just typical of the yanks!!!

[Fingers Mclean]

Hi Guys i have started this thread on another forum just to hear the reactions 8)  8) and it has created some interesting thoughts..
I do think this will create a interesting thread on here and i am waiting for your responce
Iam sorry this isn't a 4x4 or a off roading thread  ...But I thought I would share this with you..
After going through the new movies listing/what's going to come out soon etc..I found this film
with Nick Cage init...WHY!!!!!!  personally I' am a little sickened by it. so I thought I would see what your
reactions are and comments are...    
http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/wtc/
my reaction was this is just typical of the yanks!!!  
 :?  :?  :?

[rangerider]

Should I repeat? Or has everybody already read my thoughts elsewhere? :)

[V8MoneyPit]

Trying my best to be objective (subjective??).......

A bit too recent history for my liking. And the fact that it was actually witnessed by all of us given modern media technology. I think that is the difference. Equally bad things have happened before, but they were not televised globally, so they were never taken so personally by so many people. So we can watch a movie about Cambodia and see it as telling the world what really happened. This is the other way round. We know very well what happened, so a movie seems somewhat crass and inapropriate. Am I making sense? I'm just writing this on the fly, so hopefully it is understandable.

Bottom line, though, if we are honest is that it was only a matter of time before someone attempted to dramatise it. I find it hard to believe that they can make it any more dramatic than it actually was though. I would like to think it will be a total flop as a result.

[Edge]

Now i'm not trying  to say either way whether i agree with the making of this film or not...... but the victims families wanted it to go ahead in order that we don't forget.

I don't think anyone will forget.....I still remember where i was/what i was eating/ my feelings of suprise then sheer horror as i watched the news flash on sky tv that day.

[sleeplessparadise]

I don't think anyone will forget.....I still remember where i was/what i was eating/ my feelings of suprise then sheer horror as i watched the news flash on sky tv that day.

I am with you on this Trug. I remember watching on sky and thinkin someone had put the movie channel on and what the heck was this I was watching. The imagery will stay with me a very long time, I dont need to watch a film to remember.

[ben_haynes]

i have to agree with you all in ways we will never forget that and i also agree that it is too early to be showing it


also i noticed a White Discovery about 1/3rd of the way through just after the Bus with the police officers on and there is a view from the front of a  police vehicle you see an RCN van and it is just in front of that :lol:


Yes i am sad :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[strapping young lad]

thinking about it though if this film had such an effect on opinion here imagine what it was like for the americans esp the new yorkers.

im pretty sure if anyone had anything to say about releasing this it would be them

[rangerider]

Why are some of us disgusted/upset but they are not?

Why was there not a fuss over the movie of flight 94?



Despite having a similar language, the culture the other side of the atlantic is very very different.

I shall not repeat my comments from other forums unless requested to do so as they are quite possibly very controvesial due to a level of personal/professional involvement.

[Fingers Mclean]

Why are some of us disgusted/upset but they are not?

Why was there not a fuss over the movie of flight 94?



Despite having a similar language, the culture the other side of the atlantic is very very different.

I shall not repeat my comments from other forums unless requested to do so as they are quite possibly very controvesial due to a level of personal/professional involvement.

Range rider ..this is a open forum just like the others..If you wish to view (your) opinion like everyone else has and are entitled to.. go ahead...we are here to make our own judgements
and comment that's why i posted the thread  :?  :? fill you boots
 :lol:  :lol:

[rangerider]

I try to stick to one controversy a day :) but here goes ...... cut & pasted from elsewhere.....

My Initial reply to fingers

----Begin Paste----

To be perfectly honest, speaking as somebody who has spent a lot of time working & socialising with americans both in the UK & the US, and who has that day forever in the back of their mind at work, the vast majority of of europeans do not really appreciate just what a blow to the american psyche that day was.

Having lived with terrorism in major cities here in the UK people are far more inclined to take it in their stride, however events here, Omagh, Manchester, Harrods, whilst terrible are not in the same leauge. Imagine if the only time the UK had been targeted directly in any major way was Gibraltar being bombed just once, but never invaded over 60 years ago, and there was no Blitz, Hitler was never as close as just the other side of the channel. Then to have Canary Wharf, Whitehall and Edinburgh Castle targeted.

To be honest, If someone is to find this movie awful, the same should apply to The Dambusters, Reach For The Sky, Ice Cold In Alex, each of which portrays how people cope with adversity in time of conflict. On a side point, in the US now, cops & firemen are seen and protrayed as heros, compare that to here where they are targets.


I apologise if this is too political for this forum.
_________________
New weapon of choice coming soon

------end paste------

[beast5680]

i have to say i am in agreement with rangerider, i dont think the film is any more in bad taste than the one on at the minute telling the IRA story from the view of those in the IRA

[strapping young lad]

is jarhead any different?

[rangerider]

I think jarhead is different.

Jarhead is about a person who chooses to be a warrior and face adversity. Desert Storm was an overt war, planned for, expected and accepted by most, fought by soldiers in uniform to a plan. WTC happened in the back yard so to speak, with no warning, the only uniforms were blue, not green. The targets were not tanks, but desks, not soldiers but accountants.

I appreciate that in many ways this contradicts my earlier post about movies, my point in them was about the heroism of individuals as with the Nick cage character in WTC, I do not feel such heroism was portrayed in Jarhead.

[Fingers Mclean]

\:D/ I knew this thread would provoke a interesting reaction from the members \:D/  :whothedaddy: rangerider you know my responce already so i will not repeat myself..But what a subject :?  :?  still as shocking to this day

[rangerider]

It is, I have been in & out of my trade since my late teens, through many assorted terroist acts around the world, many percieved threats, some minor wars, but that one day turned the world upside down for everybody I know, certainly on a professional level, and as I stated elsewhere on a very personal level for one friend.

I personally think it was THE defining moment of the last 1000 years, JFK, sputnik, the internet, either world war seem pale in comparison to those few short hours that seemed to last an eternity. I think no matter who, what are where in the world you may be your life has been changed by that day.

[yer auld aunt nelly]

You 've got to give it to ollie stone he is a class act all over I still havent forgiven him for the DOORS and i dont even like them.And get some perspective bud I dont think an act of terrorism no matter how well orchestrated is never going to pall the death of 60 million in both world wars(that were fought for the rights of the free world to excist).And terrible as it was im sorry mate but we have been attacked by the disgruntled of the world for longer than I can remember   :roll:

[V8MoneyPit]

I have to go along with the general sentiment of this thread. The actual event will live with us. I cannot, though, see why a film will make us remember it more.

As I said before, the fact it was televised, live, throughout the world made the difference between this act and most others that went before. Do you remember the footage of the assault in the Iranian Embassy in London? At the time the pictures were shocking because we had never seen anything like it before. But it looks tame now. Purely because of the way we saw 9/11. I firmly believe, we would not have the same impression of it had it only been in the newspapers. Then, a film to help us to remember would make more sense.

I'm not saying the film is wrong, just that I cannot see it makes a difference to the way we remember the dreadful events of that day.

[strapping young lad]

maybe the film is also there to make the americans feel that their homeland services (fire dept, fuzz etc) are heroes and work through adversity no matter how sinister..

then again i havent seen the film so i dont know how it ends (although everyone knows the story)

[Fireyred]

Wow, that really hit me, made me feel a little emotional infact.

Am shocked that they have made a film so soon after the incident, also if it's true that the reason was so people don't forget, then that is unlikely.
Millions of people stopped in there tracks that day, in pure shock.

But if the famillies wanted to have the film made to remind them of there lost loved ones and that is there way of coping with the losses, you have to admire there courage.

However, Nicolas Cage is a babe and makes any film worth watching  :oops:  

[laser_jock99]

i have to say i am in agreement with rangerider, i dont think the film is any more in bad taste than the one on at the minute telling the IRA story from the view of those in the IRA

It's interesting to bear in mind most of the IRA funding 1970-1995 came from the US via NORAID (from New York in particular...). When New York gets a taste of terrorism we get a film.

Let us not forget the UK had to put up with similar horror week in-week out for over thirty years (and it's still not over yet)

Over 30 years, the IRA and other terror groups have murdered 302 police officers, 651 soldiers and reservists, around 2,000 civilians....

The yearly death toll:

2006 1 (2)
2005 5 (7)
2004 2 (3)
2003 10 (3)
2002 11 (5)
2001 16
2000 19
1999 8
1998 55
1997 21
1996 18
1995 9
1994 64
1993 88
1992 89
1991 96
1990 81
1989 75
1988 104
1987 98
1986 61
1985 57
1984 69
1983 85
1982 110
1981 113
1980 80
1979 121
1978 81
1977 111
1976 295
1975 260
1974 294
1973 253
1972 479
1971 171
1970 26
1969 16

In addition to those killed there were around 47,000 injured


Shooting incidents 37,000
Armed robberies 22,500
Persons imprisoned for paramilitary offences 19,600
Bombings and attempted bombings 16,200
Arson incidents 2,200

.....and no 'gooey' movies.

[BrumLee]

I remember the day it happened and as I often go to sleep in the morning with the TV on  :shock: I woke to seeing what I thought was a brilliant movie, only to find that it was reality some time later as it was on for ages :oops:  

If the film portrays the courage of the people that lost their lives then it may be a good thing as it goes to show we never know what's going to happen in the next minute after this one. If it's a hyped up film to make folk rich then they should be sent to Guantanamo Bay with the rest of the terrorist suspects for crimes against the world. Profits should go back to the victims of this tragedy.

On a lighter note did anyone notice in the trailer another of Land Rover's finest? Another film to add to the list of "Movie's Starring the Best"

[rangerider]

There is no need for a movie to portray firemen & cops as heros. Drive round almost any neighbourhood, have a look at the firehouse, the police station, see that even at great distances from New York, Washington DC & Pennsylvania people still donate food, give flowers and cards etc.

I suspect the motive behind this movie has little to do with cash, but more to convince/remind those who are beginning to doubt military involvement overseas just why it was decided to send in the troops.

I cynical view I admit, but one I give credence to over purely financial & entertainment reasons. Without a movie or TV show being politically acceptable it is almost impossible to gain the permits & access to locations, the big names to star, and of course the cash to actually produce the movie in the first place.

The recent world cup has brought into sharp relief one of the biggest differences between here & the US. For a few weeks, once every couple of years people fly flags from their cars & houses, until the football competition is over. Many of the people who do this are seen as being from an underclass & almost yobbish element of society. Across the atlantic, cars & houses wear flags all year round, not to support a small minority in an insignificant competition, but to show support for the ideals they stand for all the time.

{off soapbox} (for the timebeing:))

[discograham]

Now I'm going to really upset everyone. Regardless of how shocking and terrible 9/11 was lets get real about it. The number of people killed is irrelevent.. the reason this shocked was because the whole scene was played out on the world stage for us all to see... we heard the recorded phone messages... released on tv and in the media partly to stir up more anger and hate... and regardless of whatever anyone else thinks this kind of thing was always going to happen. The people who carried this vile act out are fanatics, as are most members of their foul religion, and all followers of islam are a danger to us all... that said, this act brought the Americans into the real world, sad though it is as they were like children before, but now, through this baptism of fire they have reached adulthood... perhaps they will behave differently now they have been violated...
But a film this soon... I could'nt care less...! the Americans cant tell a story without bending the truth to suit them or rewriting history in their favour anyway, so why be bothered about another piece of cinema.. thats all it is...  I havent even started on this subject yet but already have said way too much for some...
Discuss...... :shock:  :lol:
Now I'le wait for the flak........

[Edge]

Don't think you'll get much flak.......well not about the yank government bending the truth to suit. We're all just disposable pawns in the governments world........."do you honestly believe mr bush or blair have any concerns when jo public or members of the forces etc get blown up"

Didn't think so.


I'll get me coat.....

[Rich_P]

i have to say i am in agreement with rangerider, i dont think the film is any more in bad taste than the one on at the minute telling the IRA story from the view of those in the IRA

It's interesting to bear in mind most of the IRA funding 1970-1995 came from the US via NORAID (from New York in particular...). When New York gets a taste of terrorism we get a film.

Let us not forget the UK had to put up with similar horror week in-week out for over thirty years (and it's still not over yet)

Over 30 years, the IRA and other terror groups have murdered 302 police officers, 651 soldiers and reservists, around 2,000 civilians....

The yearly death toll:

2006 1 (2)
2005 5 (7)
2004 2 (3)
2003 10 (3)
2002 11 (5)
2001 16
2000 19
1999 8
1998 55
1997 21
1996 18
1995 9
1994 64
1993 88
1992 89
1991 96
1990 81
1989 75
1988 104
1987 98
1986 61
1985 57
1984 69
1983 85
1982 110
1981 113
1980 80
1979 121
1978 81
1977 111
1976 295
1975 260
1974 294
1973 253
1972 479
1971 171
1970 26
1969 16

In addition to those killed there were around 47,000 injured


Shooting incidents 37,000
Armed robberies 22,500
Persons imprisoned for paramilitary offences 19,600
Bombings and attempted bombings 16,200
Arson incidents 2,200

.....and no 'gooey' movies.

That was the kind of thing I was thinking about.

I've never seen a movie to do with an event I have actually witnessed myself, but I remember hearing about the towers had been struck while on the way home from school once.  When I got home, and put the TV on the two towers were smoking and then all of a sudden (live TV this was too!) one of the towers just began to rush down and collapsed.  :shock:

This was the first event that I had actually witnessed myself and 'understood it' (by being able to take in, where as in '96 with the IRA bombing of Manchester I was a bit too young to understand what the bombing was even).

Personally I'm not in favour of a movie being made so recently after such an event.  Even then, I'm not so comfortable about any movies about real events in history unless they're very accurate.  I cannot stand the truth or facts being twisted or changed to suit the money making business, especially when it this history involves many people being injured or even losing their lives.

I may add more onto this later.  I'm still trying to take in that there's already a movie that has been made on this event.  :?

[rangerider]

At the risk of continuing to upset people, possibly both sides of the fence at once........

Now I'm going to really upset everyone. Regardless of how shocking and terrible 9/11 was lets get real about it. The number of people killed is irrelevent.. the reason this shocked was because the whole scene was played out on the world stage for us all to see...

Every death is relevant, be it 2, 200, or 2000. However yes I agree that the fact this all happened on live tv is a reason that shocked. Another reason this was so shocking is because as stated previously this was "in the back yard"

The people who carried this vile act out are fanatics, as are most members of their foul religion, and all followers of islam are a danger to us all...

This could be a first, I could be accused of political correctness!:)

Wrong Islam and its followers/adherents have a track record no better or worse than any other relgion or sect.  At the risk of crossing threads the reason we are banned from so many lanes is because we have been taken as a group to be just like the minority that give us a bad name

that said, this act brought the Americans into the real world, sad though it is as they were like children before, but now, through this baptism of fire they have reached adulthood... perhaps they will behave differently now they have been violated...

Nope, they are being even more childlike, lashing out at any target regardless of validity. Wrecking what they claim makes them great with one hand to become what they claim to be against, whilst the other hand offers out Big Macs & Coca cola.

But a film this soon... I could'nt care less...! the Americans cant tell a story without bending the truth to suit them or rewriting history in their favour anyway, so why be bothered about another piece of cinema.. thats all it is...  I havent even started on this subject yet but already have said way too much for some...

I hate to say it, but it is not just the Americans that bend a story, history is always written to fit the victors perceptions. If Germany had won in '45, the concentration camps would have been a good thing that did the world a favour. Right now history fits America's view of being in the right trying to bring sweetness, light & democracy to the world, should this become an Islamic world in 20 years time America will be protrayed as being the unruly child brought into line.

Discuss...... :shock:  :lol:
Now I'le wait for the flak........

No flack, some points I agree on, some I dont, take your pick everybody and feel free to argue (flames off list please, valid points for discussion only on list)

{sits back, emptys the magazine, reloads & prepares for another salvo}  :)

[rangerider]

I may add more onto this later.  I'm still trying to take in that there's already a movie that has been made on this event.  :?

2nd Movie account on the events of that day, in addition to hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of assorted documentaries and "docu-dramas" on the subject. (here at work I have access to some 8000hrs of video and presentations on the events of that day.)

The flight 94 movie was ignored. Maybe because there were not as many casualties, maybe because having never been broadcast live it never really happened in the eyes of many.

On the Noraid subject. They have always been a joke, the IRA have recieved the vast majority of their funding from other criminal activities for ages. However it is understood that the trickle of Noraid support did almost dry up completely post 2001. Please remember that IRA bombs never made broadcast news in the US as a general rule, so such people could pretend to themselves that their money was doing no harm.

[discograham]

Now it's getting interesting and I've got to go out...  but I'le have more to say   :shock:  in an hour or two...

[Range Rover Blues]

Sorry, as soon as I saw it had Nick Cage in it I lost interest.

Tacky though, don't you think.  Has holiwud really run out of 70s sit coms and drama series remakes that it needs to do this right now?  They havn't even got as far as 'bless this house' or 'are you being served', probably wouldn't get the cat jokes anyway.