Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(

[andycwb]

When you realise that the founders of Greenpeace left in disgust after the organisation become subverted by the anti-capitalist movement, it all starts to make sense.

[Jas278]

GREENPEACE , DEDICATED FOLLOWERS OF FASHION,.................So they are fashion police and if they dont like the trends , they will campaign to change them, ..................its all a lot clearer now......MUPPETS

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[Devon-Rover]

mmmm A few more points to raise!

I never said that. Of course 4x4s aren’t the only ones with high emissions. The reason we target them is this – they are a growing fashion accessory that is threatening the trend in emissions reductions. Sometime in the early nineties SUVs gained popularity in the United States, a trend was born that recently reached its apex with almost half US vehicle purchases being SUVs. The result? A steady downward trend in emissions per km in the US fleet became a spike. And with it the attendant climate dangers.

So why don't they put more effort into the campaign into the American compliance to the Kyoto treaty. Which G.W. Bush said America would never sign. If there great leader won't agree to reduce the emissions for the industry do they think that the public will go down the same route and reduce emissions for their cars voluntarily? Then there was the Bonn compliance, But then that needs Russia to come into to line and comply with what is being said.
There is bigger fish to fry in the big industrial nations than just the few who drive vehicles who might emit a fraction of the carbon these factories produce.

Then why are they not actively campaigning and trying to bully all those who travel on aircraft. As the big commercial airlines are the ones who produce the most pollution in the traveling world. Why call all those who use airlines all those horrible names?

No they are picking on the 4x4 as it is a small minority that can be easily singled out and therefore they can be targeted and then victimised!  :twisted:  

And all because of a fashion. Now, that fashion for urban 4x4s crept over the Atlantic, but we were ready to counter it, and that’s what we’re doing. We’re trying to counter a trend that, when unchecked in the US, resulted in higher emissions and greater dependence on foreign oil.  

So maybe not a time to tell them that the Range Rover and the Disco kind of founded the current idea of the SUV  


Just a few ideas to be going on with.

[Thrasher]

Dave,

As someone with a £75,000 RR *AND* an offroader I can see both sides. However I do use my "statement" in the way it was meant to be too....but alas, many do not.

Sadly they eed to attack ALL drivers - not just us. But as the nice lady that was on TV said to me "4x4's are an easy target...."

[rangerider]

I must be missing something.........


If we assume it is unfair to attack us for owning our 4x4s........


what makes it fair for me to be picked on for working and holidaying both sides of the atlantic and relying on another form of transport?

Attacking any particular thing, be it a mode of transport, a religion, a taste in music with the sanction of any government is the thin end of the wedge.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

What an intersesting video.  But are all the other big engined cars going to be targetted, sorry, victimised as well?
So 4x4's are likely to kill more children? I can just see the ad people that greenpeace may have employed tocome up with this spoof advert for the motor show, sitting round a table made from non sustainable wood, in their air conditioned office in central london where all the lights are left blazing at night coming up with "lets say 4x4s kill kids and not people because that has more of an effect" before going off to snort a few lines of charlie. Oh, heaven forbid, I'm STEREOTYPING!
Perhaps that is what GreenPeace are doing.
Cars do not kill people, bad driving does. Every road user needs to wake to that. A person hit by a vehicle speeding is going to die, regardless what type it is.
Gobbing into someones coffee. Clever! What a great way to encourage health. What next? Let's take a s**t in his locker? Really funny.
Parents, educate your children to the dangers of all vehicles on the roads.
Yes, control pollution. What about all the ships that plough the oceans? How much fuel do they use?
What about the stuff that goes into the ocean when the supertankers 'flush out'?
I have no problem with people expressing views, but be fair and unbiased.

[andycwb]

Dont greenpeace realise the earth has been getting hotter (climate change) since the last ice-age

Two weeks ago we visisted the Athabasca Glacier in Canada.  It's the most accessible part of the huge Columbia Ice Fields; several miles across, and a remnant of the last ice age (ice that's meting now is snow that fell during the ice age).  I was close to arguing with the guide that the cause of the glacier receeding wasn't "global warming", but "the end of the ice age".  I didn't want to spoil my holiday by getting into an argument, but it annoyed me all the same.

[Hovis]

From: Mark Davis [mailto:MDavis@apthompson.co.uk]
Sent: 26 July 2006 09:43
To: info@uk.greenpeace.org
Subject: Gas Guzzlers

Dear Sirs

I have just watched your Gas Guzzler video that is currently posted on your website, I was appalled at the irresponsible actions portrayed in it. I’m not offended overly by bad language but I would have been very cross if my children had watched it on what I would have considered to be a safe site for them to view. Someone spitting in to some one else’s drink is not only disgusting and incredibly unhygienic it could quite easily result in legal action being taken. To show an entire workforce victimising one individual in that way is absurd, to have that many narrow minded people in one office is extremely unlikely. To think that people would be feel hatred toward someone because of their choice of vehicle is a little disturbing along with the fact you consider this to be acceptable. Would you condone these types of actions over, or reactions to, his choice of religion? In a world where freedom is, quite rightly, held in such high esteem removing people’s ability to live life the way they want and make the choices they want to make can only have a negative effect.

I own a 4x4 which spends as much time off road as my spare time allows so to be tarred with the same brush I feel is unfair. Also, a number of people in our company drive 4x4’s as it is necessary for their work, driving a BMW full of surveying equipment over a field or trying to get a tonne of kerbs across the formation of a building site in the boot of a Mondeo are not a great ideas. We work in London and many large cities a fair amount so it through necessity that our 4x4’s are there. Our MD drives a Range Rover, again he uses it on site but doesn’t want to slum it, but this does nothing to prove/disprove his views on conservation of the planet, the company donated funds to Danjugan Island amongst other charities.

I would like to know how you and the other anti 4x4 groups have come to the conclusion that they are so bad. I was under the impression that the capacity of the engine dictated the amount of CO2 exhausted, not the amount of wheels driven. Surely cars with large engines produce the same sort of emissions, so why not give them a good slating too? Is it because they are not so much of a minority and it wouldn’t make good business sense to do that? What about 4x4 cars? Do these come under the same umbrella, or is it just the shape of vehicle you don’t like?

I thought the point of Greenpeace was to not only bring dangers to the planet and all of its inhabitants to light, but to find workable solutions. It seems ironic then that nobody took the time to tell the ‘offender’ what he was doing wrong. Who knows, perhaps with a bit of well pitched guidance he may have seen the error of his ways and sold, or even better scraped, or even better still recycled the ‘guzzler’.  All that was actually achieved was bullying, a huge cause of depression and even suicide.

I would happily argue with anyone about the good the Greenpeace have done and the achievements that you have made. However, if this is the way Greenpeace are going to conduct themselves in the future I quite frankly do not want to be part of it. For this reason my partner and I will be cancelling our monthly direct debit and donating the money else where, we do not donate a massive sum but I am not happy thinking that I possibly helped to fund such drivel. I also believe that my father still makes a monthly donation, he too owns a 4x4 and I’m sure that he will cancel his contributions as a result.

Look forward to hearing from soon.

Best regards

Mark Davis
Projects Development Engineer
 
A P Tompson Sports Engineering Ltd
The Courtyard
Kingston Bagpuize House
Kingston Bagpuize
Oxfordshire
OX13 5AX
 
Tel : ###########
Fax : ###########
Mob : ###########
 
www.apthompson.co.uk
 
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are  addressed. If you receive this email by mistake please advise APThompson Ltd immediately by return and destroy all copies. Any attachments should be checked for viruses by the recipient. AP Thompson do not accept responsibility for damage caused by viruses.
________________________________________

From: Lisa Weatherley [mailto:lisa.weatherley@uk.greenpeace.org]
Sent: 26 July 2006 09:54
To: Mark Davis
Subject: RE: Gas Guzzlers[Scanned]

Hello Mark,

Sorry the film upset you so much. It was aimed at city gas guzzlers not farmers or other people who need them for genuine work purposes. It was produced by people inside the advertising industry who normally make car ads. They wanted to do something for us that challenged the whole aspirational nature of 4X4s of giving freedom, sex apppeal, etc etc. It was really just done as a spoof car ad. Some people have said its brilliant, some not. But I respect your views on this and we will take them into account for future work we do on 4X4s.

For more information on why we are targetting urban 4x4s in particular for the sake of the climate please visit our web site at www.choosecleanenergy.com

Best wishes,


Lisa Weatherley
Supporter Services, Greenpeace UK
www.greenpeace.org.uk
________________________________________

From: Mark Davis [mailto:MDavis@apthompson.co.uk]
Sent: 26 July 2006 10:01
To: Lisa Weatherley
Subject: RE: Gas Guzzlers[Scanned]

Dear Lisa

Thanks for the reply but it seems to be some what generic. I’m sure that I’m not the only one who has contacted you about the film but a little more of a response to the questions/points I raised would be appreciated. If that is not going to happen that is fine, but this film was produced to get a reaction and I think that the reaction should be dealt with in a professional manner.

Best regards

Mark
________________________________________

From: Lisa Weatherley [mailto:lisa.weatherley@uk.greenpeace.org]
Sent: 26 July 2006 10:09
To: Mark Davis
Subject: RE: Gas Guzzlers[Scanned]

Hello Mark,

Thanks but please have a read through our www.choosecleanenergy.com web site as the issues you raise are covered there and you might learn some new things too!  I work as part of a small team answering literally thousands of enquiries and through necessity cannot provide lengthy answers to everyone.  So I prioritise answering questions that aren’t addressed on our web site.    Perhaps you could and your friends could donate generously to Greenpeace so we can afford a few more people in our information service!

Best wishes,

Lisa

________________________________________

Hi Lisa

Thanks for the link but unfortunately it doesn’t appear to address all of the points I made or provide answers to the questions I asked. I am already aware of the effects of global warming and the numerous possible reasons for the change in climate. I’m sure that we are not helping with the massive use of fossil fuels but I believe there is truth in the argument that it is part of the planets natural cycle. I’ll agree that these issues are well addressed from your perspective but that wasn’t the question.  My interest lays in the way a certain group of vehicles is being targeted and the method in which it has been undertaken.

I have been happy to donate in the past but, as stated in my original email, that quite simply is no longer going to happen.
 
So to clarify, I’m not questioning your campaign to reduce the burning of fossil fuels. I am questioning in this instance the way in which it has been done, primarily the content of the video and why just 4x4’s and not all powerful ‘Gas Guzzling’ cars.

Best regards

Mark Davis

It's taken me a while to post but I've been having a bit of go too....

[Skibum346]

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[BrumLee]

Perhaps you could and your friends could donate generously to Greenpeace so we can afford a few more people in our information service!

We already do, education in this country is paid for by our taxes, this organisation needs educating    :lol:  :lol:

[Grant]

This anti-4x4 thing has got really boring.

They arent going to change their retarded little minds so f*** 'em, if they want to waste their lives whining about my car thats fine by me!

enjoy your landys!

This anti-4x4 thing has got really boring.

They arent going to change their retarded little minds so f*** 'em, if they want to waste their lives whining about my car thats fine by me!

enjoy your landys!

Well said!

[stefan]

I wonder who put the 'green' in to greenpeace?

Fact: They use 8,500 litres of diesel a day in their ships

Fact: In one year they burn enough diesel to run a Tdi Land Rover doing 350 miles per week for 998 years.

Stef

[bezzabsa]

hmm, maybe i should send them another email saying that i have sold my 4x4 and am seriously looking at a Jag 4.2 ;) think that'd please em!!!

[robpark]

Having started this thread I thought I ought to add a few words...

First off all I have been hugely impressed by the comments and the reasoned arguments that you have all made to Greenpeace  :)  :)

I've been rather saddened by the fact that Greenpeace have chosen not to address the real questions raised by their video, which were (1) whatever possesed them to think it was acceptable to portray viscious victimisation of an individual as a constructive campaign tactic and (2) why they choose to target 4x4 owners exclusively?

I would also add that Greenpeace supporter services haven't even bothered to respond to my original email  :(

My donation is now going to Amnesty http://www.amnesty.org.uk/index.asp

[bezzabsa]

this is why my wifes nan would NEVER give money to Oxfam, she read about the charities and what percent they actually give, oxfam were bottom of the league with something like 0.3p out of every pound actually going to the needy!
green peace were quite low down the table - must be due to those bloomin boats - the french had the right idea!

[Terminus]

I decided to add yet another message if disaproval

Dear Greenpeace

I really should have started this e-mail with ‘Oh Dear Greenpeace”, I have recently viewed your distasteful advert on 4x4’s and was initially speechless.

Now before I start I own a 4x4 (you probably guessed that) and I have an Honours Degree in Environmental Science and Countryside Management (so I’m not ignorant of the facts).

What you portray is a distasteful depiction of bigotry, inciting of workplace bullying and a rather one sided picture of a ‘group’ of car owners whom you have decided to label without clarity or common sense.

I use my car for the purpose for which it was built, I walk whenever I can rather than drive, the emission levels of my car are far below the levels of numerous other ‘groups’ of car owners. I sail which is in harmony with our ocean environment rather than the polluting diesel tanks that travel the globe (I’m sure you can equate with that seeing as you yourselves use gallons of diesel in the name of campaigning)

Your advert sadly says to me ‘We will stoop to any level and stop at nothing to force our opinion down your throat whether or not we have actually thought it through’.

Where is the Greenpeace that had rational and reason, which had respect and dignity?

What I see now is a political organisation (aka business) that fuels hatred (in this case with a distasteful message aimed at 4x4 drivers) that shouts without thinking of consequence (there are those in the world who will blindly believe what you say and imitate) and doesn’t have to back up its lack of reasoning because we are who we are (because your point is flawed, there are far heavier polluters on the roads who drive what they drive simply for status and not practicality, who’s engines pump out far higher emissions than many rather lower emission 4x4s).  

I won’t dive into the realms of mankind’s actual impact on the environment in relation to the actual level of releasing of stored carbon because it would probably confuse an organisation who’s sole purpose now seems driven toward do as I say whether I can prove it or not.

I shall avoid going in depth into natural trends in the environmental cycle which have been at work long before the ant colony that is mankind appeared, or over emphasising the point that mankind has an ill founded belief in its own power “what will you leave for your children?” no you don’t really have that much of a choice “what will nature in all its power leave for you” is more to the point.

Perhaps you should look at the resources Greenpeace expends itself, but no that would be counter productive to your blanket message that you are the defenders of the natural world (a world that defended itself for billions of years before you ever evolved).

In short you like any business exist to make money to fill your own membership quota and financial needs and like many a business have lost track of your original goal and values.  You therefore resort to ill thought out tactics and tasteless discrimination.

From a name that once held respect to a business that now shows disrespect to whom so ever it pleases – deeply disappointing.

I imagine you will have a stock reply ready to blanket people who dislike this particular campaign and await it with a sense of disappointment.

Regards

[rangerider]

I watched Penn & Teller last week take the green lobby to pieces. the person they gave most airtime to from the "greens are talking out their ***" side of the argument was....... a founder of Greenpeace :)

the less said about the people who signed the petition cooked up to ban dihydrous-oxide the better :)

(apparently it can cause excess urintation! - go figure) :)

[dreadnought110]

:shock: just watched the video.The only reply to that is t****rs!!!

[nishikigoi]

Right, let's see a generic answer to this...... :(biggrin):

Sent 21/8/06

Like many others I have been deeply disturbed by your latest campaign, I was stunned to see an old friend in the video....in an office....in the city!

It is a shame that you did not show the full story for the hapless victim in your video, for as I knew him so well I just had to contact him. Knowing him to be of ancient farming stock, I just had to know what had befallen him and his kin to cause this, his tale was a harrowing one.....

Forced to take a job in the city to subsidise his father's family farm that has been hit repeatedly by misfortune and prejudice. Having lost the right to control the badger population in their cattle farm they had to watch as the entire herd fell ill to Bovine Tuberculosis and were destroyed and burnt. As a young man he watched as again they were hit by the threat of CJD and again all their stock was destroyed and burnt.

His fathers heart broken, he had to explain to his son that the farming life was not a secure proposition for raising a family. He also explained that as the compensation offered was such a derisory amount and the CJD scare had hit just as European subsidies had been removed. His only option was to allow a set of mobile phone antenna to be erected, some of the set aside land would be used for lucrative genetically modified crop research and development into baby milk, however over a mile of hedgerow dating back to the dark ages would need to be removed to provide larger crop areas and a efficient harvest. This money would last about three years, but some of the hill side land they owned could be strip mined once the wooded areas had been cut down to make pizza boxes. The old barns too could be converted into trendy apartments, once the Owls had been removed and the bats access obstructed

His son pleaded with him to reconsider, but the practicalities of financial viability were overwhelming unless another way could be found?

So his son, heavy of heart changed the focus of his studies. No longer a student of the local agricultural college, he would now study in accounting to secure a lucrative job and be able to avert disaster for the family farm. Every day he makes a weary journey from Burnham into Slough trading estate, it is not far only 3 miles but culturally a thousand miles from 'home'.

Still he always has the weekends and evenings to enjoy his beloved farm, driving the perimeter to check fences and make routine maintenance of the dry walls they so nearly lost forever, on the weekends he leads a local outreach group by taking disadvantaged children canoeing on the Thames locally, he also takes the farms produce directly to the public and sells in a farmers market from a trailer.

We sit and talk long into the evening about life in the city versus life in the country, we watch the sun go down as the bats squeak their echo location to navigate the barn and take evasive action as the owls glide effortlessly across the yard, looking for an inattentive mouse.

He is little preoccupied making Biofuel from some of the rape seed crop they produce, keeping a low carbon footprint by running their farms oil burning stove on Biofuel as well as running the farm tractor and his 4x4.

I take my leave as he has an early start, a delivery of candles from the glycerine by-product to deliver as well as some salt lick around the boundaries of the farm for the deer.

I tell him I'll stop by again soon, he insists I take his mobile phone number 'just in case', but I've got your home number I say.

He explains that the job is not working out too well, there have been a lot of personnel issues and he has had work load issues within his team. Recently he found some abusive comments had been attached to his jacket, upsetting his six year old daughter as he had not seen them until he got home and hung his jacket up. He is also concerned that there have been other harassment issues with obscenities made towards him and thinks he even caught one of the office staff spitting in his coffee!

I am stunned and ask what action had been taken? None at all he explains, apparently this is considered suitable behaviour and the personnel manager has said she is too busy to deal with this before she flies out for a holiday spear fishing in Australia. Still, he always tries to be friendly and courteous to all his co-workers, but looks forward to the end of the day and smiles every time he picks up his cars keys and sees the 'Superman' key fob his wife gave him as a token of all the hard work and choices he has made, she knows how hard working nearly a hundred hours split between an office and the farm can be.

I leave him and his family, wondering what crime he has committed to be treated in such a tragic manner and saddened by the narrow mindedness of human mob behaviour.

I hope when you next see him you give him my warmest regards and perhaps you could pass the video evidence to the personnel manager at his office, I am sure this would stop the harassment he has endured and be just cause for the immediate dismissal of those involved.

Regards,

Andrew Davies[/i]

Lets see them squirm that!

[Skibum346]

**And the crowd went wild!**

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[C C]

It brought a tears to my eyes... :oops:

[nishikigoi]

It brought a tears to my eyes... :oops:

Bless...... :sobsob:

[att]

Most excellent =D>

[robpark]

nishikigoi, that's fantastic :lol:  :lol: