Powerbox - Porny?

[CJ]

Has anyone any experiance with the P-box s on a Def TD5 1999

Ive had one fitted for a year, contacted the dealer who fitted it as im looking for more power as the landy has been fitted with a large intercooler, big bore exhaust and large turbo...

Hi said inside the box is a blue dial with a arrow on, the arrow currently points to about seven o'clock... He said to turn it clockwise for more 'power'

It might just be me being suspecious BUT i dont want to blow the thing up or something stupid lol

I didnt know if Porny or anyone else has had any experiance with this...

I think P-box are now called something differnet too...?

Cheers all and Happy Christmas  

[Porny]

Plug in Box = bodge method of tuning!!!  :shock:

Some boxes are better than others, but they are still far from the best method tuning.

With a case of a plug in box it's suck it and see when you start turning it up, really you want to measure EGT at least.  But they will never be that good... will always put fuel in at the wrong time... and you will never be making the engines full potential.

Why not let me do you a custom remap for your Defender??  
Can do one for your exact spec - big intercooler, hybrid exhaust and better exhaust.  Can also supply you with an overboost box if you wanted so you can run higher boost pressures without hitting the boost limit on the Td5.  


Ian

[CJ]

Hmm, i might take you up on that mate, ithought the pre 2000 TD5 ECU wasnt programable tho ? or that it could only be done by a 'box'...

Can you give us an idea on price, just ben a mates with the twisted stuff on it and it goes like stink !

[smo]

I'll be looking for some remap goodness at some point later in the year Ian :)

[Xtremeteam]

Plug in Box = bodge method of tuning!!!  :shock:



Ian

Not even gonna bite  

[Porny]

Hmm, i might take you up on that mate, ithought the pre 2000 TD5 ECU wasnt programable tho ? or that it could only be done by a 'box'...

Can you give us an idea on price, just ben a mates with the twisted stuff on it and it goes like stink !

Depends who you talk to.....

The earlier ECU's aren't flash programmable, as the chips inside can only be written once.  With these ECU's you physically need to change one of the chips inside...  then fit a new chip which is programmed with the new 'map'  

Twisted stuff.... hrrmmm.... more plug in boxes and not the best driveability!

Price... you have a pm  

I'll be looking for some remap goodness at some point later in the year Ian

Sure we can sort that out  

Not even gonna bite  

Ian

[L90TD5]

Hi Chris,

I had Porny do my TD5 and it is superb!!! I had a not too hot chip in mine at 1st. Had him take a look, did some diagnostics and re-tune and its superb.

Top of the range tune, easy beat JE/Jeremy Fearn/Allisport/will definitely make Twisted performance seem naff(Ive tried them ALL) , top equipment, top bloke! :)

I have a 2000 TD5 soldered in chip. Anyone can make a TD5 go fast but tuning is a delicate and complex process if you are to do it safely and efficiently. Seriously, I would get rid of that hideous and scary sounding plug in box now.

T

[Xtremeteam]

Hi Chris,

I had Porny do my TD5 and it is superb!!! I had a not too hot chip in mine at 1st. Had him take a look, did some diagnostics and re-tune and its superb.

Top of the range tune, easy beat JE/Jeremy Fearn/Allisport/will definitely make Twisted performance seem naff(Ive tried them ALL) , top equipment, top bloke! :)

I have a 2000 TD5 soldered in chip. Anyone can make a TD5 go fast but tuning is a delicate and complex process if you are to do it safely and efficiently. Seriously, I would get rid of that hideous and scary sounding plug in box now.

T

if it was a soldered in chip thats not the best way to do it,

Porny knows the crack  :roll:

Also would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is & come to the rolling road day that im organising & put your vehicle against some of the above companys

[L90TD5]

"if it was a soldered in chip thats not the best way to do it"

I agree. FLash programming is cleaner, in some cases undetectable(depending on the tuner), easier to reverse.

But how else do you chip a 2000 TD5 non flashable ecu. You cant flash program it. Soldering in IS THE ONLY WAY to do it. It was done with a SMD Rework Station 968.

---------------------------

As for the performance against other companys. If its near enough Im in ;-) I am aware of 230 BHP tunes for defenders out there, however its black smoke at the ready and diffs are rated to 200BHP. Id say mine was 195BHP-200BHP (I would think) I dont think theres much to gain from these 230bhp plug in box tunes. As for my TD5 she has....

- EGR removed
-Allisport intercooler
- Silicon hoses
- Remap chip (obviously)
-K&N air filter
- Straight through exhaust (a sports would be nice but no £ at the mo!)

I would hope Propane injection vehicles would be excluded I hope!  :shock:  :P  hehe

T

[Porny]

if it was a soldered in chip thats not the best way to do it,

Porny knows the crack  :roll:

The original chip is de-soldered, and a socket is put in its place... then chips can in theory be changed at will - without anymore soldering.

I know a couple of places directly solder in the new 're-programmed' chip... but this is definitely not the best way  :shock:

If you wanted to be bling, you could fit an later EU3 flash ECU and flash it with a custom written EU2 map (which is what Autologic do AFAIK).. But the extra cost of a new ECU is unnecessary IMHO, and you won't gain anything over running a EU2 ECU... apart from a lighter wallet.

[Xtremeteam]

"if it was a soldered in chip thats not the best way to do it"

I agree. FLash programming is cleaner, in some cases undetectable(depending on the tuner), easier to reverse.

But how else do you chip a 2000 TD5 non flashable ecu. You cant flash program it. Soldering in IS THE ONLY WAY to do it. It was done with a SMD Rework Station 968.

---------------------------

As for the performance against other companys. If its near enough Im in ;-) I am aware of 230 BHP tunes for defenders out there, however its black smoke at the ready and diffs are rated to 200BHP. Id say mine was 195BHP-200BHP (I would think) I dont think theres much to gain from these 230bhp plug in box tunes. As for my TD5 she has....

- EGR removed
-Allisport intercooler
- Silicon hoses
- Remap chip (obviously)
-K&N air filter
- Straight through exhaust (a sports would be nice but no £ at the mo!)

I would hope Propane injection vehicles would be excluded I hope!  :shock:  :P  hehe

T

Having worked on a TD5 110 (o4 plate) with the following :
FMIC
twisted exhaust
dastek powerplug with a custom map
filter & egr removed it was dynoed at 176 bhp at the fly,theres still more to go but without fitting an EGT sensor its easy to start to damage things....

the rolling road day will be at dastek uk's base in dalgety bay in scotland,i know porny is making the trek up to participate,im more than happy to reserve you a slot n run on the dyno to see what its actually putting out    

Also Lre will be attending for a mag feature  8)

Also RE the reflashing of a pre 2000 vehicle,the dastek powerplug uses OME plugs so it is as simple to chip as it can get,disconnect ECU,plug PP loom in to ECU & plug vehicle loom into the loom connector, :roll:  no soldering,no modifying, genuine plug & play

also RE reflashing ECUs i have heard of landrovers own T4 software doing an update & taking the reflash with it thus putting the vehicle back to standard  

[Porny]

Having worked on a TD5 110 (o4 plate) with the following :
FMIC
twisted exhaust
dastek powerplug with a custom map
filter & egr removed it was dynoed at 176 bhp at the fly,theres still more to go but without fitting an EGT sensor its easy to start to damage things....

the rolling road day will be at dastek uk's base in dalgety bay in scotland,i know porny is making the trek up to participate,im more than happy to reserve you a slot n run on the dyno to see what its actually putting out    

Also Lre will be attending for a mag feature  8)

Lots of interesting points here....

Rolling Roads are often massively over rated.
Useful as a tuning aid - but not for proving 'actual' power figures.  
Two rolling roads are never exactly the same unless they are regularly calibrated – and even then there will still be slight errors.  Even with the rolling roads at my work there is will still be a 'slight' difference between cells... and the rolling roads at work are not the run of the mill – we are talking multi million pound jobbies, which we carry out legislation work on.

As a comparison and tuning aid they are good, but actual power figures should be taken with a pinch of salt… and figures are often exaggerated - and will never actually exactly match real life/on road useage.

Even driver techniques can massively effect figures obtained!!…  And some of the figures and calculations used to work out flywheel readings are also interesting.  :roll:

Also RE the reflashing of a pre 2000 vehicle,the dastek powerplug uses OME plugs so it is as simple to chip as it can get,disconnect ECU,plug PP loom in to ECU & plug vehicle loom into the loom connector, :roll:  no soldering,no modifying, genuine plug & play

also RE reflashing ECUs i have heard of landrovers own T4 software doing an update & taking the reflash with it thus putting the vehicle back to standard  

The Dastek box... although it might use OE spec connectors is still not the best method of tuning, and it’s not really a ‘chip’.

All a plug in box does is confuse the signals from the ECU and make the injectors stay open for longer… thus injecting more fuel… but at the wrong time.

And they are not without their problems…
Quite a few plug in boxes will cause the MIL to come on if the car is ‘booted’ from cold, they often don’t like having the boost pressure turned up (even if still below the boost cut).  Drivability is never as good due to inbuilt delay.

And some of them just randomly cause the MIL to illuminate, or the engine just to go into limp home mode.

In all honesty, the Dastek box is one of the better designed units – is more than just a box with a couple of resistors – but overall a proper remap ‘will’ always perform better in both performance terms and in the way it drives.

If plug in boxes are so good, why don’t vehicle manufactures use them??

(and Mike, this isn’t a personal dig at you)


Also re: the LR dealer reflashing ECU's with later tunes...
Impossible with EU2 cars.... but in theory could happen with EU3 cars.  But a dealer should always take copies of any fuel and varient files before they are changed - AFAIK they have to save them onto the computer before the old ones can be deleated.

The way around this and any other warranty issues would be to have two ECU's programmed for the car!

Ian

[Xtremeteam]

If plug in boxes are so good, why don’t vehicle manufactures use them??

mitsuibishi offer just such a thing on there L200 pickups, & i know who supplies them  

[Porny]

If plug in boxes are so good, why don’t vehicle manufactures use them??

mitsuibishi offer just such a thing on there L200 pickups, & i know who supplies them  

Is that mitsuibishi UK, or just local mitsuibishi dealers??  :?

Some Land Rover dealers offer plug in boxes too... but these are NOT supported by Land Rover, and quite often cause problems with warranty issues.

[L90TD5]

Will the rolling road day cost ££££???

I genuinely believe that a chip will hand a plug in its ass back in a tiny plug in box sized coffin.

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt a proper chip work in realtime with the engines ECU and its data thus giving more efficient power?

T

[L90TD5]

theres still more to go but without fitting an EGT sensor its easy to start to damage things....

What intercooler is the FMIC? I take it the IC = Intercooler?

On record tests it seems the Allisport cooler lowers the EGT by 100 degrees, which is nice to know.

T

[Eeyore]

Gonna ask a real daft question here, but why spec out a car without the filter? Isn't that going to give an unrealistic indication of output? Input filters can make a heck of a difference on a tuned lump.

Slightly confuzzled

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Xtremeteam]

If plug in boxes are so good, why don’t vehicle manufactures use them??

mitsuibishi offer just such a thing on there L200 pickups, & i know who supplies them  

Is that mitsuibishi UK, or just local mitsuibishi dealers??  :?

Some Land Rover dealers offer plug in boxes too... but these are NOT supported by Land Rover, and quite often cause problems with warranty issues.

Mitsubishi Uk as part of there power upgrades

[Xtremeteam]

Will the rolling road day cost ££££???

I genuinely believe that a chip will hand a plug in its ass back in a tiny plug in box sized coffin.

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt a proper chip work in realtime with the engines ECU and its data thus giving more efficient power?

T

What intercooler is the FMIC? I take it the IC = Intercooler?

On record tests it seems the Allisport cooler lowers the EGT by 100 degrees, which is nice to know.

T

The intercooler AFAIK was a allisport one,although it was supplied with no manufactureres markings,

The rolling road day is £30 per vehicle,The benefit of the dastek rolling road is that it calculates the flywheel figure on the run down of the vehicle rather than using a percentage figure + sum,thus being much more accurate,

No offence TD590 But i would expect your Td5 to be putting out approx 180 ish BHP,its over to you if you want to prove me wrong  

[Xtremeteam]

Gonna ask a real daft question here, but why spec out a car without the filter? Isn't that going to give an unrealistic indication of output? Input filters can make a heck of a difference on a tuned lump.

Slightly confuzzled

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

In referance to my text

filter & egr removed it was dynoed at 176 bhp at the fly

It was written as a filter was fitted (K&N i think,supplied by customer) & the EGR removed & blanked off

[Eeyore]

It was written as a filter was fitted (K&N i think,supplied by customer) & the EGR removed & blanked off

Aha! All makes sense, now! Ta  

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[L90TD5]

"No offence TD590 But i would expect your Td5 to be putting out approx 180 ish BHP,its over to you if you want to prove me wrong"

I'd love to! :D  But id be pi**ed off if I couldnt !! LOL :lol:  Ive tried some quality tunes with the Engine and the one I have now seems the sharpest yet.  Although I have been told it will be around the 195bhp mark, a raise in 60BHP is ok, but with the dosh spent Id expect 70bhp increase.

I'll see what Pornys up to. See if I could follow him up in TD5.

Cheers,

T

[joker777]

i can almost smell the testosterone from here  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: