drink driving check

[andycwb]

One thing I am not.. when referring to crime and punishment... is tolerent... hang 'em, flog 'em, chuck away the key etc... :lol:
Society has gone soft and we shall reap the whirlwind... :shock:

I meant tolerant of the policing, not the crime!  I'm as much for hanging, flogging and key-chucking as you are, but I don't want my life interfered with while we catch them.

Yes, I'm an idealist.

[NiceBlueWellies]

This is not about stopping crime.. this is about not destroying lives..
I don't care if I'm stopped 3 times a day.. as long as it's polite and quick and purely for the purpose of a breath test... I don't drink and drive and never have but the point is how do the old bill know who is innocent until they check ? .. let them check...

With you - let them check.

I've been checked going into clubs before, and never objected.  As Discograham says, they won't know who is innocent till they check.  

[Dirty Gertie]

There should certainly be the same level of legislation and enforcement around other mind-altering drugs.  It's perverse that it's (sort of) OK to drive when out of your mind on something you shouldn't have been able to take in the first place.

Well, I'm not sure what law books you've been reading; but in this country, there IS zero tolerance on "Drug-driving" any illegal drug in the system will attract a LONG ban; the only strange thing is that driving after the consumption of alcohol; THE[/u] most destructive drug of all; is STILL thought by an unenlightened minority to be acceptable!!
  :roll:

[discograham]

Don't you find this a little odd.. ? Most people I talk to on issues pertaining to crime and punishment seem to hold similar views to those that I hold. Even those who supposedly speak on our behalf and are directly involved with the passing of new legislation seem on the face of it to hold similar views...
It just begs the question... why are things that we would wish.. such as police stopping people as they leave pubs and events and breathalising them, just not done..? Damn your civil rights... no CIVIL person has a RIGHT to endanger the lives of others... its time this country stopped hiding behind the various civil rights laws... I'm tired of hearing these toerags screaming "you can't do that.. I know my rights..."
Or am I just a little right wing of Attila the Hun.. ?

[andycwb]

Don't you fi

Well, I'm not sure what law books you've been reading; but in this country, there IS zero tolerance on "Drug-driving" any illegal drug in the system will attract a LONG ban; the only strange thing is that driving after the consumption of alcohol; THE[/u] most destructive drug of all; is STILL thought by an unenlightened minority to be acceptable!!

I have a deal with the lawyers around here.  I don't tell them about the law, and they don't tell me how to run computer networks.  I'm not sure of the precise legislation, I do know that alcohol is the only one for which there is a defined limit and easily administered test - probably because it's so commonplace.

It just begs the question... why are things that we would wish.. such as police stopping people as they leave pubs and events and breathalising them, just not done..? Damn your civil rights... no CIVIL person has a RIGHT to endanger the lives of others... its time this country stopped hiding behind the various civil rights laws... I'm tired of hearing these toerags screaming "you can't do that.. I know my rights..."
Or am I just a little right wing of Attila the Hun.. ?

Well said.   I think we are actually in closer agreement that this thread might suggest.  I tend to lean a little more to giving people the rope to hang themselves with (I'd prefer to do it in a way that didn't let them take someone else with them) than to having lots of checks and balances which assume everyone might be guilty to start with, but no, endangering other people is a NOT a right.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

With the drug side of things you have to show that the person was 'impaired', and it can also mean any drug, not necessarily illegal ones. When you next get a prescription, check what it says on the label. If it says 'Do not operate machinery.....', what do we do?
Also certain chemicals that the average person can be exposed to in everyday life can cause a breath test machine to register as 'over', eg toluene, which is found in most adhesives.
So if you have a day laying cork tiles on the floor, using glue, you could well register as over, and it has been held in a court of law that toluene is a drug.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not pro or whatever label could be thrown at me. Drink/Driving is wrong. Disqulaified driving is wrong. All crime is wrong
If you know someone who drink/drug drives, phone Plod and get them nicked. It really is that simple.

[att]

I am suprised at some of the comments passed on here about civil liberties etc.
I suppose the majority of the great british public will indeed be relieved when the State microchips everyone of us.
It will be here within the next 20 years.
The public will accept it with open arms by the time they have finished getting themselves into such a state as they see it as the only way to stop others from harming them and their material possessions :roll:

The richer we become the less freedom we have, we do it to ourselves :roll:

Folk need to be more chilled about stuff and life in general.
People are going to die despite all the action taken by authorities etc.

4X4`s will be banned soon enough too, they are more harmful to a pedestrian than anything else, best we ban them at the same time as everything else.

If your child was to be run over, would you choose a 4X4 or a modern normal size car to administer the impact?.....Bring into the equation the fitment of bullbar and winch and I don`t think there would be an argument of any sort.....

[discograham]

Lord Shagg-Pyle...
I take your point regarding the effects that other chemicals may have on the human body.. and at this point have no comment to make.. :shock:
However... regarding the idea of ringing the police to advise them of a drunk driver's location... No... it simply won't work. I have done exactly that.... back to police response times... not good enough..

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I am suprised at some of the comments passed on here about civil liberties etc.
I suppose the majority of the great british public will indeed be relieved when the State microchips everyone of us.
It will be here within the next 20 years.
The public will accept it with open arms by the time they have finished getting themselves into such a state as they see it as the only way to stop others from harming them and their material possessions :roll:

The richer we become the less freedom we have, we do it to ourselves :roll:

Folk need to be more chilled about stuff and life in general.
People are going to die despite all the action taken by authorities etc.

4X4`s will be banned soon enough too, they are more harmful to a pedestrian than anything else, best we ban them at the same time as everything else.

If your child was to be run over, would you choose a 4X4 or a modern normal size car to administer the impact?.....Bring into the equation the fitment of bullbar and winch and I don`t think there would be an argument of any sort.....

Some aspects of the above I agree with, but if we can do something to alleviate the suffering caused by the idiot minority, surely that is better?
If a person gets hit by any sort of vehicle it will cause damage.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Lord Shagg-Pyle...
I take your point regarding the effects that other chemicals may have on the human body.. and at this point have no comment to make.. :shock:
However... regarding the idea of ringing the police to advise them of a drunk driver's location... No... it simply won't work. I have done exactly that.... back to police response times... not good enough..

If you phone enough times, they will have to sit up and take notice. Everything these days is monitored for performance figures, so if enough people phone something has to be done.

No worries about having no comment, DiscoGraham. Have we found mutual ground?

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Lord Shagg-Pyle...
I take your point regarding the effects that other chemicals may have on the human body.. and at this point have no comment to make.. :shock:
However... regarding the idea of ringing the police to advise them of a drunk driver's location... No... it simply won't work. I have done exactly that.... back to police response times... not good enough..

If you phone enough times, they will have to sit up and take notice. Everything these days is monitored for performance figures, so if enough people phone something has to be done.

No worries about having no comment, DiscoGraham. Have we found mutual ground?

[discograham]

Lord Shagg-Pyle..
One would hope so..  Time, as they say, will tell ... :lol:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Touche, mon ami!

[discograham]

If you phone enough times, they will have to sit up and take notice. Everything these days is monitored for performance figures, so if enough people phone something has to be done

Again, one has to be aware that at some point the police will get fed up to the back teeth with someone calling in all the time and reporting alleged drunk drivers... and before long they would threaten with the whip of wasting police time .. or whatever else they could threaten you with... but I'm jolly well convinced that the one thing they would not do would be to follow these calls up...
Discuss.... :lol:

Or is that just the old bitter and twisted cynic in me... ?

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I dare say that some of the calls received will be malicious ones, but I would have thought that the average plod on the ground would want to get their teeth into a drink driver.
From what I gather most forces now have a dedicated drink/drive hot line or the Crimestoppers organisation. All calls through those I would think are checked then actioned out. Its got to be worth giving it a go. One less drink driver is potentially one less fatality.

[Karen696]

i dont mind being checked but they should make it fair and check everyone, assuming that just van and truck drivers will be over the limit is a bit off

I've seen it loads of times outside biker event (motorcycles not pedal cycles) where they have stopped every bike, gone over it with a fine tooth comb and issued tickets / rectification notices for any 'perceived' faults on the bike - as well as breath-testing.

Meanwhile cars, vans, lorries drove past with impunity.

We were stopped for over an hour and a half at the side of the road in freezing cold February weather after one rally - they had pulled more bikes than they had cops to deal with - in the end Bob got a rectification ticket for a fault that did not exist and a friend got a ticket for a number plate which had been cut down by half an inch to fit the bracket!  

Sent them a copy of the bikes FULL MOT which was carried out on the following day and a nasty letter.  Funnily enough they said we didn't have to send the rectification notice in after all!

The point here is about applying the law to all road users, not a minority.  Mind you I would be happy enough if they started tackling 'travellers.  If they can't give a permanent address, have no documents, or have outstanding fines the vehicle should be confiscated there and then (the cops have the powers) instead the cops round here leave them alone to break the law as and when they want because its just 'too much paperwork'.

OK rant over.

[WishIhadaLandy]

to do with the drug comments mentioned, surely as drug taking is illegal then whatever you are going under the influence of drugs is doen illegally because you have taken that illegal substance :?

Just what i thought, i might be wrong.

[woody]

i dont mind being checked but they should make it fair and check everyone, assuming that just van and truck drivers will be over the limit is a bit off

I've seen it loads of times outside biker event (motorcycles not pedal cycles) where they have stopped every bike, gone over it with a fine tooth comb and issued tickets / rectification notices for any 'perceived' faults on the bike - as well as breath-testing.

Meanwhile cars, vans, lorries drove past with impunity.

We were stopped for over an hour and a half at the side of the road in freezing cold February weather after one rally - they had pulled more bikes than they had cops to deal with - in the end Bob got a rectification ticket for a fault that did not exist and a friend got a ticket for a number plate which had been cut down by half an inch to fit the bracket!  

Sent them a copy of the bikes FULL MOT which was carried out on the following day and a nasty letter.  Funnily enough they said we didn't have to send the rectification notice in after all!

The point here is about applying the law to all road users, not a minority.  Mind you I would be happy enough if they started tackling 'travellers.  If they can't give a permanent address, have no documents, or have outstanding fines the vehicle should be confiscated there and then (the cops have the powers) instead the cops round here leave them alone to break the law as and when they want because its just 'too much paperwork'.

OK rant over.

i was working on the docks at Heysham one june
and the police had a large portacabin set up with pull in area
soon saw why, when the ferry docked and they pulled just about every bike coming back from the isle of man and did spot checks on them

great end to the TT's

[Range Rover Blues]

In their defence I think it's often a response to a percieved risk.  Many bikes at the TT are race bikes and as such not really legal.  many others may have had accidents and be unsafe.  Just because there are a lot of them does it condone breaking the law?

As for pulling up truck drivers/delivery drivers well there agian is a risk, if i worked in an office and was unfit to drive I don't have to but people who drive for a living may choose to take the risk rather than be disciplined for taking a sick day for what is a self-inflicted thing.  If you have done nothing wrong then where is the harm?

[Garin]

i dont mind being checked but they should make it fair and check everyone, assuming that just van and truck drivers will be over the limit is a bit off

Whilst you have a point, they have to target someone, and as van/lorry drivers are on the road all day, doing many miles they potentially pose a greater threat than someone doing a 5 min journey, also a 38tonne artic does a lot more damage than a 1t car!

If a car with a drunk driver does something stupid  at the side of a 44 tonne artic it is just as dangerous if not more so, to much blame is put onto truck drivers these days

[Dirty Gertie]

I have a deal with the lawyers around here.  I don't tell them about the law, and they don't tell me how to run computer networks.  I'm not sure of the precise legislation,

Hmm, maybe that's why the person with the law qualification (ME) was informing you!! :P
The reason why there is no predetermined limit for illegal drugs in the system, IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL: HENCE- ZERO!! :(stoopid):

[discograham]

I wonder sometimes.... really I do..
There are plenty of ways in which the human body can be affected through drugs that are legal.. or through other chemicals .. hell, even diesel on your skin can have a harmful effect... something you may think relatively innocuous can have a dramatic adverse effect on some people...... one has always to be aware of this and think about what drugs you are taking or chemicals with which you are working..
Common sense  

[Thrasher]

Forgive me for coming in late, but it is illegal to eat/drink/use a phone while driving, but NOT illegal to have a lit narcotic in your mouth....I am still stunned at this stupidity.

I know I am straying from the subject matter.....

[Manicminer]

Forgive me for coming in late, but it is illegal to eat/drink/use a phone while driving, but NOT illegal to have a lit narcotic in your mouth....I am still stunned at this stupidity.

I know I am straying from the subject matter.....

I'm sure I heard something on the radio the other day that they are going to extend the smoking ban to cover this.

[discograham]

Hey.. I'm trying to give up smoking but I draw the line now... I won't be told I can't smoke in my own vehicle.. this, if it's true, will cause more accidents when people try to hide their lit ciggy when they see a copper and the end drops off in their lap.... :shock:
Same with phones.. or an apple for example.. the quick attempt to hide the offending item will cause more accidents.... :roll:

[Thrasher]

...so by this you mean I can drink beer AND drive as long as I can hide the bottle??? Get real - cigarettes are a narcotic!!! And not only that - they are bloody on fire while you use them!!!!

There is a breathaliser test, is there an I've smoked 40 cigs while I'll driven 200 miles test? NO THERE BLOODY IS NOT. BOTH are influential on the control the brain has on the body.....unless you are going to tell me sucking smoke in for fun has no narcotic effect?

Of course the govt will NEVER ban them in cars, as they will loose too much revenue. Just like they won;t stop selling alcohol before 6pm, put a curfew on alcohol consumption, and make sure no-one drives again until 6am.....

They make too much on fags, "beer" and petrol to ban all of them......

Of course if we actually HAD A PUBLIC TRANSPORT SYTEM outside of SODDING LONDON then we might actually lower the occurances....

[discograham]

Thrasher.......

...so by this you mean I can drink beer AND drive as long as I can hide the bottle??? Get real - cigarettes are a narcotic!!! And not only that - they are bloody on fire while you use them!!!!quote]



Now, now... don't be silly... :lol:
You must have read what I've said about drinking and driving... I think my opinion is pretty damn clear by now...  :shock:

The point was a general one and ... ciggys aside.. does not mean that I condone the acts I mentioned in my last post...

But that does not change the facts of the matter.. people do try to hide phones etc if a police car passes... and this, in my view, increases the chance of an accident. I don't offer an answer, a miracle cure all for the problem, just stating the issue as I see it...
 :lol:

And the public transport comment... yep.. right with you on that one.. !

[Thrasher]

...if a police car passes....

likelihood nowadays is almost NIL. Unless it is unmarked.

Sad they have ditched real coppers and replaced them with stupid cameras :(

[discograham]

NOOOOOOOOOOO  :shock:

Don't go there.. !

You'le just start me off again.... cameras..  police....

arghghghghgh :lol:  :lol:

[Joe1433]

Have herd Cumbria Police will be doing this after every England Match !!!