I see that Staun are taking a stance against UK rip-offs

[SteveG]

http://www.staunproducts.com/news_full.php?id=40&news=1

Good to see that they are taking a stance against certain rip-off retailers that take their money to market and set up a demand for a product, sponsor events etc only to then rip them off behind their backs and get the product copied elsewhere.

This has happened too often with UK and overseas manufacturers supporting our sport/hobby with innovative products.

Cheers

Steve

[Range Rover Blues]

Thing is it's a free market and if someone can copy a design and make it for less then they will.  What we as consumers have to be careful of is the quallity of the copy and do we support the innovative design etc of the origianl manufacturer? just look at the X-brake as an example, I will buy mine from X-Eng on principal.

[TDi90]

a cirtain company springs to mind... hmm what they called again scorp....... oh yes that its...scorpian racing      

[strapping young lad]

CAREFUL!

besides

unless its patented not much people can do i guess?

[SteveG]

I think it is patented, but it's expensive to patent in every major market you plan to sell in. Then even if you do and someone then breaches your patent, it's expensive to take to court. Now if they were to win they would get costs back, but companies of this size don't have the funds and cash flow to fight such cases.

What gets me is how a certain retailer still uses their logos on adverts and the website while they have been peddling their knock-off equivalent for the last couple of months and placing the knock-off equivalent in the new products pages of the the LR and 4x4 mags over the last couple of months. As said above it's a free market and some people have no ethics.

Cheers

Steve

[Range Rover Blues]

That's exaclty how a certain de-odourant dodging computer tycoon got where he is today, by ripping off someone else's ideas and selling them as his own.

[datalas]

http://www.staunproducts.com/news_full.php?id=39&news=1

is a much funnier link :D

[CNorman]

Talking from experience i know that even the "little guys" can have their products produced abroad.

Also a patent, as far as i am aware applies to individual countrys.

Sorry to say it but that is nothing more than feeble rantings! Do they not think that individuals can make up their own minds over quality.

They have just the same rights as anyone else to produce their parts where they wish and charge what they wish.

My opinion is that if they were that good then they would be purchased for what they represent. That crap would put me right off buying their own products. Pathetic.

[CNorman]

It gets better

ATTENTION UK CUSTOMERS


IT HAS BEEN BOUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION THAT SCORPION RACING A FORMER RESELLER OF STAUN PRODUCTS, WHILE ADVERTISING STAUN TYRE DEFLATORS IS IN FACT SUPPLYING A CHEAP CHINESE COPY. WHILE NOT STATING THEY ARE STAUN THEY ARE BEING SOLD AS AN OPTION. STAUN WISH TO MAKE IT CLEAR IT DOES NOT SUPPLY SCORPION WITH ITS PRODUCTS AND SUGGESTS THAT SCORPION IS SELLING A PRODUCT PURELY ON PRICE AND SUPPLY A TOTALY INFERIOR PRODUCT IN BOTH QUAILTY AND PERFORMANCE.

What a sour group of guys, if Scorpion Racing were duing something illegal such as misselling products then Staun would do something about it not just carry on moaning.

Certainlly wont be buying anything from Staun!

[davidlandy]

oh dear... at it again it appears

[SteveG]

It gets better
What a sour group of guys, if Scorpion Racing were duing something illegal such as misselling products then Staun would do something about it not just carry on moaning.

Certainlly wont be buying anything from Staun!

Who says they are not? Their "rants and ravings" as you put it are part of a public awareness campaign of the practices of these past resellers. This is especially relevant when a company that no longer is an official supplier still uses Staun's logos, pictures and marketing copy in adverts and online.

btw it seems to me from your responses that you see no problem in lack of integrity and business ethics.

Cheers

Steve

[CNorman]

If Scorpion racing are advertising and retailing Staun products that are not genuine then they would be breaking the law. Blatently.

What about Scorpion Racings reputation i have to say that if i were Staun i would be involving the likes of trading standerds and not publishing stuff on their website. What is the difference between Staun publishing an OPINION which is completly unsubstantiated and me doing the same.

I could claim that Landrovers are retailing landrovers made by santana or some other crud like that, but of course i wouldnt if it were my business. I would involve trading standards or someone with some authority.

The first rule of sales is dont rubbish the competition...

[Xtremeteam]

If Scorpion racing are advertising and retailing Staun products that are not genuine then they would be breaking the law. Blatently.

What about Scorpion Racings reputation i have to say that if i were Staun i would be involving the likes of trading standerds and not publishing stuff on their website. What is the difference between Staun publishing an OPINION which is completly unsubstantiated and me doing the same.

I could claim that Landrovers are retailing landrovers made by santana or some other crud like that, but of course i wouldnt if it were my business. I would involve trading standards or someone with some authority.

The first rule of sales is dont rubbish the competition...

you dont work for or have something to do with scrapiron?

[TDi90]

scorpion... again  
they should all be ashamed of themselves.
its not the first time...  :x

[SteveG]

The first rule of sales is dont rubbish the competition...

1st rule of sales is listen.  I take it you don't sell.

Cheers

Steve

[CNorman]

No i dont have anything to do with scorpion, i dont work in sales either, i work in manufacturing.

I just think that this kind of publication does nothing but harm businesses. From my experience (work with small manufacturing firms) if someone retails products that are not as described or from the manufacturers then they can be removed with relitive ease.

I am just supprised that Staun have not phoned Scorpion to tell them to stop or involved trading standards etc, if they are telling the truth...


What good does there words do? They are damaging scorpion and TBH i think if Scorpion were aware of this you would probably see them taking further action.

I have friends that have used Scorpion and speak very highly of them, the text above certainly does not seem to tie in with what i haear about Scorpion Racing.

[Evilgoat]

Please do some careful reading of other threads on here. This isnt just a smear campaign and You'll find it mentioned on other forums, in particualy a certain comapnies dodgy radius arms have almost killed a couple of people.

You are also assuming that the company posting those notices isnt taking legal action. In there position I'd do the same, and only announce the legal action after. After all, who's business is it that I decide to sue X company for ripping off my products.

Been there, seen it, done it, won the case thankyouverymuch :)

[Wolfie]

Having looked at the retailers website, they appear to be currently offering 2 types of deflator, the Staun one and the other one. Perhaps they still have stock of the Staun one.

Now looking at the two deflators there are differences in design in that the Staun valve is calibrated by setting one tyre to the desired pressure and then adjusting the deflator to suit, as shown in the video at http://www.staunproducts.com/videos/Staun26.mpg wheras the other type is precalibrated to a number of different settings.

The other design appears to be the one produced by a British company http://www.cbdevelopments.co.uk/cb-dev.asp

Does anyone know how long they have been producing their deflator?

I have no connection with any of the companies involved, and no desire to promote any product over another. I'm just putting forward the possibility that there is more to the story than the side being offered by one of the prties.

[CNorman]

Evilgoat, i am about 90% sure that you are unable to publicise information as they have if you are following legal precedings.

I will bow down however have to say that i will alwys take the opinion that this is sour grapes.

Thanks

[Xtremeteam]

Cnorman,
i would advise you to have a loon on LR4x4.com as there is plenty threads on there with details of scrapiron's business practices

[SteveG]

Wolfie - the ones on the website are not the Staun copy. The copy looks externally identical to Staun, just without the "STAUN PRODUCTS" lettering on the top ring. Scorpion have placed pictures of this product and announced it as a new product, plus pricing in the "New Products" section of various 4x4 mags and IIRC all the LR mags, at the same time still using the Staun logos, pics and marketing copy in their adverts and on the website.

As far as I know, Staun, have spent money successfully protecting their patents in Australia and North America and so there is nothing stopping them from doing the same in Europe. Only thing affecting this would be time and money. Don't under estimate the costs involved of hiring UK lawyers to do this. I have no idea whether they intend to prosecute or not. The UK/Europe may not be a big enough market for them to make it worthwhile. Remember they are still growing the market here.

I have friends that have used Scorpion and speak very highly of them, the text above certainly does not seem to tie in with what i hear about Scorpion Racing.

So you are showing your true colours now. You base your arguments/position based on the fact that your friends think they are a good company :roll:  :roll: Reminds of the neighbours that lived next door to the 7/7 bombers - "well he seemed like a nice guy"

When faced with the true facts that they have ripped off the designs of companies like X-Eng, Staun, Equipe 4x4 whilst there were in a current resale relationship it has no effect on your position!  :roll:  :roll:

What good does there words do? They are damaging scorpion and TBH i think if Scorpion were aware of this you would probably see them taking further action.

What action do you propose Scorpion could take? Deformation of character? Slander? etc etc Ummmm that's a hard one. Let's try and take legal action against a company that is stating a true depiction of the events.  :roll:

I'll stop now, as I'm probably boring everyone with my rantings and there seems to be no point in trying to rationally discuss anything with you CNorman

Cheers

Steve

[att]

If a company was ripping off my products, the family members of the offending comapny would be watched and details collated, this would then be passed onto to offending companies directors/proprietor, saves an awful lot of money in the long run, not to mention time.
And yes, it can be done on an international basis.

I will not be responding to this one as it is as plain as the nose that sits upon your face.

[v40mav]

Having read and looked at some of the posts here guys I have to say that some of you I guess are being a bit hypocritical. [color=red]I have absolutely nothing to do with Sc*rpion products.[/color] I have bought products from them in the past as I have done with other companies and found them ok. Not great nor poor.

Look at your own vehicle and the products you use to repair / service / improve this. Tyres etc. Look at the tread patterns – how many have bought aftermarket products that look exactly similar to those of major brands. I’ve BFG MT’s on the disco, cost online approx £130-140 – Col*** offer as do others at similar remould with near identical pattern at £40-50 each. How many people will buy Col*** tyres. There are numerous threads about Insa Special Track – doesn’t that tread pattern look awfully similar to another companies.  :?:  :?:
Where do you think these companies got their design from.?. How many use genuine Land Rover parts when servicing vehicles ? How many of you have or use software on a pc that you do not have a licence for.  Who has bought a copy DVD or copied a CD for a mate ?  It is exactly the same.  :!:  :!:  :!:

I’ve been looking for a new front bumper for the 90 and how many options are out there that all look similar – a minor tweak here and there so as not to be exactly like someone else

Winches – again, in an ideal world I would like to buy a Warn/ superwinch, but cost does not allow this, but there are lots of similar looking alternatives. DO you honestly think all these companies came up with the same design  :?:

I agree that some businesses are more unscrupulous than others but at the end of the day in a free market we all have a choice. We choose to buy from one company or another -  If you can but a quality product that does a similar job and of a quality that meets the demands of the consumer then a number of buyers will buy the cheaper product. That is basic economics -  supply v demand v cost .  If the products do not meet the needs and are of an inferior quality then people will choose not to buy, and seek out better quality.

At the end of the day we all have a choice who we buy from.

[CNorman]

SteveG.

I dont think there is any point us going on but i agree with alot of the above 2 posts. It is frankly crap Staun are talking. It would be as easy as pie to lodge a complaint that a large retailler is selling non official goods as originals, i also assume you buy BFGoodrich muds, Landrover genu#ine parts and all the expensive stuff at every occasion.

Staun are in no different position to any other british manufacturing firm with the exception that they would rather moan and rubbish the competition rather than convince us of their quality.  

Like you, we are both in a free market and i will not be buying Staun produts after seeing what a petty snivling company they are.

[Jas278]

And  A lot of Folk wont buy Scorpion stuff on principle because of there "alledged" back /under hand dealings.........

[datalas]

It depends on a lot of factors, and please try to not forget that legal activities are costly,

I'm not speaking about this particular case by name and don't try to assume that the players involved are the same but a common tactic for a company to use with a smaller engineering firm is to increase your orders until such a point as the company in question is entirely dependent upon your trade.  

Then you can either force them to cut their prices (otherwise they lose all your trade and a good portion of their income) or you go elsewhere, happy in the knowledge that the dent in the cashflow will probably force them to forgo legal recourse.  Yes, they may get awarded damages, but if they've gone bust in the in between then well, it doesn't do them much good.

As for the point about not buying cheap knock off copies, yes the point is valid and there is a degree of hypocrisy involved however you have to (hopefully) appreciate that perhaps the detail which makes allegations of this nature more incepid is that there was a level of trust established in terms of the supplier / reseller relationship which previously existed and the originating company would have enjoyed the reputation that goes along with that relationship and the products.

I'm not saying that the alegation here is true, but imagining that it is for just a second or two,  Scorpion will have built up a reputation for their tyre deflators, based upon the work by Staun.  People will then associate Scorpion (not Staun) with good quality tyre deflation stuff,  to then change supplier once you have established that relationship will traumatise the other side,  especially when there are indications that the replacement product is a carbon copy of your design.

The other manner in which this sort of tactic becomes questionable is when you consider why they would have changed supplier in the first place,  if there is nothing perceivably wrong with the product in the first place then it's usually about cost cutting,  but has the price of the product from the newer supplier dropped to the consumer ?  I don't know, but I have my suspicions.

The other issue at hand here is this is the second allegation of this nature aimed at Scorpion this year alone,  the other example I won't name although I'm sure someone might.   For several months after the relationship broke down the advertisements still showed the original product (if you look closely you can read the original companies logo etched into it),  this is possibly due to the time it takes to change the advert of course, or it could be deceptive marketing practice you can certainly see how it would be perceived as such, especially when they have been accused of similar actions before.

And incidentally, no, I don't have anything from Scorpion and yes, I do own the "original" equipment ...