Rear recovery points

[Jimbo]

Which is more preferable for a rear end recovery point - JATE rings or one of those 'flat plate with a hoop on it' things that bolts to the crossmember ?

If it's the plate & loop thing (sorry, don't know the tech name  :oops: ), is it a straight bolt on, and can you fit them to Td5's ?

Tks

[Eeyore]

A NATO tow hitch also does a fine job, and doubles up as a handy tow hitch also.  

But to answer your question, either should bolt straight onto the TD5 x-member. The loop type jobby will go where the NATO jaw fits slap-bang in the middle.

Jate rings are good, but often get buried when you need 'em the most, which makes attaching your recovery strop / winch cable etc a bit of a bind.

HTH
cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Jimbo]

I'm not entirely sure what a NATO jaw is - but if it's what I think it is, you couldn't tow a trailer with a standard hitch (ball)...or could you ?

I might remove the plough (towbar) from the 110 for normal use, and bung it back on if and when needed - hence the need for something else to attach tow ropes to.

[Guy90]

My own opinion would be the jate rings on the basis that they are attached at a strong part of the chassis and will divide the forces that result while pulling (especially if you were using a kinentic rope). With a bridle the force would be split evenly down the chassis rails rather than against the rear cross member.

I used a NATO hitch for a number of years without any problem.

However the recovery point you are considering is probably going to be man enough for the job providing your cross memeber is in good condition and you fix the recovery point with some sort of backing plate behind the cross memeber to help take the loads. Otherwise you will rip the recovery point out by the bolts and most likely take a large chunk of cross member.

I have seen even good condition cross members rip off though. Another consideration is the quality of the parts. There are some poor quality jate rings out there.

IMHO it could be said that jate rings are more suitable in a snatch type of recovery and a rear recovery point in a more controlled (like winching) recovery.

Alsways remember that the least number of metal to metal links the better off you are.

You could do what I've done and have both!!

What ever you do, check the rear of chassis to make sure its as solid as you think it is.

Hope this helps.

[Jimbo]

Guy - got any pics of your rear end ? (the 90's that is   )

Tks

[Guy90]

I'm not entirely sure what a NATO jaw is - but if it's what I think it is, you couldn't tow a trailer with a standard hitch (ball)...or could you ?

I might remove the plough (towbar) from the 110 for normal use, and bung it back on if and when needed - hence the need for something else to attach tow ropes to.

The NATO jaw is the military tow hitch. Very useful as it swivels and has a locking jaw. However rubbish for towing a caravan.

You could compromise by fitting an adjustable hitch with a ball and a pin. You could then use the ball for towing and the pin for recovery. If you have enough adjustment then the whole thing can be moved up while off road and not act as a plough. It would have the added advantage of a straighter pull on the pin during recovery as it would be level with the chassis and less likely to bend.

Sometihng heavy duty would do. I had a 110 with such a set up which had a previous life with Severn Trent Water.

Advantage of the pin is the rope won't slip off like it can on a ball.

[Guy90]

Guy - got any pics of your rear end ? (the 90's that is   )

Tks

Not at the moment as I haven't put the hitch on (job for this weekend). Will post one up when the job is done.

[Mace]

The return of Guy90, AKA Guy110, AKA Guy90  :lol:  Welcome back Guy, enjoying the mean machine ?

[Hightower]

At Billing, Discoparts were selling recovery points that were essentailly big bolts, that went through the high lift jacking holes on the rear x-member, with shackles on them.
A fairly simple solution, but I have not seen them used in anger yet (although they are said to be used on a few challenge type vehicles).
I'll see if I can get a pic for you.

BTW, nice to see you back Guy (saw your old 110 the other day sitting in Chris's yard - you gave him a good deal there)  

[Guy90]

At the risk of hijacking this thread!!

Mace,

The 90 goes well. some bits have come off and some bits have been added. A few plans over the coming months.

Simon,

With what is planned for the 90, Chris and I should come out pretty equal. He said you had been round.

[Jimbo]

Cheers Guy & Simon,

I'll wait for your pics.

[snezza69]

Here is the NATO tow hitch on mine.

[DaveDavies]

Fuel tank is in the way of me fitting rear Jates to my TD5 90 :(

Not happy that there's much to the rear crossmember on a TD5, particularly as the tank prevents a though fitting and spreader plate...

[Range Rover Blues]

Thing is JATE rings fasten tot he tow bar stay mounting points anyway.  Unless you are doing snatch recover then these eyes are rated in excess of 6 tonnes, just how heavy is your landy :shock:

JATE rings do tend to be in the mud when you get stuck but the little flat plates are there to hold your LR to the car transporter, use them for heavy recovery at your peril, they bend and the bolts they are on will snap, worse still they are only drilled to 10mm (as is the standard tow bar) but the chassis will take 12mm bolts, as do your JATE rings.

[Jimbo]

OK, excuse the ignornance - seeing as they use the same (?) mounting points, can you have JATE rings and a tow bar fitted at the same time ?

[Guy90]

OK, excuse the ignornance - seeing as they use the same (?) mounting points, can you have JATE rings and a tow bar fitted at the same time ?

Yes. I have at the moment.

[Ben]

I had Jates on the back of the 90, and intend getting some for the 110 when I finally find one I like enough!

To prevent the "scrabbling" under the vehicle in the mud, I tended to attach the (tree) strop (used as bridle) and rope before doing anything where I thought I'd get caught out. Having a truck cab (and latterly a soft top) of course made this easy, as I just fed the rope into the back of the vehicle. I guess a roof access ladder would be a suitable rope "holder"!

If you are getting any Jate rings though, make sure they're suitably rated. A 10 tonne rope and strop set up is no use if the jates are only rated to a tonne each!

Cheers

Ben

[davidlandy]

I have got both jate and a plate with a loop on it on the rear Xmember - hardly ever use the jate rings as somebody said they are awkward to get too when stuck in many instances.  the loop was a great investment and if its properly put onto a good xmember it will be adequate for what you want.  

the pic below shows the back end of my 90 and you can just make out the rings etc.

another thing to note about jate rings is that you should really have them not fully tight so that you can gettoff the shackles after a recovery easily - but if they are allowed to move then a shackle could quite easily dent the chassis around the jate ring in  a recovery situation.

hope this helps

[dew1911]

Here is the NATO tow hitch on mine.

So that's a NATO hitch. I'd heard so much about them but never actually seen one. They work like a normal towbar as well? and how much is one?

[Jimbo]

So that's a NATO hitch. I'd heard so much about them but never actually seen one. They work like a normal towbar as well? and how much is one?

No they don't - that's the problem. You can only tow military style trailers with them (the trailer has a loop hitch, instead of a the standard ball-receiver thing).

Dunno if you can get a removable (without having to get the spanners out type) NATO hitch, as then you could have the best of both worlds, the NATO for a rear recovery point, and a standard ball or ball & pin for towing.

[Ben]

You can get a combination hitch which works as both a NATO and a standard ball hitch.
One of the members on here had one (Andy.). Have a look at his webshots page linked to via the "www" link - the "My Sankey Trailer" album's got a couple of pictures of the hitch unit.

I don't think it'd be much use in this instance though! I'd be tempted to spend the "few" quid on a couple of decent Jates and use the holes left by the lashing eyes when you remove them. This shouldn't cause any disturbance to the tow bar.

Cheers

Ben

[mmgemini]

Why not fit a Southdown tank guard and have the best of all worlds ??

[Bush Tucker Man]

Why not fit a Southdown tank guard and have the best of all worlds ??

I want one, but I've got to justify it to SWMBO, as she made me sell my trailer a couple of months ago (it was an Ifor-Williams as well :x  :x )

Plus we (she :roll:) px'd the BWSOW for a 'Posh-PortaCabin', so really I've no real need for a towbar, but I so want a SouthDown & tow-pack :D