Series III Starting Issue

[wetnwild]

Hi guys and gals,

A slight technical hitch here, my new (new to me but 24yrs old) Series III won't turn over anymore.

Picked her up from where I bought her yesterday afternoon, drove her 3 miles to the local petrol station, put 32L of Diesel in her and then tried to turn her over. Nothing, not even a click from the solenoid.

Any suggestions?

It's coming upto the weekend and I'd like to get Maddy (nicknamed the S3 Matilda and shortened it to Maddy already) out on a green lane event this Sunday. Any help would be muchly appreciated.

Cheers,
wetnwild.

[Canada Al]

The first thing is to find the problem . Are the battery connections good . Is the battery dead ? do you have any ignition lights on the dash ? does the starter run if you manually operate the solenoid with a large screwdriver .
I am guessing its a battery, starter or ignition switch problem . wish I could come and have a look to telll the truth . Two landrovers in storage back in England for two years now .  
Give us any info and symptoms you can . .......Al

[wetnwild]

Hi Al, thanks for your reply.

The first thing is to find the problem/

Are the battery connections good?  Yes
Is the battery dead? No
Do you have any ignition lights on the dash? Yup, the Oil Pressure light and the green one.
Does the starter run if you manually operate the solenoid with a large screwdriver? Not sure how to do this - any clues?

I am guessing its a battery, starter or ignition switch problem.  Battery is fine, the output is 12+ve both with ignition off and on.  All ancillary equipment works fine too.

Wish I could come and have a look to telll the truth. Two landrovers in storage back in England for two years now.  You're more than welcome to fly over!  lol.

Give us any info and symptoms you can...  Nothing more to say really, except that when unloading her off the recovery truck and letting her roll down the ramp, she'll quite happily bump start so the engine tickes over fine once started.

Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Nick.

[wing nut]

you might find its the solonoid on the startermotor...if its not clicking ,first check the wires are connected securely ,oh and have a look around for a cut off switch in the cab just in case you played with some thing you shouldnt have .. you never know the old owner may have installed his own anti theft device :D

[TechnoTurkey]

Sounds like the solenoid to me.

Use a jump lead from the battery positive to the connector on the right hand side of the solenoid (cable goes from this to the starter) and see if it turns over.

If it does then swap the solenoid for a new one, cheap job and takes 15 mins.

I had to do this a couple of weeks ago.

[wetnwild]

Took your advice TechnoTurkey, and then went a step further and bypassed the ignition key dropping battery power straight to the upper right terminal on the solenoid.

Started first time!

I don't think the solenoid is in a state of repair - I'm thinking there is a loose wire between the ignition barrell and the alternator.  ANybody know the path of the red/white cable?

Cheers for all your help so far guys.

Nick.

[hobbit]

On the solenoid there is a light load wire, the switching wire for starting, not sure of the colour off the top of my head

try shorting a wire from the pos on the battery to this spade connection, if it starts ok it a fault between the solenoid and the ignition, you may have a loose wire on the back of the ignition barrel

Where are you?

[hobbit]

Further to the above, looks like your problem is with the red/white wire, this is the switching wire from the ignition barrel to the solenoid for the starter, if its loose there will probably be the problem

[wetnwild]

Hi there hobbit,

I've tried that - effectively bypassing the ignition key unit?  Yeah, that started firsti time.  Have just checked continuity on cable between solenoid and the key unit and that wire is fine (it's white/red).

Have semi taken the dash apart and made sure all the cables on the back of the ignition key unit are firmly seated and they are all indeed.  It would seem to be something wrong with the Ignition Key?

Am I right in saying that or is there something else that I have missed?

DO these units go wrong every now and again?  The thing I find strange is that the ignition works ok in all other respects - I put the key in and the steering lock comes off and then twist and the dash board lights up.

Help, Please, I am so puzzled!

Cheers,
Nick.

PS.  15mi South of Reading in Berkshire.

[hobbit]

The elctrical block on th eback of the ignition block is I believed held onto the unit with one or more small grub screws

try moving the back where the electric wiring is by rotating one way or the other against the barrel unit

Normally they are held in place and when removed you can start the vehicle by inserting a scredriver in the socket where the back of the steering barrel lock sits

[hobbit]

Here is a unit off an rangy, basically the same as the s3, the connections are riveted, some of them are soldered on on other models, there is a small screw  on the unit to the left of the white plastic block on the gray cover, this can come loose or out and the block can twist out of line or away from the barrel

hope this helps

[wetnwild]

Evening All,

I've just had my first lesson in hot wiring a car - quite interesting to be honest but doubt i'll ever use it again.

So where am I now?  Well i've taken all the connectors off the back of the lock unit, cleaned them and put them back on - one was looking to be decidedly dodgy so crimped on a new spade connector.  Still the same, nothing happening apart from the lights turning on - and now i've got another problem (more of that in a min).  I have had a look at the unit as you said in your last post hobbit and the grub screw is firmly located and wouldn't tighten anymore.  So i'm resuming that's all good.  Still Puzzled but am guessing that a trip down to the spares shop will be next in line.

The other problem - my charge light has seem to stopped bieng bright and just glows a dim red when I turn the key now.  I have made sure that all connections are tight so there isn't a reason for it to be doing what it's doing unless i've missed something else. Hints?

Ta for your help...
Nick.

[hobbit]

Its starting to sound like the contacts in the electrics block are breaking down then, try spraying some electrolube or wd40 into the wire block and work the key backwards and forwards

See if it cleans the contacts up, you can hot wire the vehicle quite easily now though just need a wire from a live feed going into the bak of the barrel through a switch and back onto the red/black wire, when you flick the switch it will mimic using the key to turn the starter

obviously you will still need you keys in the lock to unlock the steering

[Canada Al]

Damn this time delay . I was going to the solenoid next .  :D  Sounds like you have all the info you need now .
By the way , to bypass the solenoid you connect the two large brass ( or is it copper ) bolts with a large screwdriver . If you use a little one it will melt . you just need to touch the two at the same time for a second to hear if the motor runs . Be carefull not to weld the screwdriver to the sump or exhaust pipe  . On second thoughts don't try this at home , it does take some practice .  :shock:

[CanIBeFrank]

The other problem - my charge light has seem to stopped bieng bright and just glows a dim red when I turn the key now. I have made sure that all connections are tight so there isn't a reason for it to be doing what it's doing unless i've missed something else. Hints?

Is the bulb holder pushed firmly into the holder (the tube that holds the bulb and conection) if its not all the way in it may not be very bright as the light will be shining on the inside of the dash not the small ruby.

[hobbit]

Gone very quite on this thread, its either been fixed and he's out playing, or its been scrapped  :lol:

[wetnwild]

Hi guys,

Soz about that - work got in the way (damn it!).

Update:  After extensive taking apart of the dash board and a fair bit of re-wiring to the whole interior (it was a right mess and what have you) I have finally given in and made a workaround.

It would appear the ignition barrel is deffinatly not making the connection through to the solenoid.  I've wiggled the cables, played with the key and switching unit and nothing.  (just keeping an eye out on ebay now for a complete unit to appear then i'll restore it).

At the present time, I have a push-to-make switch (£0.79) from Maplins that is operated without the key for the time being.  I just have to remember to put the steering lock on so it can't be stolen easily.

The charge light on the other hand was as hinted above.  I had knocked the lamp out of the holder and it was lighting up the rear of the petrol guage nicely! lol.

Thanks for all your help guys...

[hobbit]

Sounds like a typical landy, thats how they were wired in the earlier models anyway :lol:

Is there power going from the back of the switching wire to the solenoid, but not arriving at the solenoid, if so just replace that wire
 
Or is it a case of the back of the switch/contacts not sending the voltage down the wire from it

The replacement units are not that expensive

I rewired one which didn't have a steering lock on, directly to a key switch which I fitted onto the dash, and worked it from there, still going now as well, as long as you fit a steering lock/bar you can be as safe as they can from being stolen