London to have 100m SUPER Mosque?

[Rich_P]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18791-details/ques-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque%3A+Vote+now/poll.do

http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=2567&cid=11&sid=63

In the basics, there are plans for a 100 million pound "Super Mosque" to be built in London, that would even dwarf Saint Paul's Cathedral!  :shock: This is sheer madness!

England, is, and shall always be, Protestant and Church of England.  I can honestly say I would go "Ape" if this actually happens.

[Bob696]

http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/02/28/mosque-bid-thrown-out/

In the first plans the minoret was going to be 200ft. Due to location the 65ft one would still have dwarfed almost everything.

[rollazuki]

Sounds great, we could use another Landmark/national monument eh...... :shock:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

No doubt it will be paid for by Saudi Arabia.

[karlo]

This country has gone f****** mad, Labour will soon have it bankrupt with everyone paying for medical care (will all be private the way their cutting NHS jobs) on top of taxes they already take from the public.  

[strapping young lad]

be careful what you say on public forums as it could class as racist or xenophobic

yeh it probably raised a few eyebrows but we're a live and let live society, well we are supposed to be anyway.

[Eeyore]

Umm, I think some justification of the above points would be useful, particularly in relation to self-funded places of worship.  :?

Mind you, if it's going to become a general rant thread, let me start on the new Golf advert!  :twisted:  

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Ralph]

That is disgusting

[Bulli]

I dont think anyone should be discouraged from practising their own religion, everyone has the right that is the foundation of theis country.

The reason for the building of the mosque on that particular site seems to be more about publicity as it would dominate the skyline and be very visible during the 2012 Olympics.

The main objection i have is the fact that this particular branch of Islam preaches intolerance and the subservience of women. This is surely against everything the Uk stands for, many of our relatives fought and laid down their lives to protect those freedoms. Frankly treating women as anything but equals is completely wrong morally.

The other key part of the article is that the largest place of Christian worship holds 3000 people. The super mosque would accomodate 70,000. Think about that 70000. The capacity of Wembley is 90000.

[Horness]

The London Evening Standard is running an opinion poll on whether or not the Super Mosque should be built. Since it is planned to be higher than St. Paul's Cathedral, will involve tax-payers' money as well as massive donations from the ultra-fundamentalist Wahhabi regime in Saudi Arabia, and will be the biggest symbol so far of the Islamic colonisation of England.

So Vote

People are too scared to say what they believe, they are too scared to be patriotic any more.  I kept a Union Jack up (flying from the TV aerial pole) from the Jubilee a few years ago, and was asked by the local council to take it down as "it may offend local cultures"! :shock:
Until the weather blew it away last year, it was still going strong.  Now looking for a heavy duty ex-army one.

If you say what you feel on a matter like this you're branded a racist.  So people keep their mouths shut, and it just keeps happening over-and-over again, until it's too late.

[karlo]

I dont think anyone should be discouraged from practising their own religion, everyone has the right that is the foundation of this country.

The reason for the building of the mosque on that particular site seems to be more about publicity as it would dominate the skyline and be very visible during the 2012 Olympics.

The main objection i have is the fact that this particular branch of Islam preaches intolerance and the subservience of women. This is surely against everything the Uk stands for, many of our relatives fought and laid down their lives to protect those freedoms. Frankly treating women as anything but equals is completely wrong morally.

The other key part of the article is that the largest place of Christian worship holds 3000 people. The super mosque would accomodate 70,000. Think about that 70000. The capacity of Wembley is 90000.

Totally agree This is our country as british citizen's, our rules but this government lets immigrants virtually do as they like its about time they stood up to them and told them to play by the rules of this country not bow down to them.

When we get called "brits" we don't complain, but if you use another abbreviation for folk from another country you get arrested for a public disorder offence  :shock: I know i've seen it happen.

there was one council that banned the word christmas had to be xmas for fear of upsetting other communities how daft is that?

Politically Correct ok, but its getting out of hand.

[Eeyore]

England, is, and shall always be, Protestant and Church of England.

England was, certainly at one point, quite Pagan.  

....then quite Roman Catholic.

Things change, nowt stays the same for ever.  

On the subject of funding, in the links posted here, I couldn't find anything to suggest that the 'super-mosque' will be tax funded. If someone has found the evidence to point this out, then it would be interesting to read.

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[BrumLee]

England was, certainly at one point, quite Pagan.  

....then quite Roman Catholic.

Things change, nowt stays the same for ever.  

You're not sugesting we should all become muslims are you  :shock:

What happened to a building falling into line with surrounding architecture?

I sometimes wish the Quakers had taken over this country. Their morals of keeping up the appearance of one's neighbourhood seem to have ruling over what happens to organisations that want to flex their muscle. Cadbury's to rule Birmingham I say  

[Eeyore]

You're not sugesting we should all become muslims are you  :shock:

By 'eck, no!  :lol:  Just highlightin' a potential hole in the original statement    

What happened to a building falling into line with surrounding architecture?

The same arguement was used agains the Lloyds building, and the Gherkin. And Canary wharf. And some of the older buildings, too (including many of the 'classical' buildings we now exonerate). Again, it's called progress.  

I sometimes wish the Quakers had taken over this country. Their morals of keeping up the appearance of one's neighbourhood seem to have ruling over what happens to organisations that want to flex their muscle. Cadbury's to rule Birmingham I say  

They got Tesco's alcohol license overturned.  :shock:  So, you never know!  :lol:

Now, I'm not suggesting that a 70k seater Mosque is a good idea. I'd just like to hear some more robust arguements as to why it's a bad idea.

Personally, I'd rather not see public money spent on football stadiums, millenium domes or olympic venues either, but thats just me!  

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Bulli]

eeyore as such i have no problem with the building of a huge place of worship. I think its the thin end of the wedge when they are preaching that everyone elses way of life is wrong and that the world should be turned Muslim.

Preaching that women are not equal to men and should be treated like cattle is wrong and goes against everything i personaly believe in.

so they are my objections, not that its a eye sore or it will do whatever to the area but that an organisation (its an orgainisation within Islam as there are many different teachings many of which view the world in totally oposing ways)that teaches that anyone disagreeing with them is the enemy is not a good thing.

[bigant]

am still pagan much easyer ^^

[Sider]

As a tax-paying (god that hurts) foreign citizen, my 2 pennies, for anyone who cares to read (not in any particular order, just writing as the dribble comes out of my mind):

1.- Britain is mainly Anglican (for now, at least), but not really protestant (if you were to compare rituals and so on, Anglicans and Catholics are the closest, and if you press me, I would say that Anglicanism shares more with Judaism than with Luteranism. Having said that, how many churches exist that are not CoE? Baptists, Methodists, Evangelists, and the lot. So why would it be worse to have a muslin than a Jehova's witness as your neighbour?

2.- If you read carefully the articles, it is stated that the Government (and believe you me, I have little to no simpathy for Blair, Brown and their cohorts) will most likely oppose the application.

3.- As long as it is not publicly funded (i.e. they do not use our taxes to build it) I have no objections in principle to any church, sinagogue or mosque (or temple of any kind) being built. On the other hand, I am very wary of religious extremism of any kind (one of my nemesis are the Opus Dei).

Let's not forget that most religions, at one point or another expanded by using the sword. Does the Inquisition ring a bell with someone? Or the orders sent to Wellington telling him to cull Methodism from the Army? We grew out of it, but some cultures need much longer to accept change. It is not necesarily a religious thing, more of a cultural one.

Then again, I'm just another Johnny Foreigner, and therefore, wrong, or at least unworthy of voicing my opinion.

[MudRat]

I agree with Sider, let them worship anyway they want, i doubt the pagans weren't too happy when the first churches started going up!

Lets be tolerant as we are the first to moan when people make Vast Sweeping Statements about 4x4 users!


Beware of Prejudice????

[Skibum346]

Congrats to both the above posters for bringing a little sense to a rant...

Lemme see... we opose the percieved preaching of intolerance by.... not being tolerant of it.... Hmmmm... anyone notice a wee double standard in that?

As an Ex Catholic, Ex Protestant confirmed atheist... or is it agnostic... I hate the way religion is used on all sides as a stick to beat each other up with.

I wish you would all take a leaf from the book of a school I saw on BBC Midlands news tonight... a Jewish school where most of the kids are Moslem... Good "Enter deity of choice here"... if they can do it?!!!

 :(bigangry):

[datalas]

There is no such thing as tolerance ...

In order to tolerate something you must accept that there is a fundamental difference which must be somehow accepted or ignored ...

My opinion,  we need to reach a state of religious indifference, apathy, it solves most things :)

However, on a serious note, whilst I can appreciate that another proposed tax hike in order to fund something which not many people would gain much benefit from would be jolly annoying,  I feel the same way about the national stadium and that thought didn't seem to carry much weight :)

Don't let this argument get out of hand please chaps ...

[Bulli]

Congrats to both the above posters for bringing a little sense to a rant...

Lemme see... we opose the percieved preaching of intolerance by.... not being tolerant of it.... Hmmmm... anyone notice a wee double standard in that?

As an Ex Catholic, Ex Protestant confirmed atheist... or is it agnostic... I hate the way religion is used on all sides as a stick to beat each other up with.

I wish you would all take a leaf from the book of a school I saw on BBC Midlands news tonight... a Jewish school where most of the kids are Moslem... Good "Enter deity of choice here"... if they can do it?!!!

 :(bigangry):

No mate, sorry i hope you arent having a pop at me??

I have stayed to facts rather than your rather nice if i stick my head in the sand arguament. I have clearly stated i have no opposition of anyone going about their lives how they want but i am strongly against people who preach intolerance (are you saying treating women as possessions is right?).

Now lets make a distinction here. The organisation is apolitical and at present has no political agenda. They do however preach ideas that are very contrary to the views i share, mainly on the subject of equality. Which should never become part of our British way of life.

If an organisation whether religious or political sprung up saying everyone else was wrong and at its extremes promotes suicide bombings (as several of the 7/7 terrorists attended mosques from this particular Islamic church) i hope that this would be opposed strongly, by everyone and not put into the i'm alright Jack catagory.

PS look up rant in the dictionary and dont use such statements as a blanket term, its rather rude.

[Eeyore]

Sanity Check time,  8)

I don't think anyone here is having a go at anyone else, and certainly not at Bulli, here.

Personally, I always fear discussions starting concerning religion, politics, football, northern beer vs southern beer etc etc, because it's way too easy for folk to get offended. And then it turns sour and we spend oodles of time keeping the peace, and making posts not unlike this one. Then folk get upset because 'we're infringing 'freedom of speech'' and then they have a pop at us and we bite our tongues and more threads get locked and more people get upset and the Mods go off and have a group hug <breathe>.

Is anyone else following this so far?  :-s   :lol:

My postings on this matter have been a request (and sanity check), that if people have veiws on the subject, that they are expressed with respect and with consideration to the facts. Everyone has a right to an opinion and everybody else has the right to disagree with it. You even have the right to express it. The only caveat to that is as long as it's done with repsect, then we're cool.  8)

So, a request - keep it cool, folks. You know you want to!  

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[waveydavey]

My feeling on this is that even if it is not built with public (our) money then the funding should includ all the extras involved.
It's all good saying that we don't pay the building but if we have to pay for road and transport networks to it and extra policing for the thousands of people for years the we foot the bill forever.

The churches are a good analagy; if you look at any rural map then the footpaths and byways we all love are all centered on the churches.

[Rich_P]

So...  What about the situation where we are letting another building 'Out Shine' our famous landmarks and heritage?

The concept behind it is basically them building something bigger than what this country's main religion is.  As a result, it will typically (especially from the outside world I imagine) be viewed as we are Muslim and not Christian!  It's these conflictions that really do bother me.

Where has our national pride gone?  :roll:

[Boggert]

am still pagan much easyer ^^

he he he best answer to date!

I guess we'll have issues if a building no matter what it is signifies "Exclusion for another group" which a Mosque, church etc does.

To be honest i don't give a toss if they want to build one or not, its not something I have any interest in.

Could you do a lot with the money in the NHS or would it be lost in red tape and a large dark hole called “the government”???

[landy4x4xfar]

just remember 9/11 and 7/7 that started somewhere ?

[MudRat]

["If an organisation whether religious or political sprung up saying everyone else was wrong and at its extremes promotes suicide bombings (as several of the 7/7 terrorists attended mosques from this particular Islamic church)"]

Easy with those types of comments, catholics, IRA 1970s and 80s etc, did we then moan about catholic churches and gatherings?? Lets face facts, when was the last time you went anywhere for collective worship, and i am not talking about Billing for Collective LR worship!  :lol:  I am quite slack, but then i am an atheist, if you call yourself a christian ( not you Bulli, but in general to the forum) do you support your local church?

Anyway Love to all Men (and Women), but down with the Ramblers!!  

[Bulli]

strange you should ask but 2 weeks ago...wife and kids went on Sunday(i was tinkering with the disco, my main religion)... and no im not a bible thumper.

[jaws]

70000...hmmm where did i put my napalm????

thought we lived in a democratic country not one that rolls over and lets guests take the pee out of us...i pay tax, i recieve nothing in return.

the new olympic stadium is also a waste of our tax money, a white elephant, a lot like the dome! the country is run by monkeys. who couldn't find their own **** with a map an a compass!

[shaun and co]

leave it to the muppets that built wembley to build it and let the government "quote" for it- that way even if they could get the builders to work on it it would end up never being built as it would exceed budget by several hundred percent! :twisted: