banning bull bars

[way2deep]

i read in paper today that blair has agreed to back an eu move to ban bull bars within three years .apparently brussels don't like them.apparently we have no use for them here !try telling that to your headlights and bonnet!tests have shown that they account for three extra road deaths a year.why not ban go faster hatchbacks and save more lives?

[Tony W]

Mine save my Lights and grill after a stupid council van tryed to shorted my front over hang cracked my old bars

for the keen readers out there i know it was council cos of the paint left behind
or i pitty the poor person driving that colour green car

[Wanderer]

They've been trying that one for ages. Most vehicles that have them fitted would do damage whether or not the bars were fitted.

Ed

[Sooty]

When I was sold my Pajero the salesman said "it is fitted with an impact friendly bull bar" what he means is the bull bar is plastic and therefore won't hurt you if it hits you, which in a nut shell means you will live about 20 milliseconds longer before the 2 1/2 ton of LWB 4x4 that is holding up the plastic bull bar mashes you to a pulp.
You got to laugh :lol:  :lol:

[TULL]

Where else will I fit my spot lights if they get banned,and how else am i going to push my way through traffic, they also gave me somewhere to hold when pulling a dead car off the road when clutch failed.

[Wanderer]

Mind would scoop them up on to the bonnet, to a place of safety and then at the end drop them with a thump on the floor

Ed

[Range Rover Blues]

They've been trying that one for ages. Most vehicles that have them fitted would do damage whether or not the bars were fitted.

Ed

Damn right, If someone is stupid enough to step out in front of a 2-tonne Landie, which isn't exactly quiet and blocks out the sun, then they perhaps need nominating for a 'Darwin'

If the bar doesn't get them there are plenty of hard edges to crack their skulls open on following all too close behind!

I remember a few years ago, when I worked in Plastics, reading about an Aussie company who had got tired of bending the company Ute on Kangaroos and started rotamoulding 'Roo bars.  Not only did they protect the cars but also the Kangaroos, and best still being rotamouldings they return slowly to their original shape even after heavy damage.  Surely these are actually better than a 'naked' car!

Whatever happened to the green cross code anyway?[/i]

[way2deep]

look this is serious folks.repair costs are sometimes horrendous from off roading without panel damage as well!as for road use maybe we could qualify for a government grant for lift kits so we can drive over any one who crosses infront of us instead of into them.

[Range Rover Blues]

Yes, that's it!

[Mace]

I was surprised when I first got into off-roading that a dirty great winch on the front of a 4x4 would be street legal and pass an MOT. Don't get me wrong I love my LR and off roading but I wouldn't want my child or anyone else for that matter being polaxed by a winch or a bullbar at any speed. Adding a 2" lift and big tyres just brings it all much closer to child head height.

The same arguement could be used against Ferraris and the like where the front is so damn low and pointy it would cut your legs off below the knee and probably stick you 10 foot in the air.

Ban one, ban em all, unless they are all round soft and spongy of course. I've had the missfortune to stand and watch a child being run over infront of my own eyes. Anyway, nasty experience.

I still want the freedom to add bit's n bobs to my LR without burocrats telling me what to do but we all have to live with our own actions and our own conscience. However we all should have the freedom of choice.

[Wanderer]

I with you on this Mace but we have a higher driving position and can see over/around other vehicles so can spot kids earlier than most vehicles.
Personally I consider my driving habits have changed a lot since changing to the Discovery. I no longer hare around like a looney dashing from a to b and drive at a much more relaxed pace.

Someone pointed out that driving a series type vehicle means a lot more judging of the road and also conditions. I daren't tempt fate but I hope that I am never in collision with a child but most of the vehicles I have ever owned would do a lot of damage.

I suppose a matter for concern would be when people fit bull bars and feel safer themselves so take risks that they might not normally take due to bravado or whatever.

Ed

[muddyweb]

<controversial mode>

When I was a kid, we had road safety drummed into us all the time.  It strikes me that in more recent years, the driver or vehicle has become more increasingly "to blame", with less emphasis being put on keeping the kids roadwise.

The recent advert with the car that hits the child in the street.....  whilst dramatic, focussed entirely on the car travelling at 5mph above the speed limit, and whilst I don't approve of speeding in residential areas, there was no mention of why the child was crossing the road that close to a moving car, or why he wasn't using a crossing, or why he was crossing near parked cars.....

Any incident where people get hurt is of course bad, and we should as a society be working towards reducing the number of such incidents.  Personally I would like to see more attention paid to keeping pedestrians and vehicles away from each other, rather than imposing ever increasing restrictions on the construction of the vehicle.

Maybe we should have a Jaywalking offence, and start to make pedestrians take some responsibility ?

</controversial mode>

[Mace]

The accident I saw involved a 6 year old and a Ford Fiesta. The child made a bolt for it across the road next to a junction. The driver of the Fiesta had just pulled out of the junction so it was doing no more than 15mph when the girl ran out. Thump. There was nothing the driver could do, at all. It still takes time to stop from 15mph !!

No matter how careful we all are, accidents do happen. So I can quite clearly see why some circles want to ban all sticky out pointy bits. For me, I still believe in freedom of choice and being accountable for your actions, but that might not save a childs life !!

[Wanderer]

It's the same old story.
Maybe first they should start to uphold the laws we have before attempting to turn honest people into criminals or turning us into the scourge of the earth.

I very rarely do the school run but Lizzy's school is three miles from home. Normally she is taken on the bus or tram. When I do the run there are always parents parked on the zig zags endangering their own childs lifes as well as other peoples children.
Absolutely nothing, nadda gets done about it. There's a main police station not 100yds from the school.

Mention it to any of the parents and you get loads of abuse or accused or being racist a la Ali G "Is it coz I is black" No! It's because you could be tha cause of a death of a child.

One woman ranted at me playing the race card. A friend's wife told her I was an off duty trafficl cop and trying to "help" her.  :lol:
She gives a nod and wave these days and doesn't park there.

Ed

[Thrasher]

Today, on the way to work, I negotiated the usual right turn at a mini roundabout - and nearly rear ended a Corsa. She had gone round the roundabout and then slammed her brakes on about 3ft from the exit and decided to indicate right to park on the other side of the road...

Yes, there is a school. She could have parked further up, but no, 3 tons of Discovery behind her and she DID NOT SEE ME! This was re-enforced by the blast of the horn and flash of the "sun from the front". She jerked into motion and shifted - I and the 10 other cars behind me were most appreciative..until she stopped on the zig zag lines :(

She got a beep, more flashing and a window down, telling off from me :-)

[V8MoneyPit]

The problem with bull bars is their use on more modern vehicles with deformable structures (crumple zones). Fitment of a rigid bar changes the way the car perfoms in a crash. If it doesn't deform properly the energy has to be transmitted elsewhere. If it is another car being hit, the penetration would then be greater with an associated increase in risk of occupant injury.

However, on a ladder frame chassis vehicle, like a Defender for example. There is no designed in deformable structure. Adding a bull bar will therefore have little or no effect on crash penetration of another vehicle.

There are other arguements about pedestrian safety. I am not so sure about the differences there. As previously said, 2 tonnes of vehicle are going to do a fair bit of damage anyway.

[Bob696]

I suppose a matter for concern would be when people fit bull bars and feel safer themselves so take risks that they might not normally take due to bravado or whatever.

Its called "Risk compensation" and is much talked about in "powered 2 wheels" circles (pun not intended). In a nutshell, the more at risk you feel the more care you take when driving. To improove driving standards T. E Lawrence suggested that all cars be fitted with a 6" spike on the steering wheel (this was in the 1920s!!!)

In the 70s, 80s and 90s most of the crap drivers drove Volvo 240s as they were deemed to be the safetest car on the road for the occupants, they felt safer so they took more risks and caused more accidents. Today these people drive "urban 4x4s". If they are banned they will switch to something else that is advertised as "safe".

School run, ha! "The roads arnt safe any more so I am going to take little Johnny to school in the car".
On the rare occasion I get to leave school at 3.15 I dont bother. It takes 30 mins for the traffic jam to clear outside the school.
I have never heard road safety mentioned in a classroom (the goverment must have forgot to put it into the National curriculum) and I agree that pedestrians should shoulder some of the resposability for their actions (and parents of young kids should remember to hold their hands near a road).
God help all motorists if "No fault liability" is ever introduced as some safety campaigners want :roll:

[V8MoneyPit]

Spot on. If you ask most people what makes a car 'safe' they will comment on air bags, vehicle size, seat belts, etc. Some may mention side impact bars and deformable structure. All secondary safety. But few people will mention anything to do with primary safety. Like vehicle handling, ABS brakes and the most important of all, the feeling of vulnerability!

[hobbit]

Spot on. If you ask most people what makes a car 'safe'

not having a loose nut behind the wheel helps  :?  :lol:  :lol:

[Wanderer]

I'd heard the bit about a spike in the steering wheel before. A bit like when I go to the dentist and cup his you know whats and say "this won't hurt me will it?"

Self preservation is a wonderful thing. Defensive driving and thinking the other guy will do whatever you least expect helps.

Ed

[way2deep]

maybe justification is the thing.if you can prove that your vehicle is used for off roading (which is where they are needed )as opposed to just a "look good poser feature".then should you be allowed to keep them on.good idea ?????????????????????? :D

[muddyweb]

Yeah, about as good as having to prove that you *need* to own a 4x4 before you are allowed to drive it in a town....  no thanks.   :?

[Wanderer]

There'd then be no market for new stuff as we tend to use older vehicles. Can't see many people buying a brand new 4x4 and wanting to take it where it is meant to go.
With no market for new stuff there's be no second hand market and no spares back up as 4x4 ownership dwindled.

Start with the real big gas guzzlers and see how much support there is when the politicians can't run round in Jags etc.

Ed

[V8MoneyPit]

The real big gas guzzlers are aeroplanes and trains. But I can't see them changing their outlook on those.

[muddysteve]

Start with the real big gas guzzlers

You leave the gas guzzlers alone if it wasn't for the trains i wouldnt be able to afford to put the petrol in my V8  

Steve