Winches Again

[Budgie]

But Champion's are the same winch as the GEW & KEW range, with different badging, that are made in China.

The same winch that I had before the Warn and who's motor failed after 18 months of not much use.  

[Mudlark]

But Champion's are the same winch as the GEW & KEW range, with different badging, that are made in China.

The same winch that I had before the Warn and who's motor failed after 18 months of not much use.  

Basicly copies of the old Ramsey winch - MileMarker also use this design

The trouble with choosing a winch is that no one will give you an unbiased opinion of them the best is always the one on the front of their truck and half of them have never used them in anger


It's like saying a Land-Rover is the most reliable 4x4 - we'd all like it to be true but we know deep down it ain't (otherwise I might consider one :lol:  :lol: )

[LandRoger]

=D>  =D>  =D>  8)  :lol:  :lol:

[Mudlark]

I know you lot are going to give me stick but why not try it, anchor your truck down and pull the maximum load 4.5 - 5 tonnes whatever your Warn is rated at see what happens :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Why would WE want to, needlessly, try a stunt like that to satisfy YOUR curiosity?

Go buy your own Warn and try it if you believe a 5 year old report so much!  :roll:

what after reading that report :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Topple]

why not look at these

LINK_MODERATED_FOR BLATENT_ADVERTISING

I've looked they're too expensive :lol:  :lol:

You're not telling me they're more expensive than Superwinch are you?

My thoughts are on a Champion at the moment probably their heavy duty range

Unless I can get a nice mechanical winch with a Shogun pto

They are cheaper than Superwinch. Superwinch is an OEM versio of the Come-up http://www.comeupwinch.com/en/about.php

If you can find a similar spec'd superwinch cheaper i'd be interested to know

[datalas]

Why not look at a tabor ?

[Bulli]

Mudlark, me old son...come along anytime you fancy and see if my winch gets used.... err i have one- you are thinking of buying one, think i will rest my case there.
Ps ive also got a shogun and its lovely on the motorway, down the shopping centre or whereever my Mrs takes the kids.........

[Range Rover Blues]

I bought a Superwinch (I think, I don't see it that often) onm a removable mount, it's great at holding the backof the truck down but I usually get towed out, it's quicker.

I was interested to see that my "warranty" is invalid becasue I bought it with plasma fitted, but warranties are for lighting fires, the LAW says it must be fit for the purpose for which it was sold, so if it arrives in the post along with a shiny new winch bumper for a Defender /Disco etc then I find it hard to believe the seller assumed you'd only be dragging cars onto trailers

As for using a snatch block, in the DVD that came with the winch, Dave Bowyer demonstrates single, double and triple line pull on a Defender ebing winched up a slope.  The winching speed is similar in all cases because a motor under less load will run faster and draw less current as it's more efficient running at speed./

Now I'm not an expert at winching, far from it.  Bulli and 'Zuki I know do a lot more winching and as has been said, all the challenge guys buy Warn.

If it really was just a matter of badge engineering I don't think that would be the case.

[extreme90]

why not look at these

I've looked they're too expensive :lol:  :lol:

You're not telling me they're more expensive than Superwinch are you?

My thoughts are on a Champion at the moment probably their heavy duty range

Unless I can get a nice mechanical winch with a Shogun pto

They are cheaper than Superwinch. Superwinch is an OEM versio of the Come-up http://www.comeupwinch.com/en/about.php

If you can find a similar spec'd superwinch cheaper i'd be interested to know

well actualy, come up is the cheaper version of the superwinch, ive spoken to my friend hu is x superwinch engineer at tavistok plant
the come up is made in the same plant, it just depends what colour they want spray it, there is no difference apart from colour,
its like if uno marine engines....mercury mariner are both made by marine power, all they do is choose between a black cowle or a silver cowle and hey presto to differents incomes and ones cheaper than the other, all your paying for is the name, i.e mercury is dearer than mariner cos mercury been round for 40 year mariner on 25
danny

[Mudlark]

Now I'm not an expert at winching, far from it.  Bulli and 'Zuki I know do a lot more winching and as has been said, all the challenge guys buy Warn.

I know they buy Warn, But why?

They'll all tell you it's because they're the best - but why do they say that, have they all gone through every single winch there is to prove that Warn is the best or are they all relying on what others have told them.

The only way to really know how good something is is to test it to destruction.


Probably the paramount reason I haven't bought a Land-Rover yet, as I see one destructed every time I go trialling

[datalas]

Now I'm not an expert at winching, far from it.  Bulli and 'Zuki I know do a lot more winching and as has been said, all the challenge guys buy Warn.

I know they buy Warn, But why?

They'll all tell you it's because they're the best - but why do they say that, have they all gone through every single winch there is to prove that Warn is the best or are they all relying on what others have told them.

In a lot of cases yes, they have...  Alternatively they have been to events where other people have had alternative winches and have seem them perform either better, or worse than their own equipment.

Even a simple pay and play day can provide an education.   At burnworthy there were a number of people with come-on winches, and a number with 8274s.  Technically equivalent as they may be, the come-up winches were clunking groaning and winding in (not to mention out) at a rate of knots that had them redubbed the come-on winch.

the 8274s were much better,  although they did start to suffer from heat exhaustion.

the hydrolic winches that were there proved two things,  a power steering pump isn't enough to run one, and as for the other winch it could pull all day, but considering the speed of the darn thing, you quite possibly might be waiting that long.

either way, you take your money, and you take your choice.

For my money I'd be tempted to either go for a nice little tabor, which are cheaper than their cousins but more expensive to repair if it was going to get infrequent use,  or I'd save my pennies and get a decent branded one.

Yes, you can harp on as how they're identicle winches, made by the same people and coloured in by a different brand of pigmy, but at the end of the day the same is true of rola cola apparently, and I don't buy that either.

Probably the paramount reason I haven't bought a Land-Rover yet, as I see one destructed every time I go trialling

Do you happen to live under a bridge by any chance :roll:

[Xtremeteam]

/decides now that offering my warn 12k forsale as im going XP power on my 8274 aint the best idea/

[Mudlark]

Probably the paramount reason I haven't bought a Land-Rover yet, as I see one destructed every time I go trialling

Do you happen to live under a bridge by any chance :roll:

Why are you saying that Land-Rovers can't handle bridges either? :lol:  :lol:

[Bulli]

sorry Mudlark but were you taking part? How did the shogun do?

people break things period, if you are actually DOING the event and not just watching..... like i said b4 way better for the wife shopping but not on the lanes.

[Boggert]

Steady Gents............ :D

[rollazuki]

for my 2 cents worth, I reccon that theres a few decent winches out there. From my own personal experience(warn 8274 I wish Id never sold, Superwinch, and Tmax Outback) Id say they can all fail, and will all fail if neglected.
My 8274 could have done with a strip and service, Never pulled the motor down though, so no idea of condition inside.
My Superwinch enjoyed a gearbox strip now and again, and the drum bearings(yeah right) were always full of mud etc. Surprisingly, the motor was bloody well sealed!
My tmax, definitely the prettiest winch among em, has suffered from water ingress into gearbox and motor. It pulls damned well when it pulls, but is dissapointing due to lack of sealing.

Id say whatever you buy, if you immerse it in mud and water, then you'll have grief on a warranty claim, but above all, Id strip and rebuild any new winch, fully grease everything, seal the motor end caps, silicon everything in sight. At least then you are giving the winch every chance of surviving the life we put them through.

Think about it this way, how much time and effort do we spend on trying to water proof our ignition systems, on engines that in most cases would cost less to replace than the price of our new winch? I recon with a little TLC most winches can be good.

Rolla

[Mudlark]

sorry Mudlark but were you taking part? How did the shogun do?

people break things period, if you are actually DOING the event and not just watching..... like i said b4 way better for the wife shopping but not on the lanes.

Yes I do take part in trials - only started this year though and the shogun has brought back 3 trophies of the 4 trials I've done so...............

However I am aware that my LWB Shogun is not the ideal for sections set up to be difficult for SWB vehicles and so I'm thinking about building something that fits in.

Won't be Land-Rover based though  

[Bulli]

cool 8) , look forward to seeing the results of your efforts.

well done on getting the trophies, had a look round your site plenty of fun stuff on your piccies section. Come along to the scorpion round thats near you next year... its an eye opener!

still doesnt alter the fact that competitors use warn out of preference and have to fork out their own cash to buy em...no ones on freebies in this country.... like ive said they work... and noone is stupid enough to put 4tonnes through their chassis without being in dire trouble...be the shogun would become 2 shoguns if you tried it!

[Mudlark]

cool 8) , look forward to seeing the results of your efforts.

well done on getting the trophies, had a look round your site plenty of fun stuff on your piccies section. Come along to the scorpion round thats near you next year... its an eye opener!

I want to get to all of them and not just to watch (bad enough just having to watch the Southwest Shootout this year) Determined to put the
humble Shogun/Paj in an enviable position

and noone is stupid enough to put 4tonnes through their chassis without being in dire trouble...be the shogun would become 2 shoguns if you tried it!

Never thought of it like that but I know what you mean. I think the biggest let down of any electric winch would be it's electrics. There should be no excuse for mechanical failure.

When I've thought about winches I've always thought about fitting a mechanical one - power speed and endurance are all there, but it seems like looking for rocking horse sh*t.

Electric winches really come into their own when you have to do a rolled recovery so the necessity for a named winch is not so much required.


I'm always open to suggestions though :lol:  :lol: (except for buying a Land-Rover of course)

[Bulli]

the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.

[Mudlark]

If I'm right, and I'm only going by what I've read, you can have wheels turning at the same time as the winch. So when you're pulling out you can spin the wheels to get your traction - if you see what I mean - and lesson the load. The biggest problem with mechanical is forgetting to disengage the pto before you move off :shock:  :shock:

As for drowning the motor - hey - we're talking Shoguns here not Landies :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No that is the reason for the back up electric probably on the back, when you've rolled would get it's most use, a truck should be able to withstand running under water unless you have a very good reason to run petrols on a challenge.

Incidently have you seen the capstain drums that bolt to the centre of your front wheels to winch with?

[Xtremeteam]

the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.

you can drive assist a PTO winch But the wheels will turn at a different speed (faster) than what the winch will go,can modify the drum (make it smaller) to solve that problem

[Mudlark]

the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.

you can drive assist a PTO winch But the wheels will turn at a different speed (faster) than what the winch will go,can modify the drum (make it smaller) to solve that problem

I thought that was the case but the wheels turning faster than the winch is no different than a electric winch - at least with a mechanical you can put it in to 5th and wind it in quicker can you not?

[Sharpshooter]

Maybe i will look out for a secondhand one, with little use. Maybe Superwinch. :)

[Xtremeteam]

the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.

you can drive assist a PTO winch But the wheels will turn at a different speed (faster) than what the winch will go,can modify the drum (make it smaller) to solve that problem

I thought that was the case but the wheels turning faster than the winch is no different than a electric winch - at least with a mechanical you can put it in to 5th and wind it in quicker can you not?

im not 100% clued up on PTO winches,

Although a Superwing PTo being driven in 4th i think at 2500 RPM has 21 HP going into the winch,where as at most a twim XP 8274 has 12.

Also with a pto winch & also an electric u want the wheels to go at the same speed,specialy if ur in deep as it helps to climb ontop of the surface where as spinning the wheels just digs through

[Bulli]

hmmm 21hp. and you think the wire would be safe...eapecially if we all believe the report???

I beleive the shogun has to be in neutral for the pto to be work. If they were good the challenge boys would do it....and those guys spend their money!

[Mudlark]

hmmm 21hp. and you think the wire would be safe...eapecially if we all believe the report???

I beleive the shogun has to be in neutral for the pto to be work. If they were good the challenge boys would do it....and those guys spend their money!

Well you would think so but I think they look to see what everyone else is doing and then copy.

It's like everyone uses Land-Rover but there's few Land-Rover bits on them - If I wasn't so determined to prove that a Shogun or Pajero was better or just as good I'd personally go for a Land Cruiser based vehicle

[Sheddy]

I'll give you a clue .... the Paj ISN'T pulling me INTO the field ....

[Mudlark]

"I'll give you a clue .... the Paj ISN'T pulling me INTO the field ....  

But we don't see you in front of the Paj towing it do we



My recent recoveries include:


2 x Disco
1x defender 90
I x Lada Cossack
!x Tractor
and numerous others that I haven't bothered to keep track of


And yes I've been recovered as well but that's because I go places to see if I can get stuck or not Landie drivers usually follow if I get through and get really peed when they can't make it

 :lol:  :lol:

[Sheddy]

O.K.   I've had enough now.

In March the Scorpion racing Novice challenge starts again.  I will enter in a box standard 110 with the exception that I will fit some Cooper Discoverer S/T tyres.

You enter in your Japmobile.

The only reply needed is yes or no.