4x4's and dangerous blind spots

[MrTFWitt]

More ranting at Reuters slating 4x4's for having A-pillar blind spots.  I suggest the researchers should have a closer look at the outgoing Ford Galaxy and its derivatives too.  You could hide a transit in that blind spot.

They make no mention of the elevated driving position giving better visibility of the road ahead either.  
If theres a missed opportunity to have a poke a people driving with blind spots why not take on all the people with an after-market Sat Nav stuck to the windscreen in the primary swept area ?

Has it always been like this for 4x4 owners ?

[Eeyore]

And don't forget that 4x4 generally have larger wing mirrors than cars. More vertical windscreens reduce blind spots too.

Deary me, Reuters really don't do their homework, do they  :roll:

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[muddyjames]

and you can easily hide a car in the blind spot in a corsa van behind that a pilar and wing mirror.

Why cqnt they get on with slating something worth while instead of us lot with cars we use as hobies and for most of us use to do the work they were designed for eg off road and towing.

[gtomo2]

oh well no chance in my truck then as the mirrors can hide both lanes of a roundabout and if a small car is infront of me i cant see it. plus you can hide a transit van in the passengerside blind spot. but at the end of the day all cars have blind spots think its just another lets pick on the 4x4 owners again :roll:

[Range Rover Blues]

The big blind spot is right in front of mine, I know this because it's like the thing is ******* invisible, no-one sees it coming.

[hobbit]

If you have ever driven a vauxhall Meriva or Zafira, these are great examples on what they are on about, the front pillars on these are horrendous, and you really have to look round them its so easy to miss something on the road

4x4's?  I find that they are much better than most vehicles

[V8MoneyPit]

And what about that simple thing called 'looking'? When will they suggest that blind spots just mean that drivers have to work a little harder to observe the road?

I say it time and time again, vehicles are inanimate objects and as such are never dangerous in their own right. They only become dangerous when you put a driver behind the wheel.

Of course, cars should be designed ergonomically. They are, after all, simply to get humans and all their clutter from A to B. The less obstruction to vision that is designed into a vehicle, the less chance of the idiot behind the wheel not seeing the motorcyle, etc. But if the person behind the wheel wasn't an idiot in the first place, it wouldn't be an issue.

...... Take deep breath..... and calm.......  :roll:  :lol:

[SixPot]

I heard this on radio 1 thismorning. Have already put a complaint into BBC complaints department for putting out this rubbish. I've requested that they provide me with a reply

this is what I sent to them

I was appalled today at the emotive story regarding the blind spot caused by A pillars. The language used inferred that 4x4 were much worse than ordinary cars, saying that you could not see a whole group of children. In my opinion this language only adds more hype to the anti 4x4 campaign that is continually put forward by the media.
I understand that time is limited in bulletins but I feel the story was particularly lacking in fact and grouped 4x4 as a single type of car rather than individual models. I compared my own car which is a volvo v50 to various 4x4 while on the m4 today and realised that the a pillar in my car is larger (and hence more restrictive to view) than a Land Rover defender, Toyota Rav 4, Discovery 2. So which 4x4 were the worst offenders? As for not being able to see a group of children, perhaps this statement should have been qualified. When on the inside lane of the motorway in my car (Volvo v50) the A pillars restrict the view so much so that the blind spot engulfs a ford mondeo in the outside lane or a VW polo in the middle lane. How does this compare to a group of children?

I would be interested if you could provide the details of the report used to run the story and hope you would share more of these in future rather than pandering to a growing movement fuelled by a vocal minority aimed at restricting other peoples choices.

[Henry Webster]

Another thread on this here http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?p=294853#294853

I've put my thoughts on their - very disappointing.

H

[bezzabsa]

If you have ever driven a vauxhall Meriva or Zafira, these are great examples on what they are on about, the front pillars on these are horrendous, and you really have to look round them its so easy to miss something on the road

4x4's?  I find that they are much better than most vehicles

yes i can agree with that - we had a zafira for 12 months and the blind spots were terible! also the Volkswagon Touran - by contrast the 110 is like being in a bubble - good all round visability.
and i agree with trucks having HUGE blind spots - especially the 4 series scania - like i drive , a pillars on that are terrible on islands

[steve_h]

For a start I don't even believe the research. How can you have a variation from 4.5M (worst) to 0.3M (best). Going on that, Audi A4's must have drinking straws for A pillars. I wonder if they are age equivalent vehicles being tested? If you put a 1st generation A4 against a Discovery 3 then there is bound to be a difference, but what about the same A4 vs an age equivalent Disco 1 or 2. All modern cars are guilty of bigger blind spots, not just 4x4's - Why, because of modern safety legislation requiring better crash protection. You can't have it both ways!

You can tell its a biased report with the way they pull in several other 4x4 so called safety issues just to back up the first one. All of them are out of context and not backed up with real world figures.

Steve.


[/quote]

[steve_h]

I've just googled for the research:

http://www.autoglass.co.uk/a_spot/

Read the Autoglass report front page, it doesn't even mention 4x4's or in fact any other vehicle type. They are simlpy highlighting a problem with modern cars (which I do agree with) and trying to get the regulations updated.

The whole thing's twisted about by Reuters, Sad they've got no real world news to write about. I'm sure I could find some.

Steve.

[Rich_P]

I have to admit, having reversed a OneTen and 110, and also having reversed my father's Mercedes-Benz (1992 230TE), the OneTen and 110 (one a SW, the other a CSW) have by far worse visibility than my father's car which is longer than both.

Initially I was led to believe visibility was okay in the OneTen/110, but after having driven them and reversed them, and also having had to reverse my father's car, it's quite clear to me how appauling the vision is in comparison.  So their report does hold some truth I think.

However, by no means am I saying that this is not the too-common biased reporting we are getting.

[AbyssDJ]

the thing is though rich.. the end of where you can see to in a 110 is pretty much the end of the 110. if something disappears behind the back door when you're reversing, then you're likely to be too close.

i find reversing in our 110 easy as anything... i have to reverse it up a drive thats only about 1.5ft wider than it every day, with a wall at either side, neither of which are straight

[Rich_P]

Except I was talking about visibility comparison, not if what you can see if enough to reverse the vehicle okay.  I managed fine with both Land Rovers that I had just previously mentioned, but I did notice a severe lack of visibility compared to my father's car.  That's all I was saying.

[Disco_Al]

i have to drive a bloody transit connect for work every day and i have to pysically move my torso about 3/4 of a foot to see round the pillar!!

Al.

[dreadnought110]

:shock: And don't you hate it when you have those day's where your car become's invisible!!! :(

[jjsaul]

Out of all the things ive driven i find that my RRC is about the best for visibility both forwards and backwards  :!:  :D

[Rich_P]

Out of all the things ive driven i find that my RRC is about the best for visibility both forwards and backwards  :!:  :D

Having sat in the driver's seat of your Range Rover, James, I think that's a fair comment because your Range Rover has similar visibility to my father's Mercedes!  

[jjsaul]

Out of all the things ive driven i find that my RRC is about the best for visibility both forwards and backwards  :!:  :D

Having sat in the driver's seat of your Range Rover, James, I think that's a fair comment because your Range Rover has similar visibility to my father's Mercedes!  

Small pillars, lots of glass and its pretty square...its amazing the gaps you can get it into / through

[laser_jock99]

4x4 are among the worst....how on earth can they draw that conclusion in a total of 20 (yes just 20 cars) only of which was a 4x4!

http://www.autoglass.co.uk/a_spot/a-spot_methodology_and_vehicles_used.asp

[DaveS]

Out of all the things ive driven i find that my RRC is about the best for visibility both forwards and backwards  :!:  :D

I agree JJ they are very easy to drive, the door pillars are quite slim and the corners are easy to see with short front and rear overhangs plus tow bar lets you know when to stop!!  :shock: (joking!!)

[V8MoneyPit]

I have to admit, having reversed a OneTen and 110, and also having reversed my father's Mercedes-Benz (1992 230TE), the OneTen and 110 (one a SW, the other a CSW) have by far worse visibility than my father's car which is longer than both.

The report is about A pillars, not B or C pillars so reversing is not part of their equation. Purely visibility past the windscreen pillars.

If they were comparing rear quarter visibility, then many 4x4's would come off worse as you rightly suggest.

[Rich_P]

Oh, okay.  My bad.

[jjsaul]

Out of all the things ive driven i find that my RRC is about the best for visibility both forwards and backwards  :!:  :D

I agree JJ they are very easy to drive, the door pillars are quite slim and the corners are easy to see with short front and rear overhangs plus tow bar lets you know when to stop!!  :shock: (joking!!)

And a winch bumper on the front  
(says he with a bent fairlead  :shock: )

[T30CDB]

I drive an ex post office vauxhall combo during the day and sometimes at night and this has a far greater blind spot caused by the a pillar than my defender fitted with a safari snorkel. Also our two lorries at work have wing mirrors that can block out a whole car on a roundabout if your not carefull. Pick on somebody else for a change!