the rims a few times! I will be buying the same again. Some things (IMO) just ain't worth skimping on.  

We race on first-life tyres too, and not just because we got 'em at a discount (which, thank you Matador, did take the sting out a fair bit!).

You do pays your money and you do takes your choice, but be aware of all the facts before commiting your hard-earned.

Colway do have a good reputation, other manufacturers don't.

Anyone for a lottery?  :lol:

Food for thought
Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Bush Tucker Man]

 Now, whether your insurance company likes this is a different story altogether and you may find your company invalidates your insurance if you use a tyre with a lower speed rating than they'd like (no joking here).

And they are able to do so!
So if you're using (for example) 'L' rated Simex (if they're rated that highly?) on your bob-tailed Rangie, or V8 90 & have a RTA, the insurer can dispute payment to you - as it can do more than the speed rating of the tyre.
They would probably pay the third party, but try & claim it back from you?

From speaking to Traffic Officers at work (who come to interview RTA victims) they, or the Accident Investigators, do look at the tyre speed ratings.
Okay.... I know that it's unlikely that probably 99% of what the incidents they investigate will be in no way related to a non speed-rated tyre, but as they say; 'Ignorance of the law is no defence'

Personally, my BFGs have clocked up 70,000 miles and are still going strong (if on the limit for lifespan). I haven't ripped side wall out although I've peeled off the rims a few times! I will be buying the same again

The BFG A/T's on my 110 have done almost 57,000miles & are (I think?) the original fitment, & they have roughly 4 - 5mm left.

My first 110 had the original Avon Rangemasters on when I bought it at 47,000miles.
They were a bit more than half-worn, but still worked extremely well in all situations; bar Clay.
I replaced them with a set of Bronco M/T's (the BFG M/T replica)
They covered almost 30,000miles in my company & were excellent on all surfaces; from 70MPH on Welsh mountain roads (around Sweet Lamb, Llanberis, etc...), towing, commuting, mud, etc...
The only place they let me down was on Pendine Sands :oops: , as I got bogged in soft sand with the tide coming in :(scared):  (but a bit of rocking with dif-lock engaged got us out)


When the BFG's wear out, I'll probably look at the Bronco 'Grip-Edge', unless I can find a set of Trac-Edges that have lived a secluded & dark life on the back of a tyre-depots shelves

[fudge]

After consideration, and a nice telephone call (not many supliers would do that) from Mark Sowden, I've ordered 5 Macho's..... (from him at www.sowdentyres.co.uk) need to get the alloys refurbed now!

I think it's been mentioned before somewhere, people buy from people! I've just proven that, I tried to buy some locally yesterday and no one could be bothered to get off their arse to get me a price! may be because I wasn't buying BFG's @ £100 + Per Corner, still they've lost £255 of my cash!

Mark said that a customer of his has done 48k on a pair of Machos mounted on the front axle of a 4x4! I know several people with them, seems good enough to me.

[landy4x4xfar]

ok im late on this one i run MT 235/70/16 grizzly claws on my disco

got them in feb 2004 and used on road for two years up and down motorway and and rtv's not a problem untill mot time when they would knock 7 bells out the brake test equipment at the mot station oh what fun it was seeing there equipment suffer to see the reading jumping up and down with the tread  anyway still use them now not all the time as ive got insa turbo AT 235/70/16 mountain

as i have to do more motorway miles now
 remolds i love them they work just as good as bfg,s but cheaper
  they worked for me for over 10 years now no problems

[Jas278]

MMMMMMM GRIZZLIES
 





Report on 4 Tyres:
branded
‘BRONCO’ Grizzly Claw
 belonging to Mr *****************
 
Ref:










Report prepared for
****************
Leicester Trading Standards












Report prepared by
S.A.**********– HND, ONC.






INTRODUCTION

I am currently employed by ‘Starco’ Europe, which is part of the ‘Scandinavian Tyre and Rim Company’, as Technical Director.  In addition to my responsibility for technical matters in the UK, my role extends to technical support for all 13 plants around Europe and Russia. The Company manufactures wheels, tyres and wheel assemblies for supply as Original Equipment to vehicle manufacturers.  Previously, Goodyear had employed me for fifteen years until May 2000.  My final position as Technical Training Manager, gave me responsibility for all Technical Training of company personnel operating throughout the UK, Europe and the Middle East. Prior to this position I was Manager of Product Performance and Service department for six years until 31st December 1994.  In this role I had occasion to examine many thousands of tyres having failed either in service, or as a result of systematic destructive testing.

I began my career with British Leyland as an apprentice and gained extensive experience in all aspects of automotive engineering in both design and practical skills. I hold an HND qualification in Mechanical Engineering and an ONC in Electronics.  Following my apprenticeship I worked for 11 years in research and development, specifically dealing with axles, brakes and suspension systems as part of a vehicle design team.  I specialise in all aspects of vehicle design and behaviour, and in particular, tyres, their performance, and the interaction between tyres and vehicle suspension design.

I have been asked to examine the subject tyre(s) with the purpose of identifying the reasons for their current condition, the nature of any structural failure and any possible implications to the merchantable and safe condition for sale.  I was given the information that the wheels and tyres were fitted to a ‘Landrover Discovery’ 4 x 4 vehicle and had only travelled for a relatively short distance since they were supplied.

THE TYRE(S)

I examined 4off wheel and tyre assemblies at a private address in********, at the request of Mr ***********of Leicester Trading Standards, the details of which were as follows:

Tyre size: LT 265/75R16    
Service description: 112Q
Brand: ‘Bronco’ Grizzly Claw
TDR: 14mm centre-line – 17mm at shoulder
Production date / Serial No: No markings

Other markings:   Retread made in England – conforms to BSAU 144


EXAMINATION

Following a careful examination of the wheels and tyres, the following details were noted:

Wheel Assembly No. 1

 The first of four tyres was examined having been fitted to the front of the vehicle, to reveal a structural failure in the shoulder area of the tyre such that complete and catastrophic deflation had occurred.

There was clear evidence of rubber degradation and cracking due to overheating and rubber reversion at the base of the large shoulder blocks and also at the junction between these blocks and the carcass where there are naturally uneven stresses due to the heavy lug design.  
The carcass showed clear signs of distress at these same points and had suffered separation between radial cords and also belt edge, resulting in structural failure.  The carcass had suffered from severe abrasion and overheating in the shoulder areas as was evidenced by the inner liner condition.  I was unable to detect any evidence of a penetration which might have caused the deflation.  The deflation appears to have been caused by the break-up of the tyre structure, the evidence of overheating being such that it had occurred over a relatively short distance including the time taken for the driver to pull over and stop when it was realised that the tyre had failed.

Wheel Assembly No. 2

The second tyre, also having been fitted to the front of the vehicle, was also showing similar signs of rubber reversion in the shoulder blocks with some cracks beginning to appear.  However, this tyre remained intact insofar as it was still inflated and no major structural failure was immediately apparent.

Wheel Assembly No’s 3 & 4

These two tyres remained in apparently sound and inflated condition.

Balance Weights

The following quantities of balance weights were seen to be fitted to the wheel assemblies, having been balanced by the tyre shop who supplied the new wheels and tyres;

Wheel assembly #1 – 225 grams
Wheel assembly #2 – 200 grams
Wheel assembly #3 – 190 grams
Wheel assembly #4 – 100 grams


TERMS OF REFERENCE

There are standards laid down within European Directives ECE108 / ECE109 regarding the manufacture and testing of such remoulded tyres.

These performance requirements are specifically to ensure that process quality is consistent to the original development of the remoulded product, and that any such product is capable of being operated within the performance suggested by its service description.

The markings ‘conforms to BSAU 144’ are out-dated and obsolete for two reasons (i) They are now superseded by ECE 108 / 109, & (ii) In any event, there were several suffix additions and revisions to BSAU 144 even when it was current, no such suffix is marked on these tyres, this means that these markings were insufficient even when last BSAU 144 was current.

The remoulding processor is totally responsible for ensuring that the carcasses gleaned from tyres having previously worn-out treads, are in suitable condition for both the re-moulding process and the subsequent safe operation with the new re-moulded tread. A further requirement is dynamometer testing (sometimes referred to as ‘drum’ testing) for the required duration to prove that the tyre tread design, rubber compounds used and re-manufacturing process are all of such integrity that they are safe for continuous operational use up to the full load and speeds indicated by that service description.

The above mentioned dynamometer tests are required to be repeated during production runs to ensure that each subsequent batch also complies with the same requirements.
 
CONCLUSIONS

The tyres fitted to the front axle of the vehicle whilst it was lightly loaded (as was the case according to Mr******), would be subjected to a higher load than those on the rear axle due to the un-laden weight distribution of the vehicle, additionally, the steering forces would also load the shoulder areas of the tyres more than those at the rear.  This is therefore a fair indication that the loads at the front axle, although being far below what the tyres are able to carry according to their service description, creates the differing results.  Both front tyres were showing signs of distress, with one of them having failed completely, both rear tyres being in better condition than the front ones.  

The two front tyres showed clear evidence of overheating and rubber reversion in the shoulder areas and as the tyres were not carrying their maximum load, this tends to indicate a small safety margin with regard to heat generation and satisfactory running temperature.  

Mr *******informed me that he had operated these tyres in the same way as on previous sets of tyres and at the same correct recommended pressures for the vehicle, and I am unable to detect any collaborative evidence for under-inflation prior to the complete deflation of the tyre due to the carcass break-up.  

The quantity of balance weights fitted would give concern regarding the uniformity of the re-moulded tyres; generally, re-moulded tyres have very good uniformity as the action of buffing off the worn-out tread tends to reduce any run-out within the original carcass.  It is interesting also to note that the worst offender in this regard, was in fact the same tyre on the front of the vehicle which had failed.

It would be a matter for further investigation as to whether the remoulding manufacturer has in fact dynamometer tested the original remould design and/or the subsequent production batches, to prove the ability of the tyres to be operated safely at the rated load and speed in accordance with ECE 108 / 109.  

These tyres do not carry the required markings to indicate that they comply with the required testing procedures for the above mentioned standards.

It is therefore my considered opinion that these tyres do not comply with the necessary regulations, governing the sale of such tyres for use on the public highway.  








********************– December 2005.

[Eeyore]

You know, within ten days of first readin' that, I found three other folk within 5 miles of my location who recently had new Slippery Paws delaminate on them. One at speed.

Like I said, you pays yours money, you takes your choice.......

Makes you wonder

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Dave]

Buy good tyres if you carn't afford good tyres dont eat for a week and put the money to your tyres it will be worth it.

[landy4x4xfar]

"Jas278"]MMMMMMM GRIZZLIES

they where 265,s you where had problems with and having read the report i would have to think twice myself

but mine are 235,s and are still fine to my untrained eye i have had no problems so far but will keep an eye on them just in case[/quote]

[cardiff_gareth]

Well I have Colway remounds all round - 245/70R16

These have a speed rating of 99mph which is faster than my Disco will go so no worries there. The only thing that has happened to me is that one blew out if that makes sense between the tread pattern. I didn't run over anything, it just went bang when I was driving along and on closer inspection, there was a flap like hole.

I think you can't go wrong for the money, its true you get what you pay for, my last disco had Pirelli Scorpian ST's that were brill but this Disco is on a tight budget so Colway it was - £49 per tyre inc VAT ain't bad at all

[shaun and co]

i run on colway AT's and absolutely love them- great on and off road. the reason i switched to them though was because i needed to get the main brand tyres off as they had just nearly killed me again by locking up in the wet. Saying that though i wouldn't put remoulds on the 170 mph+ bike (on track days only)! true that you have to make a choice but i've taken colways right down to the death and they havent fallen appart on me yet.

[marjan]

I run on Colway M/T's and apart from a bit of road hum I find them ok on the road and fantastic in the mud!.

[ragerover]

bronco tyres would not give them to osama bin laden

check this out 7000 odd miles 70 mph blow out rang bronco and emailed told me tough luk and basicly f@k off would use them if i was paid my son is lucky to be alive

[landy4x4xfar]

they look like dirt devils to me ive had my Grizzly Claws now 3years and done 20,000k on and off road still going strong but that does look a nasty one

[ragerover]

yep bought them at billing in the july this happened following august they told me old stock no warranty ~(although not told old stock) they also said all broncos only  :warranted for 1 year  

[Jas278]

BRONCO.............mmm customer service... :-k ..........not there strongest point, read the Tyre report and see if they conform to legislation..

[RCRockCrawler]

We have Colway A/Ts on the series 3. IMHO they're fine for a 4X4 that does 60mph at a push and spends most of it's time waiting to be fixed anyway...  :lol:  :lol: