range rover gear in a series 2a

[adrian connor]

i have a series 2a land rover with a v8 and the sulsbury diffs.. I want to put range rover diffs and suspention in it , im just wanting to know how much work is involved and what is the best way to do it also opinions would be very much appriciated

[fordlltwm]

You wont get Rangie diffs into a salisbury.
And you CAN'T fit Coil sus to a Series.

[ian_s]

coils on a series can be done, you only need to fabricate spring mounts, shock mounts, radius arm mounts, panhard rod mount, trailing arm mounts, a frame mounts..........

[Lucy1978]

coils on a series can be done, you only need to fabricate spring mounts, shock mounts, radius arm mounts, panhard rod mount, trailing arm mounts, a frame mounts..........

then register it on a Q plate.

[ian_s]

why?
all you have changed is the suspension type and the axles

if you still have the original chassis (which you would if you fabricated new brackets) thats 5 points, 2 for the gearbox, 2 for the steering, theres your 8 points

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199

[Bob Ajob]

Hi Adrian,

In answer to your question, a Rover diff from a Ranger Rover will NOT fit into a Salisbury diff. What you will need to do is to change the rear axle to a standard Series Rover axle, then you can swap the diffs. The front you will not have to do anything with as this will be a Rover axle anyway.

Is it a SWB or LWB Landy you have? No real bearing on the answer, though I would suspect you have a LWB unless you have a Salisbury axle which has been specially modified for a SWB, which is definitely sell / swapable.

The question on Range Rover suspension, assuming you mean coils and not airsprung, I would ask why do you want coils? If it is for comfort and road handling, get some new leaf springs, and oil them when you do a service. Or get Parabolic springs. There is much involved in changing to coils, including removal of old mounts, welding on brand new mounts (you can't really cut them off the old RR axle). Plus there are DVLA points issues which can affect you historic vehicle (hence free tax) status.

If you really want coils, and a Series IIa look (rather than just tax exemption), why not get a 90 / 110, transplant the V8, and replace the front with a Series front? Probably less work involved all round...

So, just to re-iterate, what's your reasoning behind wanting coils?

Regards,
Robert.
p.s. What's your location?

[Lucy1978]

why?
all you have changed is the suspension type and the axles

if you still have the original chassis (which you would if you fabricated new brackets) thats 5 points, 2 for the gearbox, 2 for the steering, theres your 8 points

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199

the following is taken from the website you posted.

The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used, an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

The key part is modified chassis.  If you can fit coil suspension without modifying the chassis to accept it then you get to keep your existing plates and tax exemption.  If not you get a Q plate and pay road tax.

[ian_s]

so you are saying that any change to the chassis makes it modified.
how come when people change the bodys, they retain the reg of the chassis? All the body mounts have to be changed, which by your reasoning means you lose the 5 points for the chassis.

[Lucy1978]

There's a bit of a difference between changing non-structural elements such as body mounts and changing the fundemental design of the chassis to take a suspension system it was never intended to have.

[ian_s]

body mounts are harldy non-structural.

[electricbluebadger]

Normally you would adapt the body to fit the chassis, do that you have no problem,
otherwise you are altering the chassis, try telling an MOT tester that body mounts are not structural, hence the MOT fail if you have body rot within a set distance of any body mount.

Cheers Steve

[Lucy1978]

On a vehicle with a seperate chassis the body mounts don't really have much effect on the integrity of the vehicle as the bodywork itself is really just cosmetic.

[ian_s]

body mounts are just as important as suspension mounts

so what about people who fit 3 or 4 link suspension kits that need new mounts? by your reckoning that makes them needing a q plate too

[Lucy1978]

body mounts are just as important as suspension mounts

If that's true why is it you can quite happily strip your truck down and remove all the body work and drive it around.  Remove the suspension mounts and you're not going anywhere.

I don't make the rules up.  The DVLA website clearly states that if you use a modified chassis you have to have a ESVA test and you'll be given a Q plate.

I suspect that if the letter of the law was followed precisly that the folk with the 4 link suspension systems, etc probably should have to undergo a ESVA but it's all about what you can get away with.

[Andy the Landy]

If you want coils, why not go and buy a coiler - much less work all round  

[screwy]

I have to say I side with Chris here. There are also tow or three arguments going on different paths.

The original post being the one to stick to has asked about fitting different suspenison and axles and has had his points answered (I think).

Chris's interpretation of the DVLA rules is also correct on this: changing suspension mountings on a leaf-sprung chassis to a coil sprung one is modifying without question, and hence would require to have a Q plate, period.

The latter argument regarding bodywork is just daft. A body mount in a landrover cannot be compared structually to the suspenison mounts, again as Chris has pointed out. The 'structure' of the landrover is its chassis and the bulkhead. Everything else is not structural because of itself it does not hold the vehicle together, surely the definition of structure.

And the MOT interpetation is for MOTs and NOT deciding the vehicles taxation class, whereby different rules and interpretations may apply.

My opinion? Stop ruining Series motors with coils and bolt on crap! If you want a tricked up coiler, get one and if you must, put a series look on that as someone said above, much easier than the other way round and less complicated on the 'rules' side too.

[Kevs2A]

body mounts are just as important as suspension mounts

so what about people who fit 3 or 4 link suspension kits that need new mounts? by your reckoning that makes them needing a q plate too

Yeah it does actually; most people will get away with it though. It's a bit different to murdering a Series truck and fitting coils though really isn't it?

In answer to your question, a Rover diff from a Ranger Rover will NOT fit into a Salisbury diff. What you will need to do is to change the rear axle to a standard Series Rover axle, then you can swap the diffs. The front you will not have to do anything with as this will be a Rover axle anyway.

Or keep the Salisbury and use the crown & pinion set from a 110, or find a Stage 1 V8 rear axle. Same ratio as the RR diffs.

You're on a different planet if you think a series with new springs or paras can ride as well as a Rangie or a Deafener but that is the whole point - they are so totally different from anything else and thats what makes them a Series.

[greatbignath]

how would i stand if i put a series body on a rangie chassis, making a 100 inch series?

[fire boy si]

guys

why are we still arguing about points system this has been covered thousands of times a chassis is regarded by dvla and vosa as the main frame this DOES NOT include mountings for body and suspention. You would lose your tax exempt status if you were to shorten or lengthen it in any way as this is moding the chassis

good luck putin um under your 2a

regard

[screwy]

I hate to argue, honestly, but the suspension points for a leaf-sprung landrover are integral to the main frame! Body mounts are not.

But I think all this is missing the point, and here's the rub - why bother? Why hack a Series chassis to make a coiler? Why not just get a coiler even if you subsequently make it look like a series? It has to be easier not just from the legal side but mainly from the work involved and the technical side.

So leaving the DVLA stuff aside, why don't you get a coiler?? :?

[ian_s]

The 'structure' of the landrover is its chassis and the bulkhead.

thats funny, the bulkhead is part of the bodywork....

If that's true why is it you can quite happily strip your truck down and remove all the body work and drive it around.

not legally you cant. you'd be breaking the construction and use regs.

why are we still arguing about points system this has been covered thousands of times a chassis is regarded by dvla and vosa as the main frame this DOES NOT include mountings for body and suspention. You would lose your tax exempt status if you were to shorten or lengthen it in any way as this is moding the chassis

:) thankyou

[Canada Al]

Back to the original question , the RR box is permanant four wheel drive and the series front axle is not designed for that . You would need to fit CV type joints instead of the Hooks joints you have .

[screwy]

Ian, are you seriously suggesting then that the bulkhead is of the same structural integrity as the front wing or the rear tailgate? Please. The bulkhead is a part of the body second, but first and foremost its function is that of structure, i.e. everything else fits to it, not it to everything else as in the rest of the body work. I think you're really being pedantic to the extreme here.

And no-one has answered the original question I have placed which is why bother changing the hardest part to make a series a coiler when it is far simpler all round to make a coiler look like a series??

Is that a tought question, or is it more likely that this entire thread is more of an excuse for a good fight rather than a serious discussion about the engineering merits of a particular conversion that youo originally asked? It seem rather daft to ask a question and then argue like hell over your given replies - if you disagree so vehmently with the offered opinions, then clearly you have already set in your mind your own answers so why bother asking in the first place??

 :roll:  ](*,)

[Bob Ajob]

Back to the original author (adrian connor), and the origin of this thread...

i have a series 2a land rover with a v8 and the sulsbury diffs.. I want to put range rover diffs and suspention in it , im just wanting to know how much work is involved and what is the best way to do it also opinions would be very much appriciated

A couple of choices are available regarding the diffs, either replace the rear Salisbury with a standard axle and replace the diff with a 3.54:1 from a Rangie. Downside is the Salisbury is a much stronger axle than a standard.

Or keep the Salisbury and use the crown & pinion set from a 110, or find a Stage 1 V8 rear axle. Same ratio as the RR diffs.

I didn't know that Kev!! The first part sounds a better solution to me, you'll have difficulty finding a Stage 1 v8 rear axle.

As you can see, suspension is a bit of an issue, you'll probably find this on any forum, or anywhere you ask. The question is always why, and the answers always surround Q plates. What do you really want regarding suspension, a softer ride?

For a softer ride, oil your springs regularly with an old oil & diesel mix and stick some weight in the back - a couple of 3x2 concrete flags ought to do it. Stick a big heavy winch on the front, it doesn't have to work, just for extra weight to stop a bit of bounce. As a side thought, you could fabricate some mounts where the apron is between rad and bumper, and stick an ammo box there which you could fill with rocks...

[MuddyMike]

body mounts are just as important as suspension mounts

I don't make the rules up.  The DVLA website clearly states that if you use a modified chassis you have to have a ESVA test and you'll be given a Q plate.

I modified the body mounts to build my hybrid when I built it, adding series outriggers to the original RR chassis etc. This was inspected by the local vehicle licensing dept inspector on two occasions (but that's another story) and I had no problem keeping the original reg and tax free status.

Mike

[MuddyMike]

guys

 You would lose your tax exempt status if you were to shorten or lengthen it in any way as this is moding the chassis

regard

Again I shortened mine in two places to make the RR chassis take the 88inch Lightweight body and the inspector had no issues with that. Incidentally I would not condone simply welding coin sprung suspension mounts onto a leaf sprung chassis. Simply because the leaf chassis is designed to spread the load over two points per spring, and is not designed to take the load on one point per spring as is the case with coils. That plan sound like a recipe for disaster to me without a lot of strengthening.

Mike

[fire boy si]

i'll agree to disagree with that comment dude if you want coil springs then that fine its easyer to chop a rangie chassis up then to put the parts on a series chassis to take coils etc  :)

[adrian connor]

with my shorty i do not ever plan on getting it registerd it will be a fun toy and i dont care about comfort in my short and it has a rear salsbury diff and housing....
the reason i want the range rover suspention gear in a landy is for the clearence and also because it would be fun to do...and i plan on puting a ford 302 with a t-18 or t-19 toploader behind it atached to a landy transfer case......and it is never going to get registerd.............

[MattMatt]

Just to add my 2p

Will the RR axles etc give you more clearance?

I have a designa chassis - 88 inch coil sprung with RR axles, Britpart coil springs and standard shocks.  I don't think I've got any more clearance or much more articulation than my mates original series with good parabolics.  Infact, he p**ses all over me on some RTV trial sections (yea ok - it's probalby my crap driving as well)

Before you carry out all that work, go and find someone who has a good series and really compare it with what you want.  Unless you fit extended shocks, dislocation cones etc etc I doubt you'll get much/alot more than they have.

Having said all that - mine was and is good fun as I spend more hours than I care to think about fiddling about.

[screwy]

with my shorty i do not ever plan on getting it registerd it will be a fun toy and i dont care about comfort in my short and it has a rear salsbury diff and housing....
the reason i want the range rover suspention gear in a landy is for the clearence and also because it would be fun to do...and i plan on puting a ford 302 with a t-18 or t-19 toploader behind it atached to a landy transfer case......and it is never going to get registerd.............

Okay then, that's fair play BUT the consensus would still be that for you it would be far easier to either scratch build or alter a rangie or coiler chassis to suit, both of which have srping mounts and are designed for the kinds of axles and suspension you want to use. To purposefully  go the route of hacking a series spring chassis about to make the vehicle you want seems daft, hard work, for poorer results.:?