Nerc Challenge - Lake District Protest

[Rangie3.0LtrDan]

Ok, there has been lots of talks of protests but now someone has suggested one to me which is a fantastic idea.

As those of you who have been here before know there is a car park at the bottom of Walna Scar Road (at the Coniston end) where the bobble hat brigade park before going walking.  The suggestion has been that one Sunday morning we fill the car park with 4x4 vehicles before they get there and leave nowhere to park.  Also on top of that we would need to boycott use of the village as well as then the businesses will notice and take note of what we are doing.

A date is yet to be arranged for it as dont know what kind of support we would get from drivers.

[Henry Webster]

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand, doesn't this idea just [throw it] people off?  I am not sure that this is doing anything positive for our cause.  I understand your passion to get out there, but I don't see how this can help.  Personally I rather enjoy walking and if I found my local car park stuffed with 4x4s when I wanted to go for a walk, I'd be a bit hacked off.

We need to get people on our side, not make more enemies.

And yes I do own a bobble hat, by the way!

[Rangie3.0LtrDan]

Henry, your comments are noted, but guess what its the walkers that cause the issues.  Its the RA that lobbyed for this bill to come through and they represent the walkers (which is what they say in the papers).  Yes it might annoy people, this is the point, get our side of things heard instead of just sitting there and saying "lets write letters" when they get binned half the time and not even read.

Direct action is whats needed.  We wouldnt be committing a crime, we would be a group of people gathering in one place (like the walkers do) and not going any further cos legally we cant.

[rollazuki]

Its unlikely that Id ever make it to the lakes in the zook, but in spirit Im behind you DiscoDan
We have smiled and been polite and look where its got us. The lanes are gone!

I agree with you Henry, its gonna [throw it] people off, but what the hell, the RA hate us anyway, what are they gonna do, hate us a bit harder......

I think most of them think of us as complete arses, hell bent on destroying the countryside. Maybe if they saw a carpark full of 4x4's, and a bunch of nice, polite, pleasant owners, maybe with some form of handout/flyer describing the problem, they would see differently.

Id wager a fiver that the only ones to cause any trouble would be the Bobble guys.

Id not advocate trying to upset businesses tho, everyone has the right to earn a crust.

What the heck, if we decide on a date, maybe 4x4 groups could do a carpark everywhere. Id be happy to make our point felt in a Derbyshire car park sometime. get some in the dales, some in N yorks.
If it could be coordinated all on the same day, it may make some take notice. Got to be a positive thing though, not just a protest, but a protest with a reason, and a potential solution.

Rolla

[Rangie3.0LtrDan]

Very valid comments there rollazuki.  Some great ideas as well, am going to do some flyers and get in touch with the local Land Rover Owner group and see what can be organised.

[dew1911]

Well if we do one up the lakes I'm sure I would try my hardest to get there, but the Lakes seems to be an area not well represented on M-C so I'm not sure how far we'd get.

[Tyke]

The West Yorkshire lads and lasses may be up that way in the not too distant future.

Maybe we could add to the numbers if dates coincide . . . . . if we ain't driving whats left of the lanes at the time that is.



Always up for a bit of fun and games are our lot  



Problem is with staging a protest is that I reckon we're stuck with what we've got. It's a bit late to protest now when the damage is already done. If we could find a way to reverse the situation that would be far better, but somehow I really do think that is not likely to happen  

[woody]

Well if we do one up the lakes I'm sure I would try my hardest to get there, but the Lakes seems to be an area not well represented on M-C so I'm not sure how far we'd get.

there's a few of us in thre north west
dont forget the northern bog hoppers
i think we could muster a car park full


while we are there we could have a quick ramble as well  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[rangerider]

Whilst I agree with the idea of direct action, I am not convinced that a car park blockage would be the best idea.

when the bobblies roll up, they will see a full car park and move on. Nobody will hear our greivance. They may well just move on, or at best for our cause park closeby on the road casuing an obstruction.

Perhaps a better idea would be a greater number of 4 vehicle convoys travelling around the entire national park at lane speeds ie <10 mph. This would show the entire district that we are there and annoyed at the recent legislation and gain us a much higher profile.

Somebdy local shold prepare a press release and invite members of the press. Also Ideally support and spokespersons should be sought from "recognised" groups such as AWDC, GLASS etc.

As for timing, although a previous cumbria resident I am now in London and as such could not realistically do anyhting at short notice except maybe the aug bank holiday w/e.

The important thing is that any such event is professionally organised and all participants act responisbly, even to the extent that it may be necessary to confront non-event members acting in a way that would show all off-roaders in a bad light.

[spy]

A go slow lakes tour on a bank holiday weekend would cause chaos. :D  Sure to make a point.  We cant drive sensibly on our lanes anymore so we're taking our gentle scenic tours to the tarmac!?  

With a bit of notice and for the right, well organised protest (if I could be conviced there was any point), I would be there!

[rangerider]

I did have another thought on this whilst having a chat @ work.

rather than boycot local traders, make extensive use of them, but in a different way from usual.

Rather than chucking 20 quid in the tank, put 5 in at 4 different places, mention to each that normally you would be spending a lot more but as you have practically been banned from the area there is no need for you to spend more. Use this method for every purchase in the area "normally id be here for a week and spend much more, but now i cant do much round here im only here for a day" No matter what you buy in any national park, make some kind of similar statement.

I know of one campsite in the south west that has lost hundreds of pounds of trade a year from just one group because they cannot have the use of the support vehicle they require to fulfill safety requirements.


----Edit----

Several convoys, using several car parks all the time would give a much higher public profile, however if we could get enough vehicles together to "hijack" somewhere popluar, heck even take over a pay & display in windemere for a few hours.

I would suggest a common "banner", something a4 size everyone could print at home to stick in back windows so people know why we are there. Likewise if brewing up in a car park/layby, explain every chance you get why you are parked up instead of enjoying the view

[tonycougar]

A go slow lakes tour on a bank holiday weekend would cause chaos. :D  Sure to make a point.  We cant drive sensibly on our lanes anymore so we're taking our gentle scenic tours to the tarmac!?  

With a bit of notice and for the right, well organised protest (if I could be conviced there was any point), I would be there!

I like that idea

[rangerider]

Assuming dates can be made to fit in, I am a willing participant. If Aug bank holiday is decided on as a target date we need somebody to volunteer to coordinate the event as far as press, police, and other interested parties are concerned sooner rather than later. I would happily volunteer, but I think somebody more local would be a more sensible choice, from experience the press dislike talking to people from outside ther region even if the issue is local.

It could be that as a matter of convenince the Derbyshire NP would be a better choice for members, but as I understand issues the Lakes Authority have always been the most rigid about restricting motorised access.

10 convoys of 4 trucks will have a far greater impact than 40 trucks sat in a carpark. I would suggest that each convoy makes use of every layby and car park on their meanderings so as not be classed as an unlawful obstruction (any legal types here, or known by members, who can advise on the legality of slow moving traffic?), this will also serve as an opportunity to actually speak to people and explain, hand out flyers etc etc.

[Bulli]

with enough notice im sure i can get 5- 10 trucks signed up for a 'run' in the Lakes. May manage a bit of laning aswell to keep the spirits up. Maybe we could start a new urban laning craze???

[rangerider]

I must admit I was in two minds about laning, let me try clarify


If we lane.....

A (hopefully) large number of vehicles will be hitting the few lanes that are still open, This will cause environmnental damage, and congestion giving weight to all the anti arguments that have lead us to this position. We will also be providing proof of continued usage

If we stick to tarmac......

We will cause more congestion and be seen by many more "non-bobblies". But the downside is the bobblies can say we dont make use of the lanes we have, so if we dont use them we should lose them.

I seem to remember an off-road site near charnock richard services, does anybody know or have contact details for the management of this site, perhaps for use as campsite & evening playground and as a marshalling/control point for starting from?

[Rangie3.0LtrDan]

Thats miles south of the lakes, we are talking about an hour away.  I will look into more appropriate accomodations!

[rangerider]

Was just a thought that passed as I was typing. Been many many years since I got chance to head up to that part of the world.

[Lee_D]

Whooooa! Heads up!


Section 59 also applies to Crusers who use vehicles in an anti social manner.

If some of the proposals come to light as suggested then people could become as popular as 4x4 cruisers and on the sharp end of a sect 59 warning / confiscation of vehicle even without seeing a lane. :shock:

Lee D

[rangerider]

S59 Police Reform Act 2002

States
59     Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
 
      (1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which-
 
  (a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
  (b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
  he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
 
      (2) A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
 
-----------------

Road Traffic Act 1988

 3.    If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.


-----------------


Hence my earlier comments about coordinating with the local Police, and my suggestion to make use of laybys and carparks as often as possible, showing "reasonable consideration" as well as being able to talk with other people in the area.

I think it is a very grey area legally, who hasn't wished that caravan/pensioner/tractor would pull into the next layby and let some people pass, hence my asking about legal situations earlier. This was also part of my thinking behind 4 vehicle convoys, 4 being the number generally recommended for laning, and less likely to attract too much attention on a legal front than a never ending string of motors trundling along slowly.

If we do not show out now, it will soon be too late. The goalposts have already been moved to our detriment once, and each time "Concerned from Tonbridge Wells" writes to their MP we shall lose another lane, even if said lane is hundreds of miles from anywhere that paticular writer is ever likely to go.

Groups such as the Ramblers Association, the National Trust etc (risk of stereotyping here) have a large number of members with a lot of free time to be involved in the action plans of such groups and to write the necessary letters, attend the protest marches etc, and so as such they have a great politcal voice. At the risk of further sterotyping they have higher disposal incomes (a pair of good walking boots to last 3-4 years, £70, a set of decent tyres for us, 5 times that)

A quick look at respective websites shows the following

RA membership  143,000
AWDC membership 2,500
Glass has 1900 Members, and app. 25,000 affiliate members
GLEAM has 1000 members, (no website found, data taken from greenlink berkshire) but more importantly claims 100 MPs as honorary members

On a local level our various clubs and groups are great for dealing with local councils about local lanes, but on a national level we seem to be lacking. Yes we have only ourselves to blame, that is why we should act whilst we still can. We were promised in 2000 that we could apply for status upgrades for rupp to boat, only to be ignored (betrayed?) when NERC came to pass.

I for one will be considering several trips to wales this summer, and pointing out to B&B owners, petrol station managers, shopkeepers etc that NERC will cost them my money.