D of E

[The Landy Guy]

Got back off my Qualifying Expedition for Duke of Edinburgh Sliver award yesterday evening,

Left early Thursday, got to Trawsfynydd (North wales) at 12 lunch time and me and the rest of my group set off with me leading, hit the 1st check point with no problem, then hit the 2nd checkpoint with also no problems, between the 2nd and the 3rd checkpoint the mist and fog dropped in about 5mins it dropped to about 2ft visibility and we strayed from the path. Tried to get ourselves back to the track but ended up walking in circles.

Found ourselves at Nant Pasgan-Mawr a small bunkhouse situated about 3 miles from the disused Nuclear power station in Trawsfynydd,

We warmed up and found out where we were and then decided the route to get back to the track, so we left the bunkhouse pretty sure we knew where we were going and the mist dropped again and we went too far up the mountain and decided to pitch a tent and try and contact out school leader which we couldn't, so we called the police thinking we might be able to do a phone trace and get a grid ref from them,

The police couldn't give us a grid ref but they said they were going to call us back! this was 7pm and we got a call back from mountain rescue saying that they had sent some guys out to help us off,

The mountain rescue guys found us at 10pm and got us off the mountain at 11pm, we got back to the campsite at 1am, wet cold and tired!

The other 2 days were easy and had no problems what so ever!

Just want to say thank you very much to the Welsh Mountain Rescue Team for acting so fast and finding us with the very vague details we gave then!!!!  :D

I am still up for doing Gold award aswell!

[The Landy Guy]

sorry forgot to mention the main bit!

we were picked up by 2 defender 110 ambulances with 2 seats in the front and 3 in the back then a stretcher in the rear! we got 9 people in the 110 we were in! 5 on all the seats, 1 on t he cubby box, and 2 in the rear!

cant beat a good old landy ambulance

[TDi90]

omg! what an experience, i love D of E!  8)

[Lee_D]

Pah!

When I were a lad you had to make smoke signals from Moss. Grow a Tree, chop it down and hollow it out with a Swiss army knife , then white water raft down the nearest brook to the next checkpoint....

mobile phones indeed!

 

Enjoyed every minute of my D of E. Put some hairs on me chest and no doubt accounted for a number disappearing from the head too.

[pilgrim]

did you have an emergency contact somewhere with a landline?

i am an award supervisor/assessor and it is award policy to ensure that there is always a landline number you can contact. if not, then your supervisor is a bit naughty!

glad it didn't put you off though!

[The Landy Guy]

no the only landline number we had was the school but we got lost and needed to  call at 6pm and everyone had left school by then!

indeed the guy who took us was an idiot and we have made a complaint about it and sent an donation to the mountain rescue team!


Still up for Gold!

[pilgrim]

no the only landline number we had was the school but we got lost and needed to call at 6pm and everyone had left school by then!

when you go on your gold, arrange for a number that will be manned 24/7 (or near enough) to be available. you call it if you have a problem, the supervisor calls it if he/she thinks you have a problem, and the person on the landline tries to co-ordinate. it's not hard to do, and can save lives.

on the plus side, you did everything right, so it wouldn't be a fail (at least not if i was assessing).

[mike142sl]

Not only should you have genuine emergency contact number, i.e. ones that are still useful after 6pm! you should have been carrying emergency food and shelter, even a tent or two. People laugh when I send my Scouts off in N Wales with such things for hikes that should only last a couple of hours, but in your case it could have been a life saver - what would have happened had you not got a signal? Sounds strange that you didn't have such things in that area for a Silver outing.

[pilgrim]

and decided to pitch a tent and try and contact out school leader which we couldn't

like your scouts, they shouldn't be allowed out on the hill without them.

[UKJeeper]

Don't know if GPS is considered "cheating", but having one for emergencies like that should be considered as essential as water and shelter. Shove one in the bottom of the rucksack.

[The Landy Guy]

on the plus side, you did everything right, so it wouldn't be a fail (at least not if i was assessing).

Thanks yeah we havent been failed

[The Landy Guy]

Not only should you have genuine emergency contact number, i.e. ones that are still useful after 6pm! you should have been carrying emergency food and shelter, even a tent or two. People laugh when I send my Scouts off in N Wales with such things for hikes that should only last a couple of hours, but in your case it could have been a life saver - what would have happened had you not got a signal? Sounds strange that you didn't have such things in that area for a Silver outing.

we had all that!

[The Landy Guy]

Don't know if GPS is considered "cheating", but having one for emergencies like that should be considered as essential as water and shelter. Shove one in the bottom of the rucksack.

they are classed as cheating but i am having one for gold in a sealed emergency container

[redhand]

I Lived in Blaenau Ffestiniog which is just down the road from Traws. And I know the area well. Also know quite a few of the the local MRT members You mentioned 2 110's so I'm assuming it was RAF Valley or the Aberglaslyn team that picked you up.

A tip for finding your way in the mist is to get a member of the team to walk in the direction you want to go while the rest of you make sure he/she stays on the right heading. just before they disappear you get them to stop then catch up with them and repeat the procedure. keep each leg of the route short, and you'll get to your destination without to much trouble.

Also don't aim for a small target (gate, house trig point etc) but aim off too one side (say to the right) and use a fence, track stream etc as a target. That way when you reach it you'll know the place you actually want is to the left of where you are. GPS are great but you have to be aware of their limitations I:E it'll tell you your at the edge of a cliff but not whether your at the top or bottom of it. In really thick mist/fog people have walked off the edge because they thought they were at the bottom of the cliff/rock face.

[lee celtic]

Nuclear power station in Trawsfynydd,

they found you easy because you were glowing

[The Landy Guy]

haha

[ben_haynes]

alternitavly get a couple of CB radios, thats what i send my explorer scouts out with for emergencies if the Mobiles dont work and we man the CB and Phone line Constant when out on hikes or Expeditions

we give them 1 CB, 1 PMR Walkie Talkie, and a Mobile Phone with O2 free sim card, emergency food, Suvival bags (1 per 2 members), a tent Seperated in to four - Poles, Fly, Inner, Pegs. per expedition team, devided evenly through the whole team

our first ever D of E practice expedition saw a lot of problems with each person packing there own kit not knowing what to take, a group of Female Scouts moaned there bags were to heavy, so we asked to see what was in there, and out come Hair straighteners, curling tongs, hair dryers, a ton of Make up,  for one night :roll:  :oops:

[The Landy Guy]

classic

yeah cb radios sound a good plan

[ben_haynes]

yer we do 1 night camps and they bring a large 120ltr rucsac a 60 ltr rucsak and a daysac all full of unneeded Crap

[Devon-Rover]

A tip for finding your way in the mist is to get a member of the team to walk in the direction you want to go while the rest of you make sure he/she stays on the right heading. just before they disappear you get them to stop then catch up with them and repeat the procedure. keep each leg of the route short, and you'll get to your destination without to much trouble.

Known as leapfrogging! Very usefull technique in thick fog or in the dark using torches.

Good to know your safe and well anyway. you'll learn from the situation and be the better off for knowing how to deal with adverse weather next time round.  8)

A good tip is to always know where you are on the map even in good weather. Make mental notes about features you pass and that are marked on the map. then should the weather start to close in then you can be sure to know where you are instead of trying to frantiacally do resection before the clouds close in too far.
as redhand said and i'll echo that the 'leap frog' and 'Aiming off' then using features like streams or walls to 'hand rail' alongside will mean hitting targets not missing them.

and BTW the emergency contact should be a 24 hour number of a helper / teacher of the school group who is next to a landline phone.
But still a little puzzled as to what the leader ( Leaders? imho there should be two of them at least) were up to during this time.

(Touch wood i have never lost a group to this day. up on the moor)

But anyway i'm going off the point. Hope you enjoyed the walk and it hasn't put you off. There is nothing quite like going off track and taking the scenic way.  :lol:

[The Landy Guy]

had a few leaders but only one number to call

[Manicminer]

The Mountain Rescue 110s were by the Conwy Falls, A5/Penmachno junction on the Wednesday evening. Looked like they were having a team bonding session

[The Landy Guy]

might have been the same crew tht picked us up

[Bulli]

glad you are all safe and well but cant help thinking what a waste of valuable time for the mountian rescue.

 Sorry if that comes across as harsh but surely you should be capable of making a sensible decision. You should be able to map read as this seems to be a skill that is disappearing. If the weather is crap its not difficult to walk on a bearing and the only way you get lost is by not using your compass and map properly.

If i was your parent the D of E guy who was supposed to be running the show would be getting a bollocking, as its his responsibility to make sure you can use a map and compass.

[The Landy Guy]

the mountain rescue were called out by the police and came out due to them knowing it was a sticky situation even they said they would have found it hard!

you had to be there to understand!!
they said if they didn't think it was important enough they would have left us till the morning but it was really bad!

trust me when i say the school has been in the dog house with my mum!!! :shock:

[pilgrim]

glad you are all safe and well but cant help thinking what a waste of valuable time for the mountian rescue

i think that is the beauty of not only our mountain rescue services, but also the lifeboats - they are prepared to come out whatever. sure, no-one likes the really stupid call outs, but if you really are in trouble, the last thing any mountain rescue would want you to do is to hesitate whether to call them. better safe than sorry.

yes, all d of e participants should be able to read a map and compass properly before they are allowed on the hill, and they are all trained as to what to do in an emergency. but it is easy for us to say what they should have done. remember, this is a group of schoolchildren in an unfamiliar environment. i think they did the right thing - no-one got hurt, and everyone went home ok. sure, the leaders need an almighty rollocking, but the kids themselves made the right decision under the circumstances.

the only way you get lost is by not using your compass and map properly

erm ... i teach map-reading skills and have been known to "misinterpret" the map sometimes. it's not that difficult to do.

[The Landy Guy]

but it is easy for us to say what they should have done. remember, this is a group of schoolchildren in an unfamiliar environment. i think they did the right thing - no-one got hurt, and everyone went home ok. sure, the leaders need an almighty rollocking, but the kids themselves made the right decision under the circumstances.

Thanks

[Bulli]

i know map reading isnt always easy but surely the right decision would have been to stay at the bunkhouse till the morning? I know its very easy to be critical with hindsight and that wasnt and isn't my intention.

In the Uk you are never more than 70-odd miles from the coast and other than the extreme north of Scotland only a matter of miles from a road. I have walked, climbed and mountaineered for most of my life...having been past 12000 at 14. Im not the be all and end all and always take a warm bag and tent..in this country you can wait out virtually anything in safety.

anyway seems the organisers may have learnt a lesson, you should keep it up your efforts are worth it in the end.

Mountain rescue and the Lifeboat volunteers do a fantastic job and give up lots of their spare time.

[Wireless]

If i was your parent the D of E guy who was supposed to be running the show would be getting a bollocking, as its his responsibility to make sure you can use a map and compass.

Actually, it's the people doing the D of E that should have responsibility for knowing how to use a map and compass, anyone over 14 should be prepared to take personal responsibility.

The D of E guy can only take the word of those undertaking D of E when they say they know what they are doing, or the word of the people that have supposedly trained them, and can only set routes to suit the level of experience.  Obviously, when the mist came down the techniques required to navigate in the conditions were missing, and they got lost.

We can all be critical after the fact, but the responsibility is a joint one, bollocking someone because they have duff information on the skill levels held by individuals who have failed to consider navigation in mist as being important as a personal responsibility doesn't help in the review of the event.

Personally I wouldn't trust anyone to tell the truth about their experience, and set smaller risk assessed tasks to test the professed level of knowledge before even considering them as a candidate for an organised hike for an Award.

BTW, D of E seems to be the one everyone harps on about, even employers, but the Queen's Award is higher, the D of E rips it off.

[mike142sl]

It's good Landy Guy and his mates are still up for some more, many give up after less.

Groups of this age group often get caught out in this way because they are enjoying the walk and forget to keep track of timings and landmarks, which are two main things I impress upon my Scouts. They know it takes 'about' 10 minutes to walk 1km and to adjust that for different types of terrain etc. They can then work out on the map how long it should take to reach various points or landmarks on the map. This links into keeping track of where they are at regular intervals, so even if the mist comes down they can identify footpaths that join their track, walls, woods, steams etc and work out where they are. After 26 years I've never had a group get lost using this technique - had plenty tell me they went off track for a bit, but worked out they wern't where they should have been and back tracked to find their correct route.

Let us know how you get on with your Gold Landy Guy, and have fun getting it.