Police again

[Bush Tucker Man]

LOL isn't that the same as "diversity training"

That's the one job title that thankfully doesn't exist at our Hospital........ yet.

They like to bang on about peoples rights and if some one is violent to a member of staff then that person is Red carded (Oooooooooh)

We have the Red & Yellow card system, but I've never seen it used.

All this means is the next time they get admitted to A&E they are fast tracked through the department to get rid of them

If a patient is known to be violent/abusive, security are informed as soon as he/she walks through the door. Then, at their discretion, the Police can be informed.

A patient was getting mouthy with me and eventually tried to punch me, unfortunately  for him I was in the middle of an acrimonious divorce and was having a particularly bad day. Patient was stretchered back to his ward and I felt much better until I got carpeted by HR. I argued my case and there was no further action

I had my nose broken by a junkie.
He'd been brought into Resus, as he'd been found on a street -corner collapsed & unconcious, so after the 'Narcan'  had done its work he caem round :roll:
What a totally charmless individual he turned out to be..............

He started arguing with 2 of the Sisters & a staff-nurse about wanting to leave, we wanted to observe him due to the large lump on his head.

He eventually calmed down & we agreed to his leaving (if he signed himself out)
I was showing him where to get out when he turned round & 'WALLOP!', he caught me a good one on the nose - in front of 5 witnesses, CCTV & another patient.
(one of the other Nurses who was about 5yards away told me later she heard the 'crack' :lol: )
I tried to grab him, but had made the mistake of feeling my nose first, so couldn't hold him due to greasy (blood covered) hands.
Next thing I see, 16stone of (ex- Yorkshire Schoolboys) r*gby playing Doctor slams him into the floor :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Then several of Wakefields finest roll up & sling him head first into the van. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Of course since then, we've been told that we are allowed to act in self-defence if we feel our patient, our collegues, or if you yourself feels threatened & really anticipate trouble from a patient.
But we all have doubts as to whether the Trust would side with you, if you're seen to strike a patient, even if you feel threatened - after all a witness may give a perspective that's at odds with your account

With diversity training they should tell the patients and visitors that they should speak to the staff in the same manner that they want to be spoken to - they might get a bit further

Good grief :shock: , that wouldn't work, it's not PC to tell people how to behave (unless it suits the cause of the PC brigade)

[Highlander1]

Hi Bush tucker man

You can use as much force as is necessary to regain compliance and control of the situation anything from shouting at them to getting them out by dragging them by the arm, or if required and you know your going to be attacked stop the attack by bringing them down.


Just ask yourself is it justified. but do it quickly and have the Bds before they have you. Self defence isn't retaliation IE once the knifes gone in you don't then give him a pasting.

You've got to protect yourself and others using force if necessary.

If someone came over the wire and you shot him. You'd have committed a crime if you couldn't  prove that you thought he was about to kill some IE gun raised bomb on back etc.

If a car was driving deliberately at you you couldn't shoot unless there was no way of jumping out of the way.

Hope the nose healed OK.

H1

[Bush Tucker Man]

Hi Bush tucker man
You can use as much force as is necessary to regain compliance and control of the situation anything from shouting at them to getting them out by dragging them by the arm, or if required and you know your going to be attacked stop the attack by bringing them down.

I was told I'd be put on a 'Control & Restraint' course after the event, but when asked why I didn't attend, I had to say I never received notification (this was in early 2006. Nose broken October 2005)
About a month ago, one of our Consultants secretarys gave me a letter with an apology, she'd found it behind a filing cabinet (must have been on top & slid off?)

Just ask yourself is it justified. but do it quickly and have the Bds before they have you. Self defence isn't retaliation IE once the knifes gone in you don't then give him a pasting.

You've got to protect yourself and others using force if necessary.

Well there's obviously plenty of loud & aggresive drunks that deserve it, but I've never seen it done yet by staff.
Restraint of a drunken/head-injured patient who is 'thrashy'/combative on a trolley happens all the time though, but that's only in order to treat them - I walked in on Saturday morning & had to help with this before even havin a cup of tea

Hope the nose healed OK.

H1

It did eventually, but is still very offset :lol:
Still he ended up in Court, after much persuasion - by members on here as well!! (I didn't want to be an 'Ambulance Chaser') I got compensation from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Good on you BTM, for pushing that.
I recall the 'good old days' when there was such a thing as summary justice, not that I condone that sort of thing of course! :roll:
I had been injured along with 12 other officers following a huge disturbance on Great Yarmouth Seafront., and ended up with fractured ribs after being stamped on. Nice. I was taken to the local A&E and was met by the staff, who were absoulutely ace.
Shortly after one of the 'main opposition players' was brought in. He was being exteremely obnoxious to the staff and hade to have stitches after he had headbutted a baton. It was pointed to the staff what part he had played.
Funnily enough they became very short of anesthetic all of a sudden. I wonder how that happened? :?

[thermidorthelobster]

Of course since then, we've been told that we are allowed to act in self-defence if we feel our patient, our collegues, or if you yourself feels threatened & really anticipate trouble from a patient.

We're allowed to do something similar with the kids at school - physically intervene if we think they are going to injure themselves, another person or even the school's property.  I think that refers to restraint, though, rather than actually lamping them.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

electric cattle prods! Thats the answer!

[Boggert]

After being kicked, punched and spat at the other week...I'll have one! :lol:  :twisted:

[Highlander1]

You should stop jumpiing the que at Macdonalds then. :lol:

[Bush Tucker Man]

Good on you BTM, for pushing that.

When it happened I wasn't bothered about compensation, as I stated, I see it as Ambulance Chasing, but as was pointed out to me (by family, collegues & on here) you don't go to work to be punched by scrotes.
So, still with some misgivings I went to the Union & started the ball rolling, it took 14months to get the payment
(& I still probably got less half what I'd receive if I'd tripped over a paving flag :lol: )

I recall the 'good old days' when there was such a thing as summary justice, not that I condone that sort of thing of course! :roll:

No, I know, it never happened, just as the 'old hands' that I've spoken to tell me :lol:

Nice. I was taken to the local A&E and was met by the staff, who were absoulutely ace.

Shortly after one of the 'main opposition players' was brought in. He was being exteremely obnoxious to the staff and hade to have stitches after he had headbutted a baton. It was pointed to the staff what part he had played.
Funnily enough they became very short of anesthetic all of a sudden. I wonder how that happened? :?

I've heard of that as well.
"Sorry, the anaesthetics run out, can we stitch those Police Alsation teeth-marks in your posterior without it?"


Plus, with a wife-beater;
(Doctor) "Well Mr XX, the Police Officer tells me you have no feelings.. (sticks a large bore cannula in him 'with force')
But you certainly bl**dy felt that didn't you!!" :lol:

electric cattle prods! Thats the answer!

We keep asking for them from Supplies, but to no avail
I think we'll by-pass 'management' & go speak to Medical Physics & get them to make some for us

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

One day, the lunatics (us) will take over the asylum!

[Boggert]

Plus, with a wife-beater;
(Doctor) "Well Mr XX, the Police Officer tells me you have no feelings.. (sticks a large bore cannula in him 'with force')
But you certainly bl**dy felt that didn't you!!" :lol:

 :shock: LOL Youch! :lol:

Anyone who beats their wives are the lowest of the low... Now I'm like everyone else I fall out with my good lady from time to tome, but I would never raise my hand to her.

[Bush Tucker Man]

I forgot.

One of our Nurses was the victim of an attempted strangulation a while ago :twisted:  

The drunken scrote had apparantly already had a go at one of the male Nurses, but had had his hands knocked away.

Whilst waiting for Security & due to a mistake with the Triage cards, he was re-seen by one of the girls & she got to the point of almost fainting due to asphyxiation before someone came into the cubicle & got him off her.
Scum-bag!

I do so hope he resisted arrest



And so the battle goes on :roll:

This is an old case, but I took notice of it at the time.
Just look at the last paragraph & note that the CPS never prosecuted!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4755924.stm

Presumably it was either due to that old chestnut; Not In The Public Interest' (which it surely is!!), or 'Lack Of Evidence'??

Now without wishing to cause any offence in the slightest to our members on here who are part of 'The Thin Blue Line'; if that had been a Police Officer who had been assaulted in the course of his/her duties, would the CPS have given the same result?

I ask as this case also discussed quite widely at our Trust (on at least in our department)
The concensus of opinion was that he'd have been sent down for as long as possible if it had been a Bobbie.

[BigBlue90]

The concensus of opinion was that he'd have been sent down for as long as possible if it had been a Bobbie.

Not in my experience more likely to be told that is expected in your line of work!!!!!

That was for a fractured elbow with 4 witnesses two of whom were members of the public. Lack of any cctv evidence and the above comment about it being expected were the reasons given by the 'criminal protection service'

[Llanigraham]

I love the attitude by our local Ambulance Trust when faced by aggressive "customers".
They ask if they wish to be treated, and if they refuse walk away, on the grounds that if the "injury" is severe enough they will soon pass out, and then can be treated with "restraint".
Amazing how successful a couple of bandages can be!!

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I forgot.

One of our Nurses was the victim of an attempted strangulation a while ago :twisted:  

The drunken scrote had apparantly already had a go at one of the male Nurses, but had had his hands knocked away.

Whilst waiting for Security & due to a mistake with the Triage cards, he was re-seen by one of the girls & she got to the point of almost fainting due to asphyxiation before someone came into the cubicle & got him off her.
Scum-bag!

I do so hope he resisted arrest



And so the battle goes on :roll:

This is an old case, but I took notice of it at the time.
Just look at the last paragraph & note that the CPS never prosecuted!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4755924.stm

Presumably it was either due to that old chestnut; Not In The Public Interest' (which it surely is!!), or 'Lack Of Evidence'??

Now without wishing to cause any offence in the slightest to our members on here who are part of 'The Thin Blue Line'; if that had been a Police Officer who had been assaulted in the course of his/her duties, would the CPS have given the same result?

I ask as this case also discussed quite widely at our Trust (on at least in our department)
The concensus of opinion was that he'd have been sent down for as long as possible if it had been a Bobbie.

I hate to say this but, I've had assault Police cases dropped by CPS because the practice of 'plea bargaining', which apparently doesn't go on, did go on.
I kicked up a stink about and was told in court by the 'supposed learned counsel' that I should accept being assaulted as part of my job, and if he had his way, he wouldn't prosecute for it.
I put in a complaint, and the brown smelly stuff hit the metallic whirly thing.

[Bush Tucker Man]

I hate to say this but, I've had assault Police cases dropped by CPS because the practice of 'plea bargaining', which apparently doesn't go on, did go on.
I kicked up a stink about and was told in court by the 'supposed learned counsel' that I should accept being assaulted as part of my job, and if he had his way, he wouldn't prosecute for it.
I put in a complaint, and the brown smelly stuff hit the metallic whirly thing.

Being assaulted shouldn't be a part of anyones job. The Police deserves as much respect as anyone else.
Sadly, however it does come with the territory for you guys (& girls)  :(

Every Friday/Saturday when I'm on lates I expect to see at least 1 totally obnoxious & charmless waste of DNA.

I'm glad to hear that the said brown stuff did its job when put in contact with the whrling blades :D

[Boggert]

I have only been assulted at work once thank goodness and they was a few weeks ago and its going no where as the idiot CCT operator was distracted by a car and took the camera off the officers who were trying to make an arrest! :roll:

I guess that ford focus was a risk to all! :roll:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I have only been assulted at work once thank goodness and they was a few weeks ago and its going no where as the idiot CCT operator was distracted by a car and took the camera off the officers who were trying to make an arrest! :roll:

I guess that ford focus was a risk to all! :roll:

Perhaps it was a fudamentalist insurgent Ford Focus!

[welshlaner]

Interesting this thread

picked up this quote


"We have the Red & Yellow card system, but I've never seen it used."

now i know someone quite old who has several minor health problems quite harmless and never been in tourable before

but he claims he is treated differently at hospitial, clinics and the like claims he is followed by secuirty, always seen first, doors left open, doctors ask nurses to attend examinations, even his wife notices a difference.

his surname is simialar to a pretty rough local family but no connection case of mistaken identity ? , does not mind though never spent more than a hour on car parking charges saves a cool fortune.

[Bush Tucker Man]

I love the attitude by our local Ambulance Trust when faced by aggressive "customers".
They ask if they wish to be treated, and if they refuse walk away, on the grounds that if the "injury" is severe enough they will soon pass out, and then can be treated with "restraint".
Amazing how successful a couple of bandages can be!!

I believe that our local Trust has the same attitude.

I do know that if a drunken/obnoxious patient starts spitting on the floor of the 'drunk-mobile', if they don't stop when asked, a very tightly applied oxygen mask does the trick for the crews.

If the patient is 'fighty'/'combative'/etc.... be it from alcohol/medication/head-injury/fitting, etc... two crews will be involved.

If it's that bad, one 'Drunk-Mobile' will be left 'at scene', with 3 in the back with patient & one driving, thankfully it's rarely that bad, usually the 2nd vehicle will follow with one crew member driving.



On a slight digression;
Recently our Security staff asked for stab-proof vests, but were refused them by management.
When asked why, they were told that it was a 'calculated risk' not to issue them.
But, after all, what members of management are doing what they do?
(I must add that it wasn't their own manager who said "No" to them, it was from above)

I've taken a carving knife off someone, thankfully he was drunk enough to be compliant & not aggresive with it.
I've never told SWMBO, as she'd go ballistic with me

Although, if he'd threatened me with it, I'd have still had to ask him for it, due to the possible risk to female staff (or hit him with a Fire Extinguisher!!)


Also, it's not so long since one of the Security staff was threatened with a rifle! (the guy ended up getting shot dead by Armed Police in nearby woodland!)
http://www.wakefieldtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=702&articleid=318056

[Boggert]

I have only been assulted at work once thank goodness and they was a few weeks ago and its going no where as the idiot CCT operator was distracted by a car and took the camera off the officers who were trying to make an arrest! :roll:

I guess that ford focus was a risk to all! :roll:

Perhaps it was a fudamentalist insurgent Ford Focus!

It could have been something to do with the long legs getting out of the car that made him put us at risk :roll: