AuthorTopic: its the end of the world!!!!  (Read 1256 times)

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Offline Bob696

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« on: January 06, 2007, 11:05:51 »
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1246243,00.html
well in the south east anyway :D

or more likely the 'cimate experts' will be about as accurate as when they forcast "The dryist and coldest winter on record" for 2006/2007  :P

There again, they could have just built too many houses in the SE


Still, not to worry, we get our water from wales and when we were there in October they were letting water out over the dams as they were full.
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Offline datalas

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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 11:18:54 »
the one that bothers me is that we get water shortages in southampton...

now asside from the fact it's currently raining, and most of the roads round here flood...

I appreciate that salt water is troublesome to make drinkable, but, we're surrounded by water :-!   I mean, if I go south, I get damp feet ...
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Offline gtomo2

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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 12:14:07 »
When my folks lived in saudia a very dry country they had disstillartion plants built on the coast the job of these was to convert sea water to drinking water and they work very well. In fact because thay are so good they re did the pipe work and warted all the road side trees and grass etc every day for about 6 hours at a time and they dont have droughts. and here us on a island with no water. Me think the water companys need to get off there private golf courses and start doing something about the leeks and may be flood a few more valleys so we have more resaviours or is that just to simple
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Offline Lord Shagg-Pyle

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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2007, 12:20:33 »
The only problem with desalination plants is that they use a load of energy to convert the water.  A bit of a Catch 22.

Offline thermidorthelobster

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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2007, 12:25:11 »
Yeah, it's fine if you live in a wealthy, oil-rich, desert-intensive country, but not very practical in the UK, although I think there are a couple around.
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Offline gtomo2

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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2007, 12:25:58 »
Quote from: "Lord Shagg-Pyle"
The only problem with desalination plants is that they use a load of energy to convert the water.  A bit of a Catch 22.


Nothing a nice big nucler power station cant handle :wink:

Thats the thing its all down to give and take if you want water then something has to be done its either flood some valleys and upset the ramblers by flooding there footpath. or go the disstil route and build a few power stations and upset greenpeace. or just do both and tell them to live with it or leave the country :roll:  :wink:
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Offline thermidorthelobster

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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2007, 12:28:58 »
It really gets right on my wick that we PAY the water companies to provide a service, then they tell US we can't use the water because there isn't enough.  That's the whole damn point of PAYING them for the service!  If they can't provide the service they exist solely to provide, then it's because they're either totally incompetent, or they prioritise their shareholders over their customers.  Almost certainly the second.

Can you imagine if you went to the supermarket every couple of weeks, and they said sorry, we don't have any food at the moment, you'll have to make do without?  Any supermarket which did that would quickly go out of business.  But this is exactly what the water companies are doing, but NOTHING HAPPENS!

Well, the way to reverse this is for the customers to kick up enough stink so that the shareholders get jittery.  For example, if everybody withheld their water bill money for a quarter, it would cause carnage.

I don't know why we put up with this rubbish;  mainly because nobody's sure what to do, I suspect.  Anybody want to help me start a revolution?
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Offline thermidorthelobster

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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2007, 12:30:32 »
Quote from: "gtomo2"
Nothing a nice big nucler power station cant handle :wink:

Thats the thing its all down to give and take if you want water then something has to be done its either flood some valleys and upset the ramblers by flooding there footpath. or go the disstil route and build a few power stations and upset greenpeace. or just do both and tell them to live with it or leave the country :roll:  :wink:

It's nothing to do with being short of electricity.  It's the economics of it.  Desalination costs too much.  Building more power stations wouldn't bring the costs down.  Nuclear power isn't free.
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Offline tomarse

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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2007, 12:37:48 »
Quote from: "thermidorthelobster"
It really gets right on my wick that we PAY the water companies to provide a service,


and we are paying them for something that falls out of the sky for free (they just need to catch it!) and we return most of it back to them after using it!

The gas company have to have lots of equipment, drill big holes and then pipe it hundreds of miles and be more careful storing it and transporting it and it costs about the same!

Offline Rich_P

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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2007, 01:11:32 »
Quote
The Environment Agency points to the Bewl reservoir in Kent - the South East's biggest stretch of open water - which last year was only a third full, having been drained by the worst drought since the 1930s.

Oh, so the weather cycle every hundred or so years means that we should be in fear?  :roll:

Wasn't it proven on TV a few years back that there's a clear cycle that the weather has a complete cycle every hundred years or so?

Offline smo

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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 13:22:47 »
Quote from: "thermidorthelobster"
It really gets right on my wick that we PAY the water companies to provide a service, then they tell US we can't use the water because there isn't enough.  That's the whole damn point of PAYING them for the service!  If they can't provide the service they exist solely to provide, then it's because they're either totally incompetent, or they prioritise their shareholders over their customers.  Almost certainly the second.

Can you imagine if you went to the supermarket every couple of weeks, and they said sorry, we don't have any food at the moment, you'll have to make do without?  Any supermarket which did that would quickly go out of business.  But this is exactly what the water companies are doing, but NOTHING HAPPENS!

Well, the way to reverse this is for the customers to kick up enough stink so that the shareholders get jittery.  For example, if everybody withheld their water bill money for a quarter, it would cause carnage.

I don't know why we put up with this rubbish;  mainly because nobody's sure what to do, I suspect.  Anybody want to help me start a revolution?


Not entirely correct, you PAY for what you use, they ask and sometimes enforce restrictions to ensure there is enough water to go around. Its simple, if the water isnt there you cant use it.

Its not really like food, there is a huge excess of food in the world, badly distributed but thats a different point. If a shop runs low in simple terms they make more. You cant make more drinking water as has been said desalination is not an option as its slow, expensive and we simply dont have any plants to do it either!

You also pay for the water companies to take away your effluent, treat it, make it clean and deal with all the nasties involved in that - its not a simple process and imagine doing that for every household and commercial premises in the country?

do you have any concept of what it takes to get water from a bore hole or out of a resovoir and to a safe drinkable state at your tap, when you want it 24/7/365??
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Offline smo

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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2007, 13:24:25 »
Quote from: "Rich_P"
Quote
The Environment Agency points to the Bewl reservoir in Kent - the South East's biggest stretch of open water - which last year was only a third full, having been drained by the worst drought since the 1930s.

Oh, so the weather cycle every hundred or so years means that we should be in fear?  :roll:

Wasn't it proven on TV a few years back that there's a clear cycle that the weather has a complete cycle every hundred years or so?


Quite possibly so, and also global warming is a natural event called inter glacial warming (or similar) and it happens in cycles of roughly 10,000 years if i remember correctly! Yes we are contributing to the natural cycle but its gonna happen with or without man and thats a proven fact!
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Offline thermidorthelobster

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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2007, 13:49:19 »
Climate change is natural and happens for a variety of reasons, yes.  There are many different cycles relating to oceanic currents, solar flares, the wobble of the earth's rotational axis, and a host of other things.

But at the moment we are having a totally unprecedented change in climate - the rate of change is far higher than anything that you would expect to happen naturally.  Natural climate change tends to have limiting factors;  but when you mess around with it on the scale we are, you can't rely on this.

Climate change may happen anyway, but not at the speed and scale it's happening now, and for very different reasons.  You can sit back and say oh well, it's not our fault, but I don't think your descendents will look back fondly at you in 100 years or so.
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Offline thermidorthelobster

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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2007, 13:51:40 »
Quote from: "smo"
Not entirely correct, you PAY for what you use, they ask and sometimes enforce restrictions to ensure there is enough water to go around. Its simple, if the water isnt there you cant use it.

But it's there, in abundance.  The water companies are not investing money in capturing it, storing it and distributing it efficiently.  We're not short of water in this country, but we're not using what we have at all efficiently.

Quote
do you have any concept of what it takes to get water from a bore hole or out of a resovoir and to a safe drinkable state at your tap, when you want it 24/7/365??

No.  That's why I pay a lot of money in water bills to somebody who's supposed to do it for me!
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Offline smo

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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2007, 14:01:00 »
Quote from: "thermidorthelobster"
Quote from: "smo"
Not entirely correct, you PAY for what you use, they ask and sometimes enforce restrictions to ensure there is enough water to go around. Its simple, if the water isnt there you cant use it.

But it's there, in abundance.  The water companies are not investing money in capturing it, storing it and distributing it efficiently.  We're not short of water in this country, but we're not using what we have at all efficiently.

Quote
do you have any concept of what it takes to get water from a bore hole or out of a resovoir and to a safe drinkable state at your tap, when you want it 24/7/365??

No.  That's why I pay a lot of money in water bills to somebody who's supposed to do it for me!



It isnt in abundance and i can assure you the water companies spend a HELL of a lot of money in keeping the water network running and expanding.

Water bills are not that expensive, if you find your rates are high, go on a water meter, we have been on one for years and its relatively cheap - if you still find it expensive then perhaps you should look at ways of cutting your usage. :)
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Offline Bob696

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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2007, 14:17:57 »
Quote

But at the moment we are having a totally unprecedented change in climate - the rate of change is far higher than anything that you would expect to happen naturally.


We don't KNOW what the speed of the process is so we have nothing to compare it with.

All we have are geological records which are naturaly mesured in thousands of years (if not millions).

Following lifted from LRUK
Source: The Daily Torygraph, sat dec 30th - Philip Eden's Weatherwatch

Quote
"A year for the record books"

"It was a year when unusual weather events frequently occupied the headlines, several records were broken, and many people were convinced that the climate really was changing.

"January '06 was the wettest for almost 30 years in southern England, then on Feb 8 a severe thunderstorm accompanied by hail and violent squalls caused much damage across the Midlands and the South-east.

"Spring was wet in the north and west of Britain, but very dry in the south and east; June was mostly fine, apart from a 12-hour long, steady downpour on the 29th which deposited between 2 and 3in of rain in a broad zone across southern, central and eastern England.

"That apart, it was a memorably long and sunny summer which culminated in record-breaking temperatures in early September with 35 deg C widely approached or exceeded.

"October and November were both remarkably mild though often cloudy and damp, but the year ended with a dramatic burst of wintry weather with widespread snowfalls of 6in or more, and level depths approached 2ft in eastern Scotland.














"You might not remember all those events. In fact you should not remember any of them as the year was 1906, not 2006.

"The purpose of the exercise has been to illustrate that, weather-wise, there is nothing new under the sun. Any year will deliver a handful of records and a host of unusual events, and we should not be surprised whe nthey turn up."


http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html makes for a good read
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Offline Biggles

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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2007, 15:58:17 »
Hmm.  I actually think the whole idea of Tony Blair suddenly taking up green credentials and preaching that we're on the brink of environmental disaster is complete sleight of hand.  After so many years of pandering to the USA's big plans for running (or ruining) the planet, he and George W have suddenly realised they can distract us with misrepresented "facts" about global warming. Its a good excuse to put fuel tax up without a lorry drivers strike, for a start.

The government doesn't want us to have cars, planes, trains or buses, its rather inconvenient for us all to insist on moving around all the time (hence road pricing is inevitable). They'd rather we all stayed at work all day and had one days holiday per year.  That way income tax and company profits (and tax contributions) would rise, and the government could afford more tanks and fighter planes.  
Has anyone published official calculations for the environmental impact of the wars that Bush and Blair are constantly orchestrating?  No, I thought not.
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Offline Lucy1978

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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2007, 18:31:43 »
THe reservoir in that article was ALLOWED to run down to low levels all in the name of politics, (drought orders give the water companies a lot of powers such as forced metering, they wouldn't otherwise get)  The photos were taken early last year, januaryish, water was being pumped into the reservoir for most of last year, with it at about 60% capacity over the summer.

Offline muddyjames

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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2007, 18:40:39 »
Quote from: "Lord Shagg-Pyle"
The only problem with desalination plants is that they use a load of energy to convert the water.  A bit of a Catch 22.


How about a power station run by waves :wink: I know these exist and are eco friendly. the waves make the power that produces lots of lovely clean water. water goes to houses and then back into the sea to make more power. Thats far too efficient for this nanny state
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Offline Garin

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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2007, 18:42:51 »
If you build 100,000 new houses it stands to reason that you need extra reservoirs to supply them with water, the water companies want a meter in every house so they can get their hands on more of your cash, they should be using the cash they have got to fix the leaks in the system instead of funding shareholders

Offline muddyjames

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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2007, 18:46:14 »
Quote from: "Garin"
If you build 100,000 new houses it stands to reason that you need extra reservoirs to supply them with water,


and the land you have just built on means less land for heavy rain water to soak away into so higher chance of floods when you do get loads of rain.

Easy answer. Let less people in the country and STOP BUILDING HOUSING ESTATES!!!!!!
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2007, 18:51:26 »
Quote from: "Garin"
If you build 100,000 new houses it stands to reason that you need extra reservoirs to supply them with water, the water companies want a meter in every house so they can get their hands on more of your cash, they should be using the cash they have got to fix the leaks in the system instead of funding shareholders


Do you know how much any of the water companies spends on the "network" in any given year?
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2007, 19:38:13 »
I just want a resonable product for a reasonable price, in this case water.

To claim water shortages is rediculous, we're an island! we're sat in the biggest reseviour possible, water companys need to invest in desalination, with the amount of population growth it's going to be the only way.

Offline Garin

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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2007, 19:38:35 »
Quote from: "smo"


Do you know how much any of the water companies spends on the "network" in any given year?


Not enough almost 2 billion less than Ofwat expected between 2000 and 2005

 






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