Is this inflamatory?

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Not sure if the following is genuine; what do you think?

Australian values


Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told
on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals
in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to
Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John
Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face
a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard,
 hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country
if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws
were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a
country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for
you", he said on National Television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws
governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another
Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the
opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's abetter option", Costello said.
Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he
said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the
other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that
Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off.
Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want,
to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can
basically clear off", he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by
saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some
individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we
have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility
that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration,nor
do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming
to Australia. However, there are a few things that those who have
recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to
understand."
"This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served
only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as
Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles,
trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"
"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,
Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to
become part of our society .. Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right
wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on
Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If
God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as
your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is
that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with
us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we reallydon't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keepyour culture, but do not force it on others.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow
you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done
complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other
great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come
here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

[Xtremeteam]

i posted somnething similar previous & ended up on probation :lol:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

i posted somnething similar previous & ended up on probation :lol:

Why should that be? All this guy is saying that if you live in a particular place, live by their rules.
I don't see a problem with that.

[Tiki Al]

not at all

think we should have the same values here

[ian_s]

thats it, i'm off to Australia :D

[diggerdog36]

My cousin is over for 5 months, he cant believe what we put up with!!
Im so tempted to go back to Perth with him!!!

[Lee_D]

Hang on .... the place is full of crooks... and they have an entry criteria.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  

right I'm off for a whinge.

[dazzawhipple]

thats it, i'm off to Australia :D

Cough I AM

[Range Rover Blues]

thats it, i'm off to Australia :D

Cough I AM

The only thing I don't like about Auz is that most of the worlds deadliest stuff lives there, I mean God put it all on an island in the middle of a damn great big sea, wasn't that warning enough?

Don't know about imigrating though but I recon we should vote that guy in to replace Ken Livingstone :lol:

[Eeyore]

The opening gambit on the thread was the question was 'is this inflammatory?'.

The simple answer is yes, it is. It was designed to grab the attention of a specific part of society and cause a reaction or response. However, whether the individual supports or rejects the sentiment demonstrated wasn't the question and should be discussed with care.

Phrasing the post as such a question is less likely to get it pulled then displaying it as your own opinions and thereby supporting actions that may be considered racist, biggoted, sexist, homophobic, inflammatory or just plain offensive.

This is why similar commentary in previous threads has been subject to Moderation. And no doubt will continue to be.

Hope this helps

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Dr Strangeglove]

One thing I admire about the Aussies - They are proud to be Aussies.  I used to be proud to be British, but how can I be proud of a nation that bends over backwards to help minorities and tries to sweep its elderly generation (the generation that helped make the country what it is!) under the carpet.

I enjoy holidays in Greece.  I tend to bike around over their, as my good lady doesn’t travel well, and we see all the schools, council offices etc. all fly their nations flag with pride.

When speaking to an ex-pat he said somewhere along the lines of "if you want to live in Greece, don't expect to live as though you are British.  When you are in Greece you live by their laws, methods and traditions".  I admire them for that and would love to live there (the weather would help as well mind - can't wait for the summer, only eleven months to go now!).  The frustrating thing about Britain is that the vast majority of people would love to be British and proud again - if only the governing bodies and media would let them (I think the media are mostly to blame).

So - Good on yer mate!

By the way, I have nothing against immigrants wanting to come to this country to make a better life for themselves.  I think it must take guts and courage to do it - but I want to look after me and my own first!  That may be selfish but if it is I openly admit it.

I have nothing against other faiths either and when people accuse me or others as being racist this really winds me up.  I don't believe in god but I believe in Christian values and believe this country is built upon them.  If anyone in this country finds that offensive, even if they were born here, then they should find somewhere they are happy to live.

I think it’s also time the law of exile was reintroduced!!

Oops!  -  ranting a bit now.

So to the Aussies - Fair Dinkum!!
 =D>

[rollazuki]

Thats not racism, its about right.

[screwy]

TBH I dont think it is genuine - a Prime Minister is never that forthright, even in Oz! :lol:

However, it does some up how a huge number of people feel. There was a similar one after 9/11 supposedly from George Bush, again voicing what people beleive he would say rather than something he did.

IMHO I guess it is inflammatory as someone has put above, as t is designed to provoke reaction, for or against, but that is not always a bad thing as debate is healthy for democracy and sometimes, especially in Britian we are now afraid to voice our true opinions for fear of upsetting someone or another.

Personally I agree with the sentiments express in the first post and wish that kind of attitude was prevalant in EVERY country i.e. if you dont beleive in Sharia law, don't visit or live in Saudi Arabia or wherever practices such thing, as well as the vice-versa. I am a firm beleiver in that people should by and large stay in the country of their birth aside from holidays or business and we would all get along with eachother better and appreciate the differing customs, etc.

For another little demonstration of how the vast majority of Englsih people feel regarding the topic matter in the first post, you could do worse than watch this:

Moderated

Eloquently put, fair and I agree 100%. Forgive me if it has been posted before!

Peace To All!

[Eeyore]

See, this is the problem we get and the hint was given.

The thread was about a question whether something was inflammatory. It was not about inciting national pride, nationalist thinking or rasism (by any other name).

The link above was Moderated because, in my view (and it's the one that counts), it was offensive by being nationalist and racist.

[tongue firmly in cheek] If folk wish to complain about 'heavy handed moderation', lets just say that it's our forum and we make the rules, and if the rules upset you, you're welcome to post elsewhere.  

How's that for keeping on topic!  :lol:

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[simon15]

i totally agree to this this country is no longer british.

We are now the minority in our own country and it sure aint right....



Thats why we are off to spain sometime soon hopefully. get out of this place......

[alaric]

**Slight hijack** - sorry guys

Dr Strangelove, why don't you get in touch next time you're here, if you're in the Athens area....

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I've just googled the chap Costello, and it would appear that this is a 'take' on an interview that he gave in 2005. It has been 'interpreted' and put out in this version.

[att]

I know I am off in the next couple of years, probably end up in Canada, I have points and I know how to use them :lol:
The part of canada Iwe are going to has very few immigrants apart from  a few Brits.....New Brunswick is a nice place to be :D

[screwy]

Eyore! You're welcome to your moderation and you rightly say its 'your' forum, although its good to remember that a forum is only ever the sum total of its members....

I abide by the rules and this is NOT a criticism of your admin powers, the link removal or the moderation.

I am going to raise one issue though and that is regarding your use of inflammatory language, thus:

 

It was not about inciting national pride, nationalist thinking or rasism (by any other name).

The link above was Moderated because, in my view (and it's the one that counts), it was offensive by being nationalist and racist.

So are you saying then that being a nationalist or a having national pride is akin to racism? If you are, you're very much mistaken

I am a nationalist and have fierce national pride - are you therefore saying I am a racist? Be careful in your reply here!

The on-line Cambridge English dictionary defines the words as follows:

nationalism

noun {U}

1 the desire for and the attempt to achieve political independence for your country or nation

nationalist

noun {C}

a person who wants political independence for their country

racism

noun {U} (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING

the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races

racist

noun {C} (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialist) DISAPPROVING

someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly

That clearly defines that to be a nationlist is NOT akin to being racist in any way and it is a point that I for one get tired of defending. By mixing meanings and words that are NOT interchangeable you belittle any arguments you make regarding the subjects in discussion.

I am a nationalist - I claim a love of my country, England. I am not a racist.

I just want that to be clear!

[Dirty Gertie]

When in Rome; do as the Romans do

it's really very simple!!

[redhand]

I spent three years living and working in Holland and Germany and was always made to feel welcome. Even though I was an immigrant. I also spent nearly 10 years living in North Wales and met with loads of anti-english racism.

It always makes me laugh that we call non "white anglo saxons" immigrants but English people living abroad are always ex-pats. Double standards spring to mind.

Unfortunately Racism and Nationalism are very closely intertwined in this nations Psyche. Elizabeth the 1st pased a law banning black people from working in London, because there were too many Englishmen without work. Barclays Bank became the instiution it is today and made most of it's money financing the Slave trade.

Anyone who promotes the slogan or ideal of England for the English is promoting racism. Most of our descendants arrived here as part of an invading army. or as refugees from religious persecutions. and before anyone starts slagging me I'm British and proud of it. My father is half Ulsterman half Scottish and my mother is half English half Welsh.

My philosophy is live and let live

[screwy]

Anyone who promotes the slogan or ideal of England for the English is promoting racism

I give up..... #-o  ](*,)

Nationalism is NOT the same as racism.

Race has nothing to do with colour.

QE1 - WTH has that got to do with anything? The slave trade? OFF TOPIC! And anyway, has history had all the WHITE slaves deleted from the records, and what has that to do with this thread????

Your philosophy is impeccable, but your history is terrible!! :lol:

[Eeyore]

If folk aren't knocking the moderation herein, then please don't start with the semantics.  :roll:

In the modern vernacular nationalism has negative overtones, as does racism, Yes, I'm aware the two are not the same thing which is why I mentioned both.

If you really want an arguement however, then take it off line, but don't bate Moderators in public, it simply isn't respectful or wanted.

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[screwy]

Eyore I dont want an argument and I dont know how to make myself any clearer than I did. I was not criticising you or your moderation as noted in the first line of my reply.

I am merely saying that there is a world of difference between nationalism / national pride and racism / racists and by persisting to not acknowledge that difference you are deliberately merging the two things together. This is not fair nor reasoned debate. The only reason that nationalism can be taken with 'negative overtones' if if they are put there by the writer or speaker and by constant linking of the two remotely seperate ideas of nation and race, which I have been at pains to point out are not interchangeable words with the same meanings.

I have not bated nor shown you any disrespect and do not want an argument, merely to be shown the same respect in toward my views which are nationalist in that I love my country but NOT racist in that I do not discriminate on the grounds of racial background.

Finally, if you and I are in agreement that they are not the same thing then I trust that this can be the end of the matter.

[Eeyore]

In agreement that Nationalsim and racsim are not the same things, yes.

In agreement with the bating issue?

I made a statement about a clip you posted, not about you as a person.  :?

Lets just say that your post was considered to be inflammatory (bacvk on topic again!) being a direct critisism of the words I used when Moderating your post.
 :roll:

If the matters gonna be ended, then we both need to understand what the issue was, I'm afraid.

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[redhand]

and I didn't say they were the same I said they were closely linked in this nations psyche.
And if you promote the philosophy of England for the English then you are promoting racism because you are saying that there is no room in this country, for non english races (the belief that other races are inferior)

[screwy]

And if you promote the philosophy of England for the English then you are promoting racism because you are saying that there is no room in this country, for non english races (the belief that other races are inferior)

Why is promoting England for the English racist? I categorically do not suggest that other races are inferior or superior just because I feel that the world would be a better place if we by and large stayed put in our countries of birth.

And Eyore, I cannot explain myself anymore ways. Not taken as a personal attack, just a mis-use of language which I have been at pains to correct.

Lets just call it quits shall we? :?  I think we have answered the original posting question adequetly....! :lol:

[datalas]

Lets just call it quits shall we? :?  I think we have answered the original posting question adequetly....! :lol:

I think that would be best...

now shake hooves you two, there's enough troubles in the world without the linguistic failings of a typed spoken language causing any more...

[richo]

Read the first post then lost my way a bit with the other posts .Piont i think the first post was doing was telling us how we seem to be to pc where as they don't in oz.
I have family over there and have stayed with them a few times and you do get the feeling that there country is run for the people who vote the govenment in and not do gooders like over here.
Please don't start posting the wrongs and rights of this post as i'm only voicing my views on the first post and don't really what to get dragged in to the r word