Standard 300tdi intercooler

[Terry.J]

Has anyone played around with the airflow through a standard intercooler and got good results. At present i have moved the horn & the oval badge to the other side of the grill and have also made an angled deflection plate mounted inside the grill which helps scoop more air in from the rad side. Although i have no way of measuring any gains it does appear to be running smoother and slightly better mpg (was getting 25-26 now around 28mpg).

Next thing i am looking at trying, is to open up the fan shroud just behind the intercooler as this looks to me like it could be restricting the airflow. this mod could possibly also help cool the turbo and charge pipes.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this or other tips(i know the best thing to do would be to junk it an get a bigger one, but can,t afford it) or has anyone opened up the shroud, if so, did it help.

[white90]

the shroud is there so the fan draws air through the intercooler even at offroad speeds removing it IMHO would have the opposite effect of what you are after.
if you want a bigger intercooler but don't want to spend the ££ look around a scrap yard here are loads that can be brought cheaply and modded to fit.
I have an Allisport one and with other mods/tweaks the 90 performs well and rtns 24mpg which all in all isn't bad really
as it weighs 2108kg

[Guardian.]

you are not going to 'tune' your engine and improve fuel economy, my disco 300tdi goes like the clappers, bearing in mind it has 33 inch tyres also, but only does 20/21mpg.
messing with the intercooler alone will not change much, if anything, it just cools the air, the more coolair(bigger intercooler)the more fuel you can squirt in.
beware of tuning an older highmileagemotor, as everything is worn over the years / miles. when i first did mine a couple of months ago, we had it running fast, but the fuel pump blew, expensive replacement!

[mmgemini]

I have an Alli-Sport intercooler fitted in place of the original.
Fuel pump optimised and new hoses.

Yep it has a nice bit of go about it.Well as much as you can expect from a Defender 110 station Wagon.
Oh yes...It returns at least 26mpg with the roof rack and top box fitted.

[Porny]

you are not going to 'tune' your engine and improve fuel economy, my disco 300tdi goes like the clappers, bearing in mind it has 33 inch tyres also, but only does 20/21mpg.
messing with the intercooler alone will not change much, if anything, it just cools the air, the more coolair(bigger intercooler)the more fuel you can squirt in.
beware of tuning an older highmileagemotor, as everything is worn over the years / miles. when i first did mine a couple of months ago, we had it running fast, but the fuel pump blew, expensive replacement!

I disagree...

On a Petrol:
A tuned engine, if done properly could actually get mpg than a non-tuned version.
When you tune an engine properly, you will increase both torque and bhp.. thus increase power levels.

Increased torques, will at times, allow you to pull a higher gear meaning that the engine is under less load and at a lower rpm.  If driven carefully, this would improve mpg.


On a Diesel:
On a tuned diesel, for a given speed you will be using the same amount of fuel – but at a different throttle position.

As a broad example, if  before you would do 50mph at half throttle, with a tuned diesel it might now be at 1/3rd throttle, as tweaking the ECU (or the pump) simply rescales the throttle pedal  (i.e. more fuel at a certain throttle pedal position and/or at a given boost pressure)

However, obviously at full throttle it's delivering more fuel than it would have originally.

So, if you drive exactly the same speeds as before there would be no effect on fuel economy…. However, in reality you will use the extra performance some times!!! – so fuel economy will be 2 or 3mpg worse (typically)


Ian

[Magnum335]

I speak form experience when i say intercoolers and pump tweaking DO increase fuel economy, although all of what ian has said is correct, what about the ability to shift up earlier?
Why have i experienced nearly a 5mpg increase in fuel economy? Bearing in mind i drive very gently, and tootle along at 50-55.

[mmgemini]

I speak form experience when i say intercoolers and pump tweaking DO increase fuel economy, although all of what ian has said is correct, what about the ability to shift up earlier?
Why have i experienced nearly a 5mpg increase in fuel economy? Bearing in mind i drive very gently, and tootle along at 50-55.

That's what I have found as well.

[Magnum335]

I dont think its a direct corelation of less throttle but more diesel...
Glad i'm not the only one mike!!!

[Guardian.]

must be just me then!
if your not going to use the extra power, why tune it?
i know the engines are factory set to give best emision figures etc, so tweaking can improve mpg to a small degree, but when people go on about tuning, they generaly mean 'go faster'.

[Porny]

I dont think its a direct corelation of less throttle but more diesel...
Glad i'm not the only one mike!!!

Why not??

On a mechanical pump you tweak the settings so you get more fuel at lower boost presure settings/throttle positions..

Hence why you rotate the diapraghm, adjust the starwheel etc etc... so that you get more fuel at lower boost, or more fuel at less throttle.
Ultimately with a tweaked pump the overall amount of fuel injected is increased/altered thorughout the full range of throttle openings.

Which means for a set speed, the amount of throttle needed will be less... as you will be putting in more fuel than before.  And more fuel on a diesel equals more power.
 


Ian

[mmgemini]

Right !!!

My Defender has the mildest tune that Alli-Sport do.I took the car down to have it done.

What have I found.

Well I THINK it's better to drive.More drivable shall I say.More low down torque where I think it's needed.

I have also removed the center silencer. I think I have more [again] low down torque.

I generally keep the revs down to less than 2300 !!!!!!

The last full fuel check that was done was when we were in southern africa. We had the car to at least 2.4 tonnes.Well over the GVW.
We had a return of just over 26 mpg for that trip inspite of the crap fuel over there.Mainly because I tend to keep the revs down and use the extra [??] torque.

I must also admit to using Millers diesel additive.
It can still be good fun at the traffic light GP though !!!

[Miniman]

When I first had my 2.5 n/a it was low on power and to get up some hills round where I live you find yourself squeezing that throttle alot thus loads of fuel used. After a pump tweak I found it alot better on fuel and hills not so much of a challenge.

When ya tune things ya power saves ya fuel if ya use ya brains....

Now I have fitted a 200tdi out of a disco and I just cant but not floor it...lol

[Porny]

When ya tune things ya power saves ya fuel if ya use ya brains....

I find your right foot works much better....  

[Stormin]

OK, My engines not a Land Rover one. 2.8 Isuzu turbo. I've had an Ally Sport interooler fitted and they tweaked the turbo. Before it was done I was averageing 28-30 mpg. Mixed driveing with some towing. Caravan, mini digger, twin axle trailer. Now I'm getting 33 mpg, runs smoother and gear changes are made earlier and low down pulling power is improved. Wish mine was. Hey miniman! I've copy right on the Defra thing. :D Glad you like it.

[Miniman]

he he but mines not the same as yours....lol

Yeh living in the country I think I have a right to display...lol

[Terry.J]

Thanks for comments all. seems like i'm not gonna get much more out of increasing airflow through my standard intercooler.Has anyone found one that is readily available from a scrappy that will fit a 300tdi and improve performance/mpg. and do i have to get the pump tweaked if fitting an up rated cooler.

Or from another angle, if you have limited funds and want to increase performance/mpg what would you do (and before the comments start coming in, i know I could sell it and get i nice little runaround  :lol: )

[dreadnought110]

Just as a seprateish thing has anyone tryed a vortex exhaust i have ran one for about 2 years now and i had a problem a while ago and took it out and replaced with a straight through pipe and noticed it down on torque it's now back in and she pulls realey well again... :?

[Porny]

Just as a seprateish thing has anyone tryed a vortex exhaust i have ran one for about 2 years now and i had a problem a while ago and took it out and replaced with a straight through pipe and noticed it down on torque it's now back in and she pulls realey well again... :?

Vortex exhausts that good all the vehicle manufactures fit them, and do loads of testing with them..... not!!!  :roll:

On nearly all my Tdi Land Rovers the centre box get replaced with a straight through pipe, which leaves just the smaller rear resonator (depending on model) - which makes quite a difference mid range.. and doesn't cost that much  

Thanks for comments all. seems like i'm not gonna get much more out of increasing airflow through my standard intercooler.Has anyone found one that is readily available from a scrappy that will fit a 300tdi and improve performance/mpg

Nothing will be a bolt in conversion, but have a look round a scrap yard for any Volvos (good intercoolers) or similar... or find a lorry breakers and see what they have.

I did almost fit a aftermarket Escort RS Turbo one to my 200tdi 90 (before I stripped it) - had both pipes on the same side, and fitted quite well behind the grill.  Keep a look out on Ebay as these come up when people upgrade again to a full width intercooler.

and do i have to get the pump tweaked if fitting an up rated cooler.

Technically no.... however, there is little point in fitting a bigger intercooler if you are not going to tweak the pump to suit.  

Or from another angle, if you have limited funds and want to increase performance/mpg what would you do (and before the comments start coming in, i know I could sell it and get i nice little runaround

Why would you want to get a run around.... :roll:  :?

Tuning on a budget....

Tweak your pump - even running a standard intercooler you will get decent performance.

Check you turbo boost pressure (should be 14.7 - 15psi on a 300Tdi)

Remove the EGR if you have one fitted.

Check the lift pump is working correctly

Check the throttle cable is adjusted correctly (and you get full throttle)

Remove the CAT (if fitted) and fit a non-CAT down pipe

Remove the large centre silencer - and/or do away with the silly rear silencer set up (on 200 and 300Tdi's)... the latter type rear pipe is an ideal swap!! (no silencer) - But you will need a small one somewhere on the exhaust.  Or if a 110", just do away with the large centre silencer.

Check the air filter is clean.

Bang some injector cleaner through the fuel system - I find the RedX HD cleaner is good (not the normal one).  You could also try some of the Rocket Boost or Power Boost Internal Engine Cleaner (the one you spray into the air intake) - have found it worked well in the past.

Ian

[Miniman]

Nice one porny I will be having a play with my 200tdi. I have already done the pump tweak and its made it ALOT better. Its supprising how something which costs nothing to do can make such a big difference....

[phoenixmad]

i am not saying eanything miniman i will wait until fri/sat and show you what a red phoenix looks like flying past i hope  :lol:  :oops:

[muddyweb]

Tuning on a budget....

Tweak your pump - even running a standard intercooler you will get decent performance.
Check you turbo boost pressure (should be 14.7 - 15psi on a 300Tdi)
Remove the EGR if you have one fitted.
Check the lift pump is working correctly
Check the throttle cable is adjusted correctly (and you get full throttle)
Remove the CAT (if fitted) and fit a non-CAT down pipe
Remove the large centre silencer - and/or do away with the silly rear
Check the air filter is clean.
Bang some injector cleaner through the fuel system - I find the RedX HD

One thing I'll add to that list... which really can make a difference...  

Check the valve clearances on your engine...   I've seen loads of Tdi engines where there is so much wear in them, that a simple adjustment to the right clearances will make the engine run more smoothly and with more power before you even start faffing around 'upgrading' things. ;-)

[Magnum335]

Someone suggested to me to chop out the centre box and fit a cherry bomb in there...

[Porny]

Tuning on a budget....

Tweak your pump - even running a standard intercooler you will get decent performance.
Check you turbo boost pressure (should be 14.7 - 15psi on a 300Tdi)
Remove the EGR if you have one fitted.
Check the lift pump is working correctly
Check the throttle cable is adjusted correctly (and you get full throttle)
Remove the CAT (if fitted) and fit a non-CAT down pipe
Remove the large centre silencer - and/or do away with the silly rear
Check the air filter is clean.
Bang some injector cleaner through the fuel system - I find the RedX HD

One thing I'll add to that list... which really can make a difference...  

Check the valve clearances on your engine...   I've seen loads of Tdi engines where there is so much wear in them, that a simple adjustment to the right clearances will make the engine run more smoothly and with more power before you even start faffing around 'upgrading' things. ;-)

Very true!!!

[Porny]

Someone suggested to me to chop out the centre box and fit a cherry bomb in there...

Why???

Just fit a piece of exhaust tubing... no need to faff around with a silencer... and straight exhaust pipe is cheaper!!!  


Ian

[Magnum335]

My exhaust would then have no silencing what so ever then...

[Porny]

My exhaust would then have no silencing what so ever then...

Does your's not run a rear silencer then??

Depends on the year of your 300Tdi... some do, some don't!!
Is a naff design anyway...

If you only have the large centre silencer then yes... fit a cherry bomb, or a similar straight through silencer.


Ian

[Magnum335]

Yeah i only have a centre bit!  What other options are there to it?

[Miniman]

I know people who run without a silencer all together its not that much louder as the turbo calms the noise down untill ya boot it then ya can hear the turbo spin up....yeha..... :roll:

[Magnum335]

I drive a sprayer with a 200tdi in and the exhaust just a 4ft pipe off the turbo. The novelty wears off after a while put it that way....

[Miniman]

Yer but a 4 foot pipe is madness.....lol If its coming out the back its alot further away and a bit less noisey.....he he ya mad man....4ft  ouch