Paramedics Under Attack

[Bush Tucker Man]

This article recently appeared in 'The Daily Mail' after the gentleman concerned was interviewed a while ago

Open Season??

Whilst thankfully not to the same extent as in London, quite a few of the Ambulance crews that I see each day can tell similar stories.

It's the worrying comments that they expect it to happen that saddens me, plus ones like this;

"When I first trained, I was taught how to safely control and restrain violent patients. Now we're trained in escape techniques.
That's how badly things have deteriorated and - believe it or not - how terrified the service is of being sued by the very people who attack us"

Same here, we're now taught the skills of 'Conflict Resolution' (no!, we weren't allowed to use the Fire Extinguisher standing at arms reach to resolve the matter at no danger to us!!, but, if the assailant uses instead that's okay!!)
I was lucky, I had a weeks 'Control & Restraint' training a few years ago, but that was really aimed at staff on the wards of the Mental Unit where it was taught (ie; 2 staff always in close attendance to a dangerous patient)

I consider myself lucky in a way, as some of the old-timers on here may remember, I had my nose broken by a junkie.
Other staff have been punched, kicked, strangled (I believe he was kneed in the 'nads' by the Nurse in question to gain her freedom)

One of the Security guards was even threatened in the grounds with what appeared to be a hunting rifle!! (the guy was later shot dead in local woods by armed police)


Oh, & this is the 'blog' of the Drunk-Mobile driver who was interviewed
http://randomreality.blogware.com/blog

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Tasers for Ambulance teams?

[Bush Tucker Man]

Tasers for Ambulance teams?

Nice idea :D

[Range Rover Blues]

"He fell out of the ambulance, guv"

[littlepow]

Tasers for Ambulance teams?

Nice idea :D

Just stop treating them, if they don't behave, then there not too ill!

[Bush Tucker Man]

Tasers for Ambulance teams?

Nice idea :D

Just stop treating them, if they don't behave, then there not too ill!

They can't
If the patient takes a turn for the worse due to non-treatment, it's bad!!!

They can leave of their own accord though

[andyhubbard]

Unfortunately guys this is all to much a common problem,i attended a call at the weekend with a colleague in the ambulance only to be faced with abuse and threats before we got out of the vehicle,needless to say i pulled away and called for assistance. You should have seen their face when we pulled back up with a police escort. :)

[screwy]

Another thing a strong government can stop instantly:

If you are drunk, violent in NHS care or your injuries are entirely self-inflicted YOU WILL PAY THE FULL COSTS OF YOUR TREATMENT. No exceptions, no time to pay, no deducting £1 a week from giros etc.

The 'free' health care system in this country is outdated and is abused far more than it is used. Make people PAY for it and then see them abuse it.

Failing that, straight to jail schemes for abuse on NHS staff. No court, no 'mitgating circumstance', straight to jail 10 days.

[att]

Another thing a strong government can stop instantly:

If you are drunk, violent in NHS care or your injuries are entirely self-inflicted YOU WILL PAY THE FULL COSTS OF YOUR TREATMENT. No exceptions, no time to pay, no deducting £1 a week from giros etc.

The 'free' health care system in this country is outdated and is abused far more than it is used. Make people PAY for it and then see them abuse it.

Failing that, straight to jail schemes for abuse on NHS staff. No court, no 'mitgating circumstance', straight to jail 10 days.

Amen to that.

[Bush Tucker Man]

If you are drunk, violent in NHS care or your injuries are entirely self-inflicted YOU WILL PAY THE FULL COSTS OF YOUR TREATMENT. No exceptions, no time to pay, no deducting £1 a week from giros etc.

It's been opinioned before by politicians.
But it's against the grain of a 'Free To All' system

The 'free' health care system in this country is outdated and is abused far more than it is used. Make people PAY for it and then see them abuse it.

I've not been in the situation, well once on my bike, but if you're involved (your fault or not) in a RTI, can't the NHS make a claim against your insurers for costs??

Failing that, straight to jail schemes for abuse on NHS staff. No court, no 'mitgating circumstance', straight to jail 10 days.

That's the one I agree with, as will most of my collegues.

Attack/injure any member of staff of any emergency service, & slammed up for at least a week

But it's got to be publicised everywhere so they know; Pubs, bars, night-clubs, gyms, shops, etc... etc...

[littlepow]

The problem is that there are no consequences for crime anymore. The Police need to have their paperwork reduced, the courts need to speed things up and people need to face jail. Instead of tags and community service, cause that just isn’t working.

That way people will think twice about becoming violent and aggressive. And maybe they will learn to behave like the supposed civilised people we are suppose to be.
If they get drunk and violent on Saturday, then lock them up till Monday, take them to straight to court and sentence them for their actions.

This is not a swipe at police officers, just the people behind the decisions on how to police.

Sorry rant over.

[hobbit]

Another thing a strong government can stop instantly:

If you are drunk, violent in NHS care or your injuries are entirely self-inflicted YOU WILL PAY THE FULL COSTS OF YOUR TREATMENT. No exceptions, no time to pay, no deducting £1 a week from giros etc.

The 'free' health care system in this country is outdated and is abused far more than it is used. Make people PAY for it and then see them abuse it.

Failing that, straight to jail schemes for abuse on NHS staff. No court, no 'mitgating circumstance', straight to jail 10 days.

I agree

But nowadays too many bleeding hearts and do gooders

You can go from terrorist to mp in 30 years, what chance is there for us nowadays

[Yoshi]

One of the Eastern European countries have got it right to reduce this kind of thing.  If you are caught drunk in public or need to be arrested over a weekend, they keep you in the cells til monday morning, and none of this 1 person to a cell, its everyone in 1 cell with roll up mattresses and blankets on the floor.  I saw a documentary on it a couple of years ago and they said it reduced violent crime in general on a weekend by 40%.

[Bush Tucker Man]

One of the Eastern European countries have got it right to reduce this kind of thing.  If you are caught drunk in public or need to be arrested over a weekend, they keep you in the cells til monday morning, and none of this 1 person to a cell, its everyone in 1 cell with roll up mattresses and blankets on the floor.  I saw a documentary on it a couple of years ago and they said it reduced violent crime in general on a weekend by 40%.

As Kevin says above you, too many bleeding hearts & apologists

[Skibum346]

...too many bleeding hearts & apologists

Isn't that an occupational hazard for you Mr tucker man...?!

   :lol:  :lol:

[Bush Tucker Man]

...too many bleeding hearts & apologists

Isn't that an occupational hazard for you Mr tucker man...?!

   :lol:  :lol:

 :lol:  :roll:  :lol:  :roll:

No that's bleeding noses (mine )

[lee celtic]

don't lock them up till monday morning ...

lock them up till monday lunch time then they will have to explain to their employer where they were and why...  :twisted:

[screwy]

explain to their employer where they were and why...  :twisted:

Employer? May as well wait until Giro day for more effect........... :?

[Yoshi]

With regards to assault towards firefighters and paramedics (and the police officers on this forum and those without a chip on their shoulder) then the aggressor should get more than a week inside, they should get at least 12 months inside.  Then they should be fined the cost of the treatment they would have still recieved and also a minimum of £1000 compensation to the staff involved.  

What their needs to be is not a small punishment, there should be a punishment big enough to deter them from ever doing it again, which a week inside is not gonna do for a drunk on giro day.

[screwy]

It would in the prison I have in mind....

[lostdreamer]

You know, the more I think about this the more it confuses me. Which is easy, but hey.

Ok, so the theory is that attacking a police officer or care worker should be treated no differently to attacking anyone else. I would expect the practice to be somewhat different tho...

PC: "Mr Scumbag was violent and abusive, having already attacked several members of the public and proceeding to attack myself and my college when we arrived on scene. Regrettably in the process of subduing him I ended up breaking his arm."
Scumbag: "No I never."
Judge: "Members of the jury, let me sum up the case for you. You have heard two conflicting statements, one from a reputable member of the law enforcement community and another from a lying criminal scumbag. You must choose which to believe."
Jury: "Guilty."
Judge: "Scumbag, this is the book. The court will now recess whilst I figure out just how much of it I can throw at you."

And as for the thought of attacking someone whom you are depending on to fix your bleeding arm just doesn't bear thinking about...
Doc: "Sister, why is there a patient strapped to a bed in the middle of the car park?"
Ward Sister: "His drunken shouting was upsetting the other patients. In order to ensure the highest possible standards of treatment for them I had to have him removed from the ward."
Doc: "Very sensible. You are aware that it is hailing outside, yes?"
Sister: "Oh yes."
Doc: "When are you intending to treat him anyway?"
Sister: "When we have treated all the more serious patients, the ward staff have taken their mandatory breaks and err...not even then seeing as how he attacked one of the nurses and I consider that to be refusing treatment."
Doc: "Is there nothing you intend to do for him?"
Sister: "Well, that cut should probably be cleaned I guess. Oh look, lemon juice. That should sterilize it nicely. Be back shortly!"


I mean, are people really so fantastically stupid that they think having a go at the people who are trying to help them is going to accomplish anything other than making the same people decide to let them suffer?

[clbarclay]

What their needs to be is not a small punishment, there should be a punishment big enough to deter them from ever doing it again, which a week inside is not gonna do for a drunk on giro day.

I think the idea of a weak or 2 locked up is that no employer is wants to pay a wage to some whos not there to work, they may get away with it once but chances are they are out of a job.

The down side is this won't affect people without jobs to start with. In which case bring back the stocks (they've got to be cheaper to run than prisson).

[littlepow]

What their needs to be is not a small punishment, there should be a punishment big enough to deter them from ever doing it again, which a week inside is not gonna do for a drunk on giro day.

I think the idea of a weak or 2 locked up is that no employer is wants to pay a wage to some whos not there to work, they may get away with it once but chances are they are out of a job.

The down side is this won't affect people without jobs to start with. In which case bring back the stocks (they've got to be cheaper to run than prisson).

Then just stop the benifits for the period of improsonment, followed by compusery work party duties to keep said benifits.
Remebering to reduce the benifits if they can afford to smoke or drink to excess, cause they are obviously getting too much if they waste it.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

At the risk of sounding draconian on this, but American style 'chain gangs' would be interesting.
The law has been changed recently to cover assaults, intimidation and threats towards Emergency Services, including now Fire and Rescue teams, Ambulance and Health Staff and also HM Coastguard and Lifeboat crews. All that needs to be sorted now is equality in pay.
As mentioned in other threads, I get arsey when I hear from Magistrates, Politicians, Solicitors and Barristers, that I should accept abuse, threats and assaults as part of my job. What a load of cock!
I can be sworn as part of my job, but if I swear at a 'customer', I get hassled for it!
Sorry, but anyone who assaults Emergency teams should get the jail and a bit of hard graft. Their prison 'pay' should go towards paying the compensation to the victims.
I recall my son telling a little story of when he was in the Army and deployed during the Fire Strike.
A group of the local 'Chavalry' had torched a car and ambushed the RAF team that turned up. The RAF bods call for assistance and my lads team turns up in a Green Goddess. They get out, turned the hoses on the local scrotes and then give them some close up views of the toecaps of their boots.
The local Plod turned up and apparently the hard nuts (a group of 20)  didn't want to admit that they had been taken out by 6 squaddies.
Funnily enough, the attacks on the crews stopped after that.

[Bush Tucker Man]

I mean, are people really so fantastically stupid that they think having a go at the people who are trying to help them is going to accomplish anything other than making the same people decide to let them suffer?

Yes, some of them are so stupid :D


Of course we wouldn't let a seriously hurt drunk suffer, but we'd hav to make damned sure we didn't get injured whilst treating him/her.

I recall my son telling a little story of when he was in the Army and deployed during the Fire Strike.
A group of the local 'Chavalry' had torched a car and ambushed the RAF team that turned up. The RAF bods call for assistance and my lads team turns up in a Green Goddess. They get out, turned the hoses on the local scrotes and then give them some close up views of the toecaps of their boots.
The local Plod turned up and apparently the hard nuts (a group of 20) didn't want to admit that they had been taken out by 6 squaddies.
Funnily enough, the attacks on the crews stopped after that

Love it :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

But it took 6??, or did 3 of them just sit & watch??

It's a pity that the (civilian) Fire Service aren't allowed react in the same manner

[screwy]

Of course we wouldn't let a seriously hurt drunk suffer, but we'd hav to make damned sure we didn't get injured whilst treating him/her.

Why the hell not? It is entirely self-inflicted and they abuse anyone ether verbally or physically, then  tough, no care. No-one poured the beer down them did they?

[Bush Tucker Man]

Of course we wouldn't let a seriously hurt drunk suffer, but we'd hav to make damned sure we didn't get injured whilst treating him/her.

Why the hell not? It is entirely self-inflicted and they abuse anyone ether verbally or physically, then  tough, no care. No-one poured the beer down them did they?

We simply can't

Sadly there'd 'be hell to pay' if we totally ignored them, although Doctors may refuse to treat them until there's a hint of sobriety/compliance

I partially expected a druggie kicking off this afternoon, as he was varying from tears to a complete rage, but thankfully he didn't as he was a fairly big lad



Edit @ 23:25

Personally I think that the general public would support any moves to delay/with-hold/charge for treament of drunks.
Until it's someone they know who's in that situation

Whether the politicians are brave enough to let the Police/judiciary use the powers that 'L S-P' mentions concerning assaults on any emergency service personnel is a matter........

[Wireless]

Jeez, what a bunch of soft bar-stewards!

In my day we would think nothing of lifting a scrote up by his neck and pinning him to the side of the ambulance to give him advice that his personal safety might be at risk if he carry's on being a scrote interfering with the ambulance crew; and big brown needles stabbed in the back of the hand three times as failed cannulations are a fantastic aid to the recovery of those drunks that pretend to be unconscious, you know the one's, they forceably keep there eyes shut while unconscious, even when to try to peel back the eyelid to shine in the 10 million candle vehicle torch; and although it wasn't strictly on the list of drugs that we carried, the most effective drug was the ammonia smelling salts on a Friday & Saturday Night, once applied to the one nostril, with the jaw firmly closed, and the other nostril occluded, many a drunk has leaped to his feet to be arrested immediately for being drunk & disorderly, ever grateful to those boys in blue.

If only I could have earned all those £38 referral fees mentioned within that blog, instead of the that [!Expletive Deleted!] £600 per annum Paramedical Skills Pay...

BTW, I'm applying to become a Magistrate, and my nick name will be 'hang em high'.

[Boggert]

Jeez, what a bunch of soft bar-stewards!

In my day we would think nothing of lifting a scrote up by his neck and pinning him to the side of the ambulance to give him advice that his personal safety might be at risk if he carry's on being a scrote interfering with the ambulance crew; and big brown needles stabbed in the back of the hand three times as failed cannulations are a fantastic aid to the recovery of those drunks that pretend to be unconscious, you know the one's, they forceably keep there eyes shut while unconscious, even when to try to peel back the eyelid to shine in the 10 million candle vehicle torch; and although it wasn't strictly on the list of drugs that we carried, the most effective drug was the ammonia smelling salts on a Friday & Saturday Night, once applied to the one nostril, with the jaw firmly closed, and the other nostril occluded, many a drunk has leaped to his feet to be arrested immediately for being drunk & disorderly, ever grateful to those boys in blue.

If only I could have earned all those £38 referral fees mentioned within that blog, instead of the that !Expletive Deleted! £600 per annum Paramedical Skills Pay...

BTW, I'm applying to become a Magistrate, and my nick name will be 'hang em high'.

Oh now if you become a magistrate you'll have my vote! Nice to hear a bit of common sence rather than this pusy fotting around that goes on in the courts these days!

"Cannot send him down because it would be unfair on his kids"... my backside.. he punched 3 police officers as well as spitting at a barmaid!

Oh sorry just came out... I'm not bitter at all!

[Bush Tucker Man]

Jeez, what a bunch of soft bar-stewards!

In my day we would think nothing of lifting a scrote up by his neck and pinning him to the side of the ambulance to give him advice that his personal safety might be at risk if he carry's on being a scrote interfering with the ambulance crew;

We've got a few crews who are of 'the old school' & have a story or two!

and big brown needles stabbed in the back of the hand three times as failed cannulations are a fantastic aid to the recovery of those drunks that pretend to be unconscious, you know the one's, they forceably keep there eyes shut while unconscious, even when to try to peel back the eyelid to shine in the 10 million candle vehicle torch;

And the 'letting the hand fall onto the face', a pretender won't do it (or very rarely!)

and although it wasn't strictly on the list of drugs that we carried, the most effective drug was the ammonia smelling salts on a Friday & Saturday Night, once applied to the one nostril, with the jaw firmly closed, and the other nostril occluded, many a drunk has leaped to his feet to be arrested immediately for being drunk & disorderly, ever grateful to those boys in blue.

Ammonia would get most people begging for arrest

BTW, I'm applying to become a Magistrate, and my nick name will be 'hang em high'.

Lord Chief Justice would be more appropriate