TD5 Conversion HELP!!

[Tinks]

Ok i have a E reg 90 that has a 200TDI in at the mo its already had one engine transplant before i had it and now i'm thinking about putting the chassis and body onto TD5 axles and engine!

So what do you guys think, good idea or bad?

Also anybody know how easy it is to get this stuff & at what sorta price?  :?

[thermidorthelobster]

If I had a 200Tdi 90 I'd keep it as a 200Tdi.  Why put in a more complex and less economical engine which may be higher specced but won't give you better performance.

[Tinks]

Thats a very good question!

I want something thats gonna be good offroad but also when i take it on long road trips, which i do quite often as i can't afford 2 cars and am always miles and miles away from any landy shows or events won't take me a week to get there! :roll:

[Porny]

That's what I'm buiding... though I've gone a bit further!!! - will be very different to my original Td Truck Cab!

A lot of people get scared by the Td5 because it has a thing called an ECU  :roll: - but in all honesty to get them to work isn't that hard at all.

Not quite a bolt in conversion though, but with the correct selection of parts is nothing major.
And the sale of your 200TDi and Lt77 will virtully pay for a much newer Td5 and R380.


And I disagree with the performance aspect... a tuned/remapped Td5 will run rings around a tuned 200Tdi.... infact a standard Td5 will give even a tuned 200Tdi a run for it's money.


Ian

[Tinks]

Yup thats more my train of thought, i'm definatly not scared of an ECU!!! :lol:

So when you say alot further what you doing with yours?

[Porny]

Mine will end up basically a Td5 90...

I bought a brand new 90 chassis (soon to be galvanised), but with a Td5 rear tank mount and Td5 engine mounts and have collected quite a few other bits...
 
2005 Defender 90 body panels - i.e. roof, doors, wings etc etc
2004 spec Td5 and Gearbox
2004 spec ABS/TC equipped axles and required ECU/harness
Brand new chassis, Brand new bulkhead
XS spec Dashboard Loom
XS interior
2004 spec Dash
Full CSW headlining, window trim
etc etc... the list goes on.

Just need to start putting it all together once my chassis is galvanised....

And once I've finished helping my mate build his 90....
Again a very similar spec (new chassis etc etc) but his is going to be a very smart softop  8)

My 90 started off as a Td, and my mates an NA diesel...


Have a look at Martins sight for inspiration   - http://www.web-rover.co.uk/nav.php?p=my

Martin was one of the first people to do a Td5 conversion... and although personnally I would do quite a few things different (and I am doing) - Martins 90 ended up very smart and was one of the first conversions to Td5 power around.

I'd much rather have a factory spec conversion - and thus have everything off the shelf - hence the route I've took for my rebuild.

At the time when Martin did his, parts and info were more difficult to come by... but this has changed a lot!!!  There are lots of Td5 Defenders going through breakers... and parts aren't difficult to get.


And as for price...

I can supply nearly all the bits you need.



Ian

[bigfatsi]

Mine will end up basically a Td5 90...

I bought a brand new 90 chassis (soon to be galvanised), but with a Td5 rear tank mount and Td5 engine mounts and have collected quite a few other bits...
 
2005 Defender 90 body panels - i.e. roof, doors, wings etc etc
2004 spec Td5 and Gearbox
2004 spec ABS/TC equipped axles and required ECU/harness
Brand new chassis, Brand new bulkhead
XS spec Dashboard Loom
XS interior
2004 spec Dash
Full CSW headlining, window trim
etc etc... the list goes on.

Just need to start putting it all together once my chassis is galvanised....

Ian

Stop it. I'm drooling!  :lol:

[muddydisco]

Thats a very good question!

I want something thats gonna be good offroad but also when i take it on long road trips, which i do quite often as i can't afford 2 cars and am always miles and miles away from any landy shows or events won't take me a week to get there! :roll:

Why don,t you tune it. Big intercooler, turbo and fuel pump tweeked and away you go.

[Tinks]

Cheers Ian that sounds wicked i might be getting in touch with you soon then for some more help & maybe even some parts as i'm liking the sound of the idea more & more!! 8)

Muddydisco,  I thought about that but no matter how much you tune & tweek a 200 its never gonna be as good as a chipped & remapped TD5, which is what one day mine would hopefully be!

And i dont really want to spend any more money on a 200, i thinks that my money would be better spent on a TD5.

[Devon-Rover]

I wonder what justin will think of his old 90 then. I bet he'll be just as green as the paint.

Now to snap us all out of drooling over the idea of a TD5 how much will it cost? To do say a bog standard conversion. So really just the old engine and box out and the Td5 in.
I just want a good reason why not too do it. Saying that with a lottery win i would stick a Td5 in the series. Now that'll give the V8 boys something to look at.

[Tinks]

Well Justin doesnt even know that i'm thinking about it at the mo!  But he has just bought himself a nice newish TD5 anyway!!

I dont really know yet how much its gonna cost me, but i reckon its gonna work out cheaper than buying a new TD5 standard?

And that would be pretty cool a TD5 series, nice idea, go on do it you know you want to!! :lol:

[Porny]

A Td5 in a Series is something I'd like to do!!!....

Think I'll build my road going 90 first though...  

I would really like a Lightweight body (slightly modded) on a 90 chassis with a tuned Td5!!! (as much as I like leaf springs.... coils still win)

A Td5 conversion wouldn't cost that much...
Typically an engine would be anything between £1000 and £2000(max) depending on age/mileage and what you get with it...

Gearbox/transfer box - anything from £250 upwards (typically £450)

Fuel system (can be make to run without the proper in tank pump - so can use a standard 90 or even Series tank) - but the proper stuff can be had for around £150

And then add a dashboard loom - £150 ish -  (save bodging something together) an alarm ECU (engine ECU should come with the engine) and job done  

To do an 'as factory' conversion (if on a pre 300TDi) then you also need a different seat box/floor panels.  And depending on where you site the tank you 'may' need a td5 rear tub.

In all honesty if your converting something like a 200Tdi - the old engine will fetch virtually the same (if not the same) amount of money as a much newer Td5 lump.

To do a Td5 conversion isn't that much more involved than say fitting a 300Tdi to a pre 300Tdi Defender.  I'm even helping put some kits together for a few engines sent over to America - mainly converting Disco spec engines/ECU's to Defender spec.

The other way to do it is to buy from a friendly breaker a complete crashed TD5 Defender and strip all the bits yourself - doing it this way means you get every little last nut/bolt/fitting   .  When you've stripped it just return the chassis and any other unwanted parts to the breaker - as the chassis being CAT B can not be re-used.



Ian

[Tinks]

Ian, outa interest what parts do you have that would be for sale? :?

[Porny]

Tinks,

One way you could make life easier is to start with a brand new Td5 spec 90 chassis.... really depends what your chassis like..

You could build up a rolling chassis (or get someone to build one for you )and then swop all your body panels and interior etc etc over.

Apart from the rear tub and seatbox/floor panels you could reuse everything else on your 90  

And then sell you 200Tdi engine, gear box etc etc on for good money (Defender 200Tdi engines still fetch £1000)

Because you would be using a brand new chassis (engine mounts are irrelevent), and keeping the original steering and suspension type you would be able to keep your existing ID.... regardless of engine/transmission used.


Ian

[Porny]

Ian, outa interest what parts do you have that would be for sale? :?

I can get virtually anything you want  

I've done work for a couple of breakers (mainly getting them started when they come with no keys or alarm fobs) - so am owed a few favours... (and some of them tend to prefer to supply bits to traders only, rather than general public as less hassle - not that I'm a trader!!)


Ian

[Devon-Rover]

The Td5 will be a dream. I could probably just scrape the money together to fit a Td.
Well i didn't know justin has got a new motor, See what happens when i injure my self. lol.


Good luck with the project.

[CJ]

ahh ut justin would be scared to take his offroad as it involves gettin dirty lol

Maria, rolled TD5 disco in exeter auctions today, chassis and axles, engine and box all A-ok


Guess how much it sold for with a V5










 :oops: your not going to like this











£980  :shock:


I would of bought it myself if id know it would go that cheep

[Tinks]

Your right i don't F***ing like  it  :oops: 980 quid, thats not fair!!

I dont think Justin has any big offroading plans for the new landy, its not ment for getting muddy you know!  He said he may drive on the occasional verge! :lol:

Is there any difference between the disco and defender engine?

Ian, i was thinking that getting a rolled TD5 would be a good idea, what the likey hood of getting something like that & what sort of money do ya reckon?   :?   Also is there any that you can reuse the chassis on?

[thermidorthelobster]

I think you'll be disappointed.  I've driven thousands of miles on- and off-road in convoy with 200tdi and 300tdi Defenders, and my chipped TD5 was not really any more nippy in practice - at a push I could get away from them, but not by any great margin, and in some conditions not at all.  My theory is the tdis have a broader torque curve, whereas the TD5 seems to peak quite high.

[Snooky]

I saw a tax exempt series with a TD5 engine in Chepstow, on the farm that runs the Quad biking down that way, looked good as well, but not sure how they get away with tax exempt as running with 90 body, disc axles all round and springs, so guess the only bit must have been the chassis  :?

[Tinks]

Thermidorthelobster, When i originally upgraded from a series to a 90 i went and test drove both 300TDI and a TD5 right from the first time i drove them i've always wanted and prefered the TD5 just could nt afford it!  I've driven stndard TD5's and chipped ones and reckon theres a big difference!!

If putting 5 cylinders in doesnt work then i'll have to start again and put 8 in!! :lol:

Snooky, thats not lagal is it :? Very cool tho and wicked if you can get away with it, i could spend the amount of money that i pay in road tax on a thousand better things!! :lol:

[muddydisco]

I saw a tax exempt series with a TD5 engine in Chepstow, on the farm that runs the Quad biking down that way, looked good as well, but not sure how they get away with tax exempt as running with 90 body, disc axles all round and springs, so guess the only bit must have been the chassis  :?[/quo



I,ve seen a 1994 land-rover with 300 tdi engine un-modifed on series 3 plates. All i can say is  RINGER but they get away with it. :roll:

[Porny]

Is there any difference between the disco and defender engine?

Ian, i was thinking that getting a rolled TD5 would be a good idea, what the likey hood of getting something like that & what sort of money do ya reckon?   :?   Also is there any that you can reuse the chassis on?

Disco and Defender engine are similar - but there are a few differences!
Mainly air filter assembly and a couple of features of the FEAD (front end accessory drive belt).
Engine wiring loom and the ECU are also different (ECU can be altered though   )

Getting hold of a rolled or crashed one should be possible (can ask around ) - price wise anything thing from £2500 upwards.

Chassis wise... if you buy a CAT B damaged car, the chassis can not be reused - as the car must be broken for spares and not go back on the road as a whole vehicle.... also a CAT B won't come with any ID.  Most LR breakes will want the chassis back to make sure you don't keep the car as a whole.


Ian

To keep your existing registration  then you 'should' use a brand new chassis and scrap your existing one.

[Tinks]

Thanks Ian that would ideal if you could ask around for me  as i'm pretty sure that this is the best way to go. :D

If i cant get my hands on a complete rolled one & buy everything i need already in pieces can i use my E plate chassis even if your not ment to?
Engine mounts are gona be different right but what about the rest, like axles and body mounts? :?

So if there's only a coupler differnces between disco & defender engines would i be better off going for one or the other or does it not really matter? :?

Oh and the other thing i was gona ask ya is my 200TDI is a disco engine, will that change what its worth much? :?

Cheers, Maria

[Rekybeki]

I don't know much about engine transplants but I do know that the Tomb Raider version of the 90's run with TD5's as I have got one. My other half bought a Dastek piggyback chip set and larger intercooler which has given a general increase in overall performance of about 35%. It gives increased brake horsepower and torque, plus an 8 mile increase in miles per gallon (sorry don't do kilometres/litre - had left school when they brought that in!!). The only drawback is when you get over 55mph then you can see the fuel go down quickly but the look on driver's faces as you pass them on the motorway when they least expect it is priceless!!!!! :lol:

HTH

Regards

Beki

[Porny]

Thanks Ian that would ideal if you could ask around for me  as i'm pretty sure that this is the best way to go. :D

If i cant get my hands on a complete rolled one & buy everything i need already in pieces can i use my E plate chassis even if your not ment to?
Engine mounts are gona be different right but what about the rest, like axles and body mounts? :?

So if there's only a coupler differnces between disco & defender engines would i be better off going for one or the other or does it not really matter? :?

Oh and the other thing i was gona ask ya is my 200TDI is a disco engine, will that change what its worth much? :?

Cheers, Maria

Using your existing chassis is fine... but you will have to change the engine mounts and gearbox mounts (or use a 300Tdi Gearbox crossmember) and then you 'might' have to fit a Td5 rear crossmember (though you should be ok with yours) and make up all the rear fuel tank mounts.  
The other option is use an aftermarket fuel pump and keep your existing side mounted fuel tank.  Doing it this way means you don't have to change the rear body.

You could also fit the engine and gearbox the same way Martin has on the www.web-rover.co.uk site.... he has fitted the R380 onto the LT77 mounts - which means he keeps the same transmission tunel, propshafts and seat box - but the engine is about 2" further back than a standard factory Td5.

While this works ok - it does mean all the coolant/intercooler pipe work and the exhaust down pipe needs to be modified.

I personnally favour the 'as factory' installation - which means all the parts are avaliable off the shelf... but really up to you.


Going back to the chassis issue....

To modify your chassis to take a Td5 is fine - and you can keep your existing ID (i.e. Vin number and reg number)

To use a second hand TD5 chassis (or any second hand chassis) and trying to keep your exsiting ID is technically a 'no go' as it is basically classed as ringing! (people do though, but up to you if you want to take the risk).
But you wouldn't be able to use the ID off the Td5 chassis as if it's been broken for spares due to crash damage as it will be a class B right off - which means it shouldn't go back on the road.  

The only correct ways are to modify your existing chassis or to buy a brand new chassis with the correct mounts for Td5.

Engine wise...
Personnally I'd go for a Defender engine - and you need a Defender spec ECU (or the temp gauge will work the wrong way around amoung other things) - but I can covert and Disco spec ECU to a Defender spec (as long as they are from manual cars) without too much hassle.

Going for a Defender spec engine means you know for a fact that everything fits!


Re: Your engine...

A 200Tdi Discovery engine is worth less than a 200Tdi Defender engine, but you still should be able to get anything between £500 and £800 depending on condtion/mileage etc etc

Ian

[Tinks]

I think that i'd rather do things thw correct way. I definatly prefer to know that once i've built it any parts i should need to replace in the likley event that i break something,  i will be able to get off the shelf. 8)

I like the sound of leaving my fuel tank were it is, will that create any problems if i was to use a new chassis? :?  It should'nt be too difficult to make new mounts should it as i'm keen on keeping my chassis cos its in good nik and i don't have alot of dosh to chuck at it!

I dont really want start messin with my exhaust down pipe cos its a nice ss one :D

I also like the sound of it being a fact that everything will fit, so Defender engine it is!! :lol:

Oh and i also meant to say thanks very much for all the help your giving me  

[unknownmanxman]

I know they're more expensive etc etc... But what about the 2.8 powerstroke?

[Xtremeteam]

I know they're more expensive etc etc... But what about the 2.8 powerstroke?

the TGV with the VVT turbo


mmmmmmmmmm the noise it makes back though a snorkal with a panel filter is just pure ooooft

[Tinks]

Sorry to be a plonker but i don't know anything about the 2.8 powerstroke!?! :roll: