HUDs

[Evilgoat]

AKA Heads Up Displays.

Anyon know the legal status. My understanding is they are illegal but there are at least 3 cars out there now that use them. Not a hard thing to make and I'm curious to know if I'll get into trouble for using one.

[Terminus]

That depends on what exactly you are defining as a head up display.

Gimme you're definition of a head up display and I'll probably be able to provide an answer in a short space of time.

If you''re talking about a display that (as with fighter jets etc) is transparent in front of the driver in their direct field of vision then the answer is yep it's illegal.

By law there is to be nothing directly in the field of vision of the driver that impairs in any way his or her view of the road ahead - this includes small stone chips in glass hence your car would fail MOT if there were a stone chip in a section of the window directly in front of the driver.

[Terminus]

I should add that if this is the case - road traffic cops will get you into trouble for this - depending on how switched on the average patrol cop is depends on what they do - some know traffic very well some do not - my personal opinion - if it is as described above I wouldn't chance it - traffic cops are generally fair but very rigid when it comes to such things and you may find yourself in a touch of bother.

[Evilgoat]

48x48 or 1" by 1" dotmatrix back projected so its in the centre of the screen just above the bottom, the area the wipers dont normally touch.

[Terminus]

The problem with any light projection on a windscreen is it can be classed as a distraction to a) the driver and b) if visible from the outside other drivers (this is why glowing led xmas trees started to get people in trouble in the festive season)

There are grey areas in the law regarding such things (including the blue led's the local boy racers have on the front of their cars) however a good traffic cop will mosty likely find in the realms of legislation that is the Road Traffic Act 1988 and subsequent ammendments a clause that although will not specify no HUD's or no blue led's for example - will indicate that it is a distraction to the driver and as such poses a danger.

I would say that if you want a display keep it to the dashboard - generally in the eyes of the law anything on the windscreen of a motor vehicle that has the potential to distract the driver is not allowed.

Hope that helps

[rangerider]

Does the current BMW M5 amongst others not have a HUD for speedo? I would have thought that single type approval would have picked up on this. A hud whilst being a distraction does not "obscure" vision as it is semi-transparent, whereas a chip out of the screen cannot be properly seen through.

I am sure somebody far more knowledgable will correct me if wrong :)

There is nothing grey about the boy racers blue LEDS, they are clearly outlawed in the construction & use lighting regs. the showing of any blue light on an unauthourised vehicle has been illegal for many many years. (try since they started putting a blue light on top of Woleslys:) )

[Terminus]

HHmm yep I should have worded that better - The use of led's is a funny one but you are right they are technically illegal in certain circumstances.

yes the showing of blue light to the front can be illegal but led's seldom get dealt with under construction and use.  Thats why there are still too many of them about

You are of course likely to attract attention to yourself with anything blue on the front of your car and start em flashing and you're in deeper water.

Personally my humble opinion is that if it's not white it shouldn't point front (unless you're a road worker - amber etc).

As for HUD's thats just my opinion based on face value. I haven't seen the BMW but it's not so much the fact it's see through that I was considering - its the fact that if its on the windscreen it can cause a distraction (not an obstruction) to the driver.

[Terminus]

Hi Evilgoat

As promised in my very first post - after that little time I've located the legal position regarding HUD's.

Providing the display is not substantially less transparent than the versions now coming out in the new BMW's and imported Corvettes etc then HUDs are not unlawful.
Basically so long as it is clearly transparent and does not impair the driver view it is not unlawful.

I keep re-reading my remarks on blue led's and still don't think I made it clear - hehe so ... here's the exact line on em as per Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 (part of construction and use regs)- as far as displaying blue light to the front they are not illegal they only become illegal in one circumstance  as stated earlier if they flash
But if there were so many as to be dangerous it could technically provide a case but would be an interesting one to prove (that would mean most likely a bank of them across the front which confuses other drivers) If they were dangerous this would not be illegal in terms of construction and use but other legislation.

Hope that helps :)

[Evilgoat]

Hi Evilgoat

As promised in my very first post - after that little time I've located the legal position regarding HUD's.

Providing the display is not substantially less transparent than the versions now coming out in the new BMW's and imported Corvettes etc then HUDs are not unlawful.
Basically so long as it is clearly transparent and does not impair the driver view it is not unlawful.

Hope that helps :)

Luverly.

I shall now try some ideas. If the hud is projected right is shouldnt be visible outside.

Miroring the fonts is gonna take forever...

[Terminus]

Miroring the fonts is gonna take forever...

Good luck  :)

[rangerider]

Hi Evilgoat

I keep re-reading my remarks on blue led's and still don't think I made it clear - hehe so ... here's the exact line on em as per Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 (part of construction and use regs)- as far as displaying blue light to the front they are not illegal they only become illegal in one circumstance  as stated earlier if they flash

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
Restrictions on fitting blue warning beacons, special warning lamps and similar devices
    16.    No vehicle, other than an emergency vehicle, shall be fitted with-


(a)  a blue warning beacon or special warning lamp, or


(b)  a device which resembles a blue warning beacon or a special warning lamp, whether the same is in working order or not.

The important words are "similar" and "resembles"  


Additionally there is a multitude of legisilation regarding the position of an colorus of lights.

Optional lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices
    20.    Every optional lamp, reflector, rear marking or device fitted to a vehicle, being of a type specified in an item in column 2 of the Table below, shall comply with the provisions shown in column 3 of that Table.

If you read through this then those damn washe nozzle lights are illegal as regards not being white, and are more than likely illegal as in not having the relevant british standards type approval

Techincally, many (probably all) of us running fog lights on roof bars are also in breach of these regs! even on green lanes as these are subject to all relevant legislation.

anybody fancying a headache can try http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_1.htm :D

[TimM]

Techincally, many (probably all) of us running fog lights on roof bars are also in breach of these regs! even on green lanes as these are subject to all relevant legislation.

We've argued that one to death many a time, roof lights we have decided are illegal on any and all roads, for off road use only, be they fog lights or any other type of light.

[Terminus]

hehe similar to and resembles are indeed key words but if you read the definition of  "Special warning lamp" and Warning beacon" they go as follows

Special warning lamp - A lamp fitted to the front or rear of a vehicle, capable of emitting a blue flashing light and not any other kind of light"

Warning Beacon - A lamp that is capable of emitting a flashing or rotating beam of light throughout 3600 in the horizontal plane.

Trust me on this one - why you ask - perhaps my introduction http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=27264 might explain it. I'm the man in your mirror lol.

[rangerider]

In my defence........ I was gettin my info from a retired black rat who has issued chavs with fpns for such lighting.

unlikely to be in my mirror, i cant get that fast :)

And at the risk of ranting..... how can anyone be expected to obey lighting regs when those gents in the silver Astras wont?:)

[Terminus]

rangerider

And at the risk of ranting..... how can anyone be expected to obey lighting regs when those gents in the silver Astras wont?

I'm guessing that down there they drive silver astra's then - we of course for some unexplained reason use the ford focus in white and battenburg - not a bad car until you try to respond to an emergency in the estate version!!! - Ever tried manouvering a bathtub down a busy high street, ah all the responsiveness of a hippo that's been released in a distillery and had a few barrels of lunch!

**I hasten to add in case anyone has a Ford Focus I am not condemning it it's just the estate is not a get there very fast and graciously car**  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[rangerider]

Astras for the beat cars, BMW 530D as a general rule for area/traffic cars. with te odd smattering of passat estates (usually K9) and Omegas still used for training @ hendon.

ill remember to be extra careful next time I drive that far north :)

[Terminus]

BMW for the traffic cars eh? hmm we have Volvo V70's and Jaguar X-Types - Our fleet of nice new Range rovers is lovely too but I don't get to even smell the leather interior on those!

[Xtremeteam]

BMW for the traffic cars eh? hmm we have Volvo V70's and Jaguar X-Types - Our fleet of nice new Range rovers is lovely too but I don't get to even smell the leather interior on those!

well.....


knowing the 2 coppers who pulled & booked the stig on top gear they have all sorts of Bm's to drive,have a selection of skoda Vr's on trial a long with some TDI Vw's,also whilst coming back up the M6 from the BB weekend spotted a FQ300 evo in batternburg getting a boogey on through the traffic

[Terminus]

We have a souped up Subaru Impreza turbo but I find that hideously embarassing so try not to acknowledge it's existance most days.

Next we'll fit it with a massive stereo system and prove we can drive up and down the same street waking everyone up and trying to look cool

(technically its for road educations - it's aparently all the boulevard cruisers understand)

[rangerider]

Spotted the met evo on the way back from the BB, damn has that got a low-profile light bar on, cant be more than an inch thick. figured it best to behave mysel' as there was no way i would outrun him in an aged disco with a gearbox about to let go :)  

The bee ems replaced all the vectras that for some reason all the drivers loved. I just never could get on with vauxhall seats for more than a couple of hours driving. I guess they are banking on higher residuals when it comes time to dispose of them.

(disclaimer - I would never condone trying to outrun the law!)

[Xtremeteam]

We have a souped up Subaru Impreza turbo but I find that hideously embarassing so try not to acknowledge it's existance most days.

Next we'll fit it with a massive stereo system and prove we can drive up and down the same street waking everyone up and trying to look cool

(technically its for road educations - it's aparently all the boulevard cruisers understand)

my mate from fife now resides in 'berdeen is one of those boulevard cruisers,

then again you'd prob find me down kirkcaldy prom on a fri night upsetting the yocals

[Terminus]

Yeah some of the Scottish forces have the slimline light bars - we spend too much on the cars we can't afford fancy lights  :lol: It's bad enough trying to get em to pay ovetime hehe.

They are very slim and practically invisible in the mirror until you can read the word on the bonnet of the car behind and see them suddenly light up.

Yeah don't try outrun our Focus estates cause we'll erm .... look silly - we don't chase anyway these days we just get a look at your face, your reg and then drop by when you're having dinner to see if we can cause indigestion  :lol:  :lol:

[Terminus]

my mate from fife now resides in 'berdeen is one of those boulevard cruisers,

Poor fella, I'll bet he's been shuffled along by me at least once - I tend to have a cheerful disposition and ask nice jokingly friendly questions such as "please could you remove you're tinny japanese toy car from my double yellow lines - oh and the cycle lane"

We now of course have the power to take possession of the car if it is considered to be driven in an innapropriate manner or be causing a nuisance to others - I can fully understand people wanting to meet up and chat and I'm not against it but racing up the street is not on my acceptable list lol - I've seen a few cars on their roofs because of a driver error whilst "definately not racing"

Theres no harm in liking cars and meeting up and chatting and showing off your car but - I don't wanna tell their parents they are in hospital or worse. Such is life though.

I used to chat to a few mates down the promenade in Kirkcaldy when I was a lot younger  :lol:

[Terminus]

Lol almost makes me sound like a grumpy old man huh? I'm not honest  :lol:  :lol: I'm a grumpy not quite old but not really young man with a sense of humour only I understand. - I'm just misunderstood  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

LOL funny this topic started as HUD's and it kinda went off at a tangent whoops